Character Analysis: Remus Lupin

[rotsiepots]

Right.

Hopefully with a more specific title, all ye Lupin fans will be reminded to stay on topic. Previous versions of the "All About Remus Lupin" threads can be found by utilising our friend the search function.

Any off-topic behaviour, or members who post links to inappropriate sites will be punished severely.

Start analysing.

[ramzk]

i dont know who oyur talking about the lupin in the movies or in the stories though i am not a big fan of his.

[Mugglelvr]

Remus Lupin is:

His character is a lot like Harry's in that the reader feels for him. He's had a hard life and faced many obstacles, yet still maintains hope and kindness to others. He is the poster child for Dumbledore's speech to Harry about choices. Lupin could have easily given up on his condition and chose to follow Voldemort instead of siding with Dumbledore. After all, Voldemort's penchant for Dark Magic might have given Lupin hope that he could be cured of his supposedly, incurable condition through Dark Magic. Yet, Lupin never gave up on siding with Dumbledore and staying true to his friends. He learned to deal with his condition in the best way he could.

He's a good man, and hopefully he can find peace with all that has happened - losing his friends because of Wormtail's betrayal - and living as an outcast in a society that looks at him as an anomaly because he doesn't fit the mold prescribed by those who make the decisions. I think Dumbledore trusts Lupin completely and has faith in who he is and what he stands for - which I believe will eventually earn Lupin much more respect in the Wizarding World.

[goldennib]

Mugglelvr - I agree with all you have said. To me he is more than just a survivor. He seems to have lost everything. Where is his family? Are they all dead or did he give them up so he wouldn't hurt them? He is not pushy. He's like Dumbledore in that. He lets people be themselves. He is very sensitive to the needs of others. They way he treated Neville was one of the things that made Lupin my favorite characters.

He will get closer to Harry because Lupin knows things that Harry needs to know about James, Lily and Sirius that only a friend from childhood would know.

He is the strong, silent type. And the big, important thing that you mentioned is what I think he embodies - hope.

He is ready to do what he feels must be done (capture/kill Sirius when he thought Sirius was guilty - same for Peter - but in each case his duty was tempered with intelligent compassion.)

He has shown that he is smart (Madame Pomfrey was suprised he knew chocolate relieved dementor stress) he's powerful (he was able to fight a dementor even in his continued weakened state) and he is shown to be forgiving (he does not hold a grudge despite the fact that Snape is worse to him than, as far as we know, Lupin ever was to Snape.)

Got to go to work now, yuck, but Lupin is my favorite character and I vote for him as the next Minister of Magic.

[Im Mental]

Well, lupin is a 'character'. I see why he has so many 'fans' here. He showed Harry kindness, and the fatherly love he never had. So we love him for that, for taking him and showing him kindness, and giving him small peeks into his parents world.
BUT, the other side of lupin is shady. Meaning, what does he do with his time. He has admited he can't find work. I'm curious how, at a school of children, he can 'forget' to take his potion, putting ALL those children in danger he was responsible for. Does he forget what he does in wolf form? Who knows what he does.
I think there is a lot more to him, and no one wants to hear this, but it might not all be good. Not saying he is a Voldy, or a DE....we know he is not fighting in the MOM against the bad side. Just saying, I hope too many people aren't shocked at what we find out later.

[Mcpherson]

Originally Posted by Im Mental

Well, lupin is a 'character'. I see why he has so many 'fans' here. He showed Harry kindness, and the fatherly love he never had. So we love him for that, for taking him and showing him kindness, and giving him small peeks into his parents world.
BUT, the other side of lupin is shady. Meaning, what does he do with his time. He has admited he can't find work. I'm curious how, at a school of children, he can 'forget' to take his potion, putting ALL those children in danger he was responsible for. Does he forget what he does in wolf form? Who knows what he does..

He forgot it because he was away from the castle and he discovered thanks to the Marauders Map that his late friend Peter is miraculously alive and with the trio. Lupin followe them because he was curious but also unsure if the kids willl be allright, espeecially when Sirius 'the killer' was nearby. So Lupin went out to save the trio, though he didn't know that it will take such a long time to 'rescue' them.

