Who Will Fall in Love with Whom? V2 #3

[grrliz]

Originally Posted by ikuko

{from previous version of Love Thread}

****ought long and hard.>
<decided to go her English teacher and demand her money back>
<not to forget the professor of formal logic>
Hey, I will be in money!

ikuko you are recieving the mandatory two warning points and ten-day love thread ban for violating the Central Rule of the Love Thread. It is absolutely unnecessary and quite offensive to imply that those who believe in a ship that you don't support are lacking in English reading skills or the ability to be logical.

Your ten-day ban starts now, and you can post again in the Love Thread on June 16 at 10:04am EST. If you post before then, you will recieve a further two warning points and a second ten-day ban.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by erynae

Ron's insecurity is one reason why R/Hr wouldn't work. I don't see how Ron could cope if he was in a relationship with a girl who was always achieving higher than he was.

But Ron hasn’t shown any insecurity towards Hermione achieving higher than he does. He seems to be proud of her most of the time. He tells her she’s brilliant, etc… Most of Hermione’s high achievements are with school and Ron doesn’t show the same insecurity with schoolwork. I think some of his insecurities are going to be dealt with. There has already been a big change in him, particularly after Fred and George left school. I think the Weasley’s financial situation will improve since they only have Ron and Ginny to provide for now. Ron is becoming more mature and becoming more of his own person and not just another Weasley. I feel that will be a big part of him finally admitting how he feels about Hermione.

However, I don’t think this would extend to his friendship with Harry if Hermione and Harry were to become a couple. I don’t think he would be comfortable being around them because of his feelings for Hermione. I think that would just be too much for him to deal with.

Originally Posted by erynae

If R/Hr happened, I don't see the trio remaining intact at all. Remember how Harry reacted when he learnt that they spent the summer together without him? Do you think he could cope with that for the rest of his life?

Harry was not upset because they spent the summer together having fun without him. He was upset because he was completely cut off from the wizarding world. He wanted NEWS. He had been reduced to hiding in the flowerbed under the window to listen to the muggle news in hopes of finding out what was going on with Voldemort. They were writing him letters but answering none of his questions and not volunteering any information about what was going on. They were together, in the thick of things, able to find out what was happening, and they weren’t telling him anything. He was furious about that and felt left out because of that NOT because they were having fun without him.

Ron and Hermione spend time without Harry quite frequently, IMO. Throughout the books there are many references to Harry coming back to the common room to find them playing chess or talking. These things don’t bother him. Harry has shown absolutely NO romantic interest in Hermione IMO. He seems to be aware that Ron and Hermione like each other and is not bothered by it at all. If Ron and Hermione become a couple they would still be there to support him.

Originally Posted by erynae

That's why H/Hr, R/L and last but not least N/G work so well - none of the sextet is without a partner. That'll come in handy when they go to Hogsmeade. Oh yes, I can see the triple dates now.

What intrigues me is when JKR sunk Neville/Luna - this ship was one that was shipped by a majority of R/Hr's + H/G's so they too could have triple dates and it would fit so nice and snugly - but yet, she didn't sink N/G or R/L, which are both alongside pairings to H/Hr.

I’m not sure I’m understanding your point here. Are you saying they should choose their LI based on whether or not they can have triple dates? That doesn’t make any sense. Harry and Hermione don’t work because they are just friends. There are no romantic feelings between them, IMO. At this point, there is no indication that Harry has a romantic interest in anyone now that his “relationship” with Cho is over. There is all kinds of canon evidence to support that Ron and Hermione have feelings for each other. JKR sunk the Neville/Luna ship when she was asked about it. I don’t think she would directly say anything about Ron and Luna or Harry and Ginny because that would give away who will end up with Hermione.

Originally Posted by erynae

We differ here then. I think that Cho was indeed jealous of Hermione - who wouldn't be jealous of Hermione, when she is so close to Harry? And the point that Harmonians make isn't Cho being jealous itself, it's how Harry responded to her jealousy. Harry completely defended her, and placed Hermione above Cho, who was meant to be his LI.

Who wouldn’t be jealous of Hermione being close to Harry? Someone who understands that they are only friends. And I have seen several posts that make a big deal of the fact that Cho was “jealous” of Hermione and Viktor was “jealous” of Harry. It just doesn’t play for me. Cho obviously had ulterior motives and wanted to talk about Cedric. She was annoyed when Harry told her that he had agreed to meet Hermione that day. She only became angry when she found out that Harry had talked to Ron and Hermione about Cedric. Viktor wasn’t that jealous because he was completely satisfied by Harry’s assurance that Hermione was just his friend. The other time that Cho shows “jealousy” she is trying to justify Marietta’s actions and relieve her own guilt. Harry’s reaction is not surprising at all. In the first instance he is just confused. Hermione is his friend and he doesn’t understand why Cho is upset that he agreed for both of them to meet her. In the second instance he is angry with Marietta for turning them in and angry with Cho for defending Marietta and attacking Hermione, his friend. There was no justification for what Marietta did and attacking Hermione was childish on Cho’s part. Doesn’t seem at all strange to me. Harry defended his friend and called Cho on her childish behavior. That doesn’t mean that he is secretly in love with Hermione. Also, at this point, their “relationship” is pretty much over. This occurs after their date.

Originally Posted by erynae

Well, obviously she couldn't possibly know every little detail that happened on their date, but as I said on the previous thread, even Crabbe and Goyle could suss out how the date went - and Hermione is way above their intellect, so why should she have to ask?

Why would it be obvious? Harry didn’t tell anyone about it. He didn’t mention it when he showed up at The Three Broomsticks and she didn’t ask. There are many possible explanations as to why Cho didn’t show up with him. She could have gone to meet with other friends. We know why she didn’t come with him but why would Hermione just assume that the date went badly? She asked later because she had forgotten about the date. Hermione gets very wrapped up in her “projects”. She was focused on getting Harry’s story out and they succeeded. She is in a very good mood and very pleased at their success and she remembers that Harry had a date and asks him how it went. Again, I fail to see any significance in these events other than they are good friends.

Originally Posted by erynae

If there is such a lack of development with her so called relationship with Ron a year after the Yule Ball, wouldn't one think that it's time to move on? Although I hate to say this, but Hermione could parallel Ginny here - Ginny gave up on Harry, Hermione gave up on Ron.

Well, I do see some development since the Yule Ball. It is just going very slowly, which would be frustrating. Ron has shown jealousy. He gave her perfume – I believe he did this to show that he does see her as a girl. She in turn gave him a signal by kissing him and he had a definite reaction to that kiss. They are bickering less and agreeing more. I think that Hermione does have feelings for Ron and believes that he has feelings for her but she is not sure. Hermione doesn’t like to act on anything unless she is completely sure. That’s why she spends so much time in the library. She generally won’t even tell Ron and Harry what she’s up to until she has all the facts in order. She also understands Ron very well and knows that he has insecurities he needs to deal with. I think the same is true for Ron. He likes Hermione but isn’t sure if she likes him as well. He is not sure if her relationship with Viktor is more than friendship. He is unsure of himself and possibly even wonders if he is “good enough” for her. This is just my opinion.

I don’t think you can compare Ginny’s crush on Harry to Ron and Hermione having feelings for each other. Ginny’s had a crush on the “famous Harry Potter”. She didn’t really know who he was. As she has gotten to know him she no longer has a crush on him. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t like him or they couldn’t date in the future. It only means that she no longer has a crush on him. I’m not saying that I think Harry and Ginny will get together. I’m just saying that Ginny’s crush was different from what is going on with Ron and Hermione. I don’t think either of them has a crush. I think they have stronger feelings than that. They know each other very well. Why should Hermione give up when Ron is sending out so many signals that he does like her?