Originally Posted by Im Mental

I think there is a lot more to him, and no one wants to hear this, but it might not all be good. Not saying he is a Voldy, or a DE....we know he is not fighting in the MOM against the bad side. Just saying, I hope too many people aren't shocked at what we find out later.

Rowling feels greatly for Remus, and says he has got many common features with her. Do you think she could make herself evil? And also, it would be too much for Harry - to loose Sirius, find out that Pettigrew is a traitor of the Potters and that Lupin is a spy/evil character.

[Mrs Flamel]

Well! Here we are!

First of all, rotsiepots, I'd like to thank you for this thread. I think it will be very comfortable in here. I appreciate your listening to us (despite how annoying we may have been) and allowing a thread dedicated to our favorite werewolf, Remus J. Lupin.

So, to the members of the old AARL thread, let's take this as an opportunity to start from scratch and get some fresh opinions into our Remus discussions! Remember to keep the off-topic discussion in the Shrieking Shack. I'm glad to see we may already have some new people to talk about Remus with! Hi!

Mugglelvr, yes, Harry and Remus have a lot in common. Both are burdened with situations they didn't ask for, and both feel the need to distance themselves from others because of it. I agree with everyone who says Remus is a role model--and I believe that's exactly what JKR intended for him. He's not perfect by any means; he has made mistakes. It will be interesting to see how he learns from them and how those mistakes pan out for him later.

He is Harry's last strong link to his past. I see Remus and Harry growing closer. When they met, Remus was Harry's professor, and their relationship had to stay, well mostly, professional. Then Sirius was there, and Remus was the type to let Sirius step into his role of godfather, despite the fact that Remus knew Harry better. Now that Sirius is gone, I believe Remus is a natural choice for Harry to look to as a father figure. Other possibilities either didn't know his parents as well, or already have other roles in Harry's life (I'm thinking of Arthur, Albus, and Hagrid in particular here.)

ImMental, I want you to knwow that I for one don't mind a dissenting opinion! I also think there's alot about Remus we don't know--we'll have fun debating what that may be! Please don't feel you can't disagree with all the rampant Lupin-lovers around here. I for one love great debates.

I can't go into too much more right now, but I'll be back later to see how we're all doing.

[kingwidgit]

Originally Posted by Mrs Flamel

ImMental, I want you to knwow that I for one don't mind a dissenting opinion! I also think there's alot about Remus we don't know--we'll have fun debating what that may be! Please don't feel you can't disagree with all the rampant Lupin-lovers around here. I for one love great debates.

I have to agree. Remus is not perfect and has made mistakes. He is a human after all, and even Harry and Dumbledore make mistakes. Most of us are hoping to see Remus take on a more significant role in the HBP! I'm am currently re-reading the entire series of HP books in hopes of catching foreshadowing I may have missed.
Debate is a good thing--none of the HP characters are perfect, and true, in-depth analysis of the pros/cons of a character is what CoS forums is about, so please don't feel unwelcome to post opposing opinions.

[LinnendeBlack]

I'd also like to thank rotsiepots and the rest of the mods for opening this thread.

I agree, Harry and Remus have a lot in common, and I believe they will become quite close in the next books.

I know that not everyone from the Lyceum are here yet, but could I ask that we discuss our Remus = HBP theories? Not necessarily now but in the not so distant future? I need some food for my arguments.
Thanks everyone.

[aCiDxXxdRoP]

Thank you very much rotsiepots! I'm really sorry for being a brat. But thanks again for opening up this thread. =hands head in shame=

Remus as HBP: I don't really know. There's not much evidence that I can think of that would support or deny this theory.

I really do hope that him and Harry will become closer. He's the closest link to his parents/godfather. I just hope Harry won't be as stubborn, but instead willing to accept help and guidance. We hardly know anything about Lupin, and this would be a great opportunity to get a closer look at him and his past etc...