[Jibran]

I also agree to it. I believe that Ron and Hermione are meant to be. I am not too sure of Harry though. A recent news about Arthur A. Levine saying that HBP is not as dark at OotP, also contained a little spoiler of "Love is in the air". I believe that this is a sure pointer to Ron and Hermione pairing up, as nothing about their ship was touched at in OotP. Here is the article

Another ship which I would think is canon, ought to be Fleur and Bill Weasley and perhaps Draco and Pansy, but I doubt that!

[cerussite]

Originally Posted by meesha1971

He likes Hermione but isn’t sure if she likes him as well. He is not sure if her relationship with Viktor is more than friendship. He is unsure of himself and possibly even wonders if he is “good enough” for her. This is just my opinion.

I think they have stronger feelings than that. They know each other very well. Why should Hermione give up when Ron is sending out so many signals that he does like her?

If we can debate this much about what Hermione is feeling then I think we can have some sympathy for Ron. And we don't even have to be worried or insecure about whether or not Hermione will say no, it's not as if we are asking her for a date.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

So, here we are again. A new Love Thread. A new start. Time to explain why I support what I support.

Hermione/Ron: This has always been what I've shipped. I'm accustom to it, because whenever I talk about it (with HS friends) it's always Hermione likes Ron. They see it, I see it. JKR's quotes are helpful (and just her being JKR is enough for me to know she's not leading me wrong). I started officially shipping in GOF. And after rereading, I could see little bits that made me think, "Aww" toward the ship. I do not think Hermione likes Harry. And I do not think that if Heron doesn't happen, that Harmony automatically will, because--

Harry/Ginny: Yes, Harry's ships are never "obvious" or never have really over-whelming Brawl Scenes were someone gets the point and the other is left in the dark. I've just read an awesome editorial about this ship and it's literally huge! Here's the link you can find it at: http://www.sugarquill.net/index.php?...s&st=hglovered . No, I did not write it, I only enjoyed it thoroughly (and muggleview actually brought it to my attention, so thanks mate !) It, to me, proves that Ginny is not just there--she is noticed by Harry, she can share things with Harry, Harry has described her in flattering terms, Harry has noticed things that he shouldn't have if she was just Ron's little sister. Check it out! It is seriously an awesome article.

But here are my main reasons for Chocolate:

What Harry Wants

In shipping preference, I want Harry to be happy. Do I think he can be happy with someone that nags him all the time and that pushes him away? No. Do I think he can be happy with someone that has interest that Harry could care less about? No. Do I think he can be happy with someone who he can be level with, understand, have fun with, be a part of something with, enjoy life with, joke with, listen to, be helpful to him? Yes. And to me, Ginny is this. Ginny knows how to reach Harry, she knows how he's thinking and she knows when he really, truly, needs her help. Ginny has a family Harry admires and wishes he could be a part of. Ginny has been brought up with the same laughter and humor that Harry loved in the twins, and he values in people. Ginny has gone through an ordeal and understands Harry's encounters with LV; Harry only delt with him for a day each year--Ginny had to deal with him a whole year, and she's still affected by it. These factors, and so much more, bring out that Ginny could be the best for Harry, and that she will get her chance.

Romantic Build-up

There is no denying that Ginny has been linked to romance throughout the series. In book 2 she has a shy-school-girl feeling for Harry, stands up for him stating he didn't want the attention [this shows it wasn't a fangirl, and that she knew Harry hated the fame] and is called his girlfriend, with no negative reaction from Harry. In book 3, she is still "very taken" with him and shows that through her feelings, she can still laugh and show her personality [admiring the Twins]. In book 4/5: She's going to the ball with Neville--would rather go with Harry--meets Michael, things do not work good at the ball with Neville (at least, that's what Harry's perspective was), starts dating Michael at the end of her third year, gives up on Harry, breaks up with Michael, who gets with Cho, then makes a side comment (vaguely) about Dean, when Ron suggests Harry/Ginny. You may want to bring up Hermione/Harry and the fiasco in book 4, but Harry's response was NO. JKR's response: They are platonic! That, to me, is enough. Ginny, however, has been linked with romance, unnecessarily, and it has yet to be resolved.

Again, I really want to let you all know how great this article is: http://www.sugarquill.net/index.php?...s&st=hglovered

Check it out! No matter what you ship (though especially if you're a Chocolateer) read this! Understand that Harry notices Ginny, and sees her. That he has felt hopeful because of her, that he faced death for her, and that he knows how he should treat her. All of this and more is covered in that article, and before you question me, read it! (I will admit that it is a monstrous article, but it's worth the hour you put into reading it.) Give Chocolate a shot.

[MadameSparks]

Originally Posted by erynae
Ron's insecurity is one reason why R/Hr wouldn't work. I don't see how Ron could cope if he was in a relationship with a girl who was always achieving higher than he was.

While Hermione surpasses Ron in areas of classwork, Ron surpasses Hermione in many other areas. Ron, once his confidence was ready, is a skilled Quidditch player. Hermione hardly ever flies. Hermione has YET to beat Ron at wizards chess. Ron has a closer knit family than Hermione. Ron has a better sense of humor (or is more at ease making jokes and finding more humor in other situations). Hermione may have Ron in book smarts but there are other areas where Ron surpasses her or they are equal. People have their strengths and weaknesses and having matching strengths is not a prerequisite for a relationship.

This overused claim that Ron insecurities will keep Heron from happening is without grounding in the text. Hermione exhibits as much insecurity as Ron does, just in other areas and in different ways. I mean her BIGGEST fear is failure...or rather lack of perfection (boggart).

Every character in this book has insecurities. Harry fears his friends judging him (note his quick temper to assume Hermione is talking about him behind his back with Lavendar , or to jump at Seamus for his mother's opinion, without finding if it's Seamus's opinion as well). Neville is insecure about performing well. Draco is insecure about meeting his fathers approval. Humans at that age are by nature insecure. They are testing out the waters and trying to find what they will latch on to...and in the meantime they are a bit adrift.

I also find it unfouded to claim Ron would feel insecure over Hermione's superior GRADES (book smarts, not street smarts as Hermione herself points out) when Ron doesn't care about grades. Sure he cares to the extent of passing or keeping his grades up enough to not get in trouble with his parents, but to say that he longs for good grades or is jealous of Hermy's is not Ron's character.

Originally Posted by erynae
That's why H/Hr, R/L and last but not least N/G work so well - none of the sextet is without a partner. That'll come in handy when they go to Hogsmeade. Oh yes, I can see the triple dates now.

What's wrong with Hr/R, H/G, N/other, Luna/other? And why MUST everyone be coupled? I have a hard time thinking they're going to worry much about "triple dates" during the next two years. And as "the wizarding world is really at war" in books 6 and 7, who's to say that Hogsmeades visits will still be allowed? Having a partner is not the end all be all of these children's lives and not all the characters need a complimentary character. Remember this is a book and pairings will be made as they benefit the story, not b/c they'd be cute or it'd be nice for everyone to be paired. Why does Luna need a partner? Why does Neville need a partner? I'd love to see Neville develop his strength from inside and not have a partner until the epilogue.....to become a whole person and not rely on a girl to make him "complete"

Oh and also....I highly doubt that Ron would pair up with someone whom he thinks says "the dumbest things I ever heard in my life."

[physis]

Oh and also....I highly doubt that Ron would pair up with someone whom he thinks says "the dumbest things I ever heard in my life."

as opposed to what hermione thinks about a lot of stuff that comes from ron's mouth?

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Originally Posted by physis

as opposed to what hermione thinks about a lot of stuff that comes from ron's mouth?

Could you give examples of what you mean? If we're going for what people think of other people's statemens, do you want us to bring up how many times Harry gets mad about her nagging, or lies or avoids confrontation? I may be young, but I certainly don't see how that could lead to a happy and healthy relationship, when Hermione can't help Harry the way others can.