[urquhartfay]

hi all!

to get conversation going, i'm just gonna drag in some ideas that came up in the shrieking shack...

remus' impact on people: how does it manifest itself?

very true. even when he isn't mentioned, i find it interesting to look at the lasting effect he had on people after poa. how is harry different after his first, second, third meeting with remus? how is he different after poa? and people like dean thomas, and ron and hermione? with hermione, for example, you see her comparing the mistreatment of house elves to the mistreatment of werewolves. would she have said that before she met remus? her reaction to him in the shrieking shack tells me no. i think after getting to know remus her eyes were opened to the plight of the oppressed in an entirely new way. she was sensitized to it at the beginning of gof when she saw winky being mistreated. perhaps even at that moment she made the connection to werewolves, recalling her indignation at how remus had been treated.

any more thoughts on this? how has harry been impacted by remus, for example? we've discussed that in the shrieking shack when he stops them from killing peter, that may also be the effect of remus. earlier, he wanted to kill sirius or to have him get the dementor's kiss, and remus made him think about it. so harry's eyes, it seems, have been opened to the concept of mercy - a powerful character trait of remus.

lupin and muggle literature, or really remus and the muggle world altogether.

this is a bit more general, but being a half-blood...well, first of all, do we think he is really exactly half, i.e. that one parent was a muggle and the other magical, or half in the sense that harry is half, where his mom was a witch but of muggle heritage?

assuming the former, what kind of life would he have lead previous to hogwarts? do you think he went to muggle primary school? that would have been tough after he got the bite. how well would he know muggle culture? we've speculated he might have found work in the muggle world when the magic world shunned him. if he has had lots of dealings with the muggle world of that intensity, it would make him an ideal leader (thinking hbp... ). think of king arthur, brought up as the adopted son of a common knight, or henry v, who disguised himself and went out among his troops to see what their life and mood were like.

i'm just throwing out lots of ideas here...take whatever you like and run with it...

[hobbitseeker]

First off: YAY! I am so happy to have a Remus Lupin thread back! Thanks to rotsiepots for her kindness in reopening the thread!

I am assuming all of you former Lyceum members received the OWL from rotsiepots about this thread. I'm sure we all can be respectful towards the mods and everyone else in these forums--after all, we're here to discuss the Potterverse, not bicker amongst ourselves about outside things. I hope we can all continue to use the Shrieking Shack thread for off-topic posts.

Originally Posted by urquhartfay

hi all!

to get conversation going, i'm just gonna drag in some ideas that came up in the shrieking shack...

remus' impact on people: how does it manifest itself?
any more thoughts on this? how has harry been impacted by remus, for example? we've discussed that in the shrieking shack when he stops them from killing peter, that may also be the effect of remus. earlier, he wanted to kill sirius or to have him get the dementor's kiss, and remus made him think about it. so harry's eyes, it seems, have been opened to the concept of mercy - a powerful character trait of remus.

I also think Remus really helped Harry with his self-confidence. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Harry had ever told another adult he was afraid before he told Lupin that. Remus was trustworthy enough in Harry's eyes for Harry to be able to tell Remus very personal things like the fact that he could hear his mother screaming when the Dementors came close. And instead of just commiserating, Remus gave Harry the tools with which to conquer his own fears and find strength within himself. I think in real life we often spend so much time focusing on the sad, depressing, awful aspects of our life that we forget to look at our strengths and the good things that have happened to us. I think Remus teaching Harry the Patronus was more than just teaching a charm--it was teaching Harry to be positive, even when so much is going wrong; to find happiness and strength within himself when darkness is all around him. I think this is an important lesson, and definitely one Harry will need to draw upon in the coming books. And I think Remus will be there to help Harry cope with the death of Sirius and the pain of greiving, and also help Harry see beyond his pain and look at his future in a positve light.

[Sabine Serpente]

First of all, I would like to thank the general COS Authority for giving us this shiny new thread. Grrliz and Rotsiepots, I do hope the OWL dialogue was not annoying. I was trying my hardest to be respectful, rather than coming across like an irritating brat. Thank you for the new home!
**decorates house**

I do think that Remus had one muggle parent, and one magical. It seems fitting for him. I also think he might have attended muggle school prior to his Hogwarts education.

Regarding discussion topics: I know on Lyceum XI we were beginning to discuss the shrieking shack scene again. We could always continue that...

[Credo Buffa]

Originally Posted by urquhartfay

this is a bit more general, but being a half-blood...well, first of all, do we think he is really exactly half, i.e. that one parent was a muggle and the other magical, or half in the sense that harry is half, where his mom was a witch but of muggle heritage?

I think I'm more inclined to the latter, partially because I like to think of the parallels between Harry and Lupin, and partially because of his comment in PoA that his parents "tried everything" to find some help for his lycanthropy. . . granted, a muggle parent would be no less likely to want to help his/her son in this situation, but I somehow see them both as being magical and being able to properly search for solutions in the wizarding world (obviously, a muggle searching for help in the muggle world doesn't make a whole lot of sense).

I do like your King Arthur analogy, and it would be a particular advantage, especially for an HBP type character , to have that direct experience with muggles. . . or, as you say with Arthur, the "common" people. It was, after all, the common people who supported Arthur in the first place. . .

Oooo! So exciting! Not only do we have a Lupin thread again, but I've got the Arthurian lit background now so I feel so much more at home being able to compare Lupin's character to Arthurian myth.

[hobbitseeker]

Originally Posted by Im Mental

Well, lupin is a 'character'. I see why he has so many 'fans' here. He showed Harry kindness, and the fatherly love he never had. So we love him for that, for taking him and showing him kindness, and giving him small peeks into his parents world.
BUT, the other side of lupin is shady. Meaning, what does he do with his time. He has admited he can't find work. I'm curious how, at a school of children, he can 'forget' to take his potion, putting ALL those children in danger he was responsible for. Does he forget what he does in wolf form? Who knows what he does.
I think there is a lot more to him, and no one wants to hear this, but it might not all be good. Not saying he is a Voldy, or a DE....we know he is not fighting in the MOM against the bad side. Just saying, I hope too many people aren't shocked at what we find out later.

Hi Im Mental! Please don't worry about saying negative things about Lupin here--that's what a discussion thread is all about! You asked what Lupin does with his time. A lot of us Lupin fans believe that Lupin has a leadership role within the Order of the Phoenix. For example, he led the advance guard when they picked up Harry from Privet Drive. He also is the only Order member we know of who has a key to the house at Grimmauld Place--the other Order members have to knock. Lupin also plays a key role in the Department of Mysteries--namely, he battles Lucius Malfoy and he is the only Order member left standing at the end, and Dumbledore charges him with taking care of the other members while DD deals with Voldemort and Harry. So I think Lupin's Order duties keep him quite busy at the moment.

I think McPherson answered your second question about Lupin forgetting his potion quite well. I understand how Lupin, shocked upon seeing his dead friend Peter miraculously alive on the Marauder's Map, and then also noticing that Sirius Black was on Hogwarts grounds, would probably forget everything else at that moment in order to try to figure out what was going on and to help his students, namely Ron, Harry and Hermione, who he saw of the map. I think in his rush to help the Trio and find out how Peter managed to still be alive, the Wolfsbane potion simply slipped Remus' mind. We know Remus felt incredibly guilty about the slip, and even preemptively quit his job in order to ensure that he would never put the students in danger again. If Remus were truly 'evil', would he have quit his job? I personally think Remus is a good man--complex, yes, but not evil.

Chocolate and tea for all!

[Loup Garou]

Originally Posted by _Lynz_

I know that not everyone from the Lyceum are here yet, but could I ask that we discuss our Remus = HBP theories? Not necessarily now but in the not so distant future? I need some food for my arguments.
Thanks everyone.

Here once again is the notorious link to Elf's (and my, to a lesser degree) early ideas on this subject:

http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1288

Read all the included links in chronological order if you'd like to get a sense of the progression of the theory. As always, understand that the theory has evolved considerably beyond this point and will probably continue to do so, although that does not mean that we've discarded these concepts, merely folded them into an increasingly larger whole.

[LinnendeBlack]

Thank you Loup! I'll go and read it now.

[Remsy Luck]

Hello eevryone!
First and foremost, many thanks to rotsiepots and all the COS mods for giving us a new thread in which discuss Remus Lupin's character.
We did make mistakes and I apologise. We'll try our best to behave as we should and to not give you any more problems.

Originally Posted by urquhartfay

hi all!

to get conversation going, i'm just gonna drag in some ideas that came up in the shrieking shack...

remus' impact on people: how does it manifest itself?
any more thoughts on this? how has harry been impacted by remus, for example? we've discussed that in the shrieking shack when he stops them from killing peter, that may also be the effect of remus. earlier, he wanted to kill sirius or to have him get the dementor's kiss, and remus made him think about it. so harry's eyes, it seems, have been opened to the concept of mercy - a powerful character trait of remus.

Exactly.
To me, Harry learning the concept of mercy was one of the greatest impact Lupin had on him.
Not only Harry went from thinking Sirius deserving of the Kiss, to sparing Peter. IMHO, Peter came off as being guilty of even more of what irius was accused of (he framed one of his best friends too, and we can assume he tried to make the other pass as a traitor back in the first war).
So much worst, yet Harry granted him mercy. See what an impact Remus in fact had on him?


The part that most of all, always hit me about POA and Harry's behaviro is how he totally changed his ways around Lupin. The guarded teenager we got to knew, was ready to confide his greatest fears and weakness to a teacher he barely knew.
Remus was able to inspire immediate trust inside Harry's well guarded (and probabaly rightfully so) heart.
Remember no one else achieved that, beside Sirius.
But the big difference is that Sirius gained it by being revealed James' best friend and Harry's Godfather, while Remus gained it just by being him.
I think it0s REALLY important how Harry DIDN'T know who Remus was til after he already trusted him.

[urquhartfay]

hobbitseeker: I think Remus teaching Harry the Patronus was more than just teaching a charm--it was teaching Harry to be positive, even when so much is going wrong; to find happiness and strength within himself when darkness is all around him.

which reminds me of dd's line (in the film) where he says exactly that - that even in the darkest of times we can be happy if we turn on the light. this takes us back to remus and light/fire/candles - holding the ball of flames on the train to illuminate, lighting candles with his hands. and as someone who has suffered so much, his lighthearted, mischievious, loving approach to life proves that he is the expert in being happy in spite of adversity, finding joy in spite of the darkness.

remsyluck: But the big difference is that Sirius gained it by being revealed James' best friend and Harry's Godfather, while Remus gained it just by being him.

how true! which is why, i believe, it will be relatively natural for harry to open up to him again now that sirius is gone. he is, in fact, the more appropriate father figure (although with sirius wemust remember, harry never got a chance to get to know him before he was revealed as his godfather, so who knows, he might have opened up to him, but i think remus is way more the type.)

goodnight everyone! hitting the sack...

[Credo Buffa]

Originally Posted by Remsy Luck

The part that most of all, always hit me about POA and Harry's behaviro is how he totally changed his ways around Lupin. The guarded teenager we got to knew, was ready to confide his greatest fears and weakness to a teacher he barely knew.
Remus was able to inspire immediate trust inside Harry's well guarded (and probabaly rightfully so) heart.
Remember no one else achieved that, beside Sirius.
But the big difference is that Sirius gained it by being revealed James' best friend and Harry's Godfather, while Remus gained it just by being him.
I think it0s REALLY important how Harry DIDN'T know who Remus was til after he already trusted him.

This is a fabulous observation. Harry does tell his friends a lot, but the only person with whom we really see him going into detail about those things closest to him--his parents, his fears of the dementors, etc.--besides Sirius is Lupin. And, as you say, this is even before Harry knows about how close Lupin and his parents were. I think it really shows that 1) Harry definitely needed an adult figure in his life that he could go to with these deeper issues, and 2) Lupin not only fits that role, but is apparently pretty good at it, or Harry wouldn't continue to look to him.

Harry was sort of at that point in PoA, and is now again that Sirius is gone, where he had a choice as to who he might attach himself to as far as adult figures in his life, and he definitely had a few options: Mr. and Mrs Weasley and Dumbledore, in particular. But even without any prior connections, Lupin became that person for quite a long time until Sirius came along.

Lupin apparently has something that Harry needed in an adult figure that he couldn't find with the other adults in his life. Part of it is undoubtedly Lupin's sympathetic nature, his willingness to listen, and his ability to give practical aid, but not to solve his problems for him. But I think there's probably the deeper connection which you allude to, Remsy, which is much more evident in retrospect but I think still brought them together in the first place. Not only is there that connection with Harry's parents, but the fact that they have a lot of other things in common as well: losing the same people to Voldemort, feeling and being treated like outcasts for most of their lives, and struggling to overcome those obstacles just to try and lead a more-or-less normal life, which is what I think they both want when it comes right down to it. I think that's a big part of that "unspoken" connection that brought Harry to Lupin in the first place.