[Gurkha_Girl]

hi. Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but something really made me think the other day when I was re-reading Ootp. When Harry and Sirius are looking at the black's family tree in Grimmauld place, Sirius tells Harry that theres hardly any pure-blood families left..etc. At the end of his sentence, he mentions that 'if ever a family was a bunch of blood traitors, its the Weasleys.' I didnt think anything of it at first, but then i was thinking...perhaps this is foreshadowing Ron and Ginny's relationships. I mean, if Ron ends up with Hermione, wouldnt he be a blood traitor because she's muggle-born? Also with Ginny and Harry obviously, because he's a half-blood.

Or perhaps, maybe, it might mean that Ron and Ginny will keep up the pure-blood families by Ron getting with Luna, and ginny with neville. (Neville and Luna are both pure-bloods right?)

i dont know if this is significant, I'm just trying to think of new evidence for some ships because it's the same all the time. Sorry again if this has been mentioned before.

By the way, im a Harry Hermione shipper...and i'm hoping this means that ron and ginny will not be blood traitors, which gives me some hope for H/Hr, though the sentence still gets to me. Lol.

Anyway, I hope you've understood my post, im not usually very good at this.

Lyndsey.

[MadameSparks]

Originally Posted by physis

as opposed to what hermione thinks about a lot of stuff that comes from ron's mouth?

When you have canon to support this, please give it. However as we don't KNOW what hermione thinks as we don't read her thoughts this is highly unlikely. I don't have the exact page as my books at home, perhaps someone could help me out with the OotP page number, but it's in the chapter Percy and Padfoot (right after Detention with Umbridge) I believe where Ron says that something Sirius (i believe sirius says it) says is the dumest thing he's ever heard, and that's including everything Luna says. SO while someone can make a comment which tops the stupid things luna says (in ron's opinion) he lumps ALL of the things she says together and marks them as severely dumb.

Unfortunatly there doesn't seem to be an evidence that Hermione categorizes Ron and everything he says as severly dumb. But if you can find canon for it, that'd be interesting. I don't even think when they're arguing she says anything like that. And most CERTAINLY doesn't speak about Ron behind his back saying to others that everything he says is stupid. But if you can find it, more power to you.

[rowansjet]

Originally Posted by cerussite

Question. If a character dies while in a relationship with another character (even though they are only 16/17/18), do you consider that ending up with some one, even if they move on to some one else in the long run.

I.E Hermione goes out with Ron... Ron dies while still in a relationship with Hermione, in the epilogue we find out Hermione married Harry had 50 kids and lived happily ever after.

Do you consider that she ended up with both or just Harry, or do you say Ron ended up with Hermione but Hermione ended up with Harry. Or maybe you claim it was always meant to be Ron etc.

I would say she ended up with both of them.

So the question is: Will you change ships if your desired preference does not come to fruition after HBP?

Well, I'm still fairly sure that Ron/Hermione won't get together until book seven, but if there was no development, and they got feelings for other people, and showed evidence that they didn't have feelings for each other anymore, then I would jump ship.

With Harry/Luna, because of the comments about Harry having a little romance in this book, I'm gonna say that the person he fancies in this book will be the one he goes out with. If he starts dating Ginny and they still have feelings for each other at the end of the book, I'll go over to chocolate.

Originally Posted by erynae

That's why H/Hr, R/L and last but not least N/G work so well - none of the sextet is without a partner. That'll come in handy when they go to Hogsmeade. Oh yes, I can see the triple dates now.

Well the same goes for R/Hr, H/L and N/G.

Also Deevo, those Potter Puppet Pal Pairs are adorable.

[cerussite]

Originally Posted by Gurkha_Girl

hi. Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but something really made me think the other day when I was re-reading Ootp. When Harry and Sirius are looking at the black's family tree in Grimmauld place, Sirius tells Harry that theres hardly any pure-blood families left..etc. At the end of his sentence, he mentions that 'if ever a family was a bunch of blood traitors, its the Weasleys.' I didnt think anything of it at first, but then i was thinking...perhaps this is foreshadowing Ron and Ginny's relationships. I mean, if Ron ends up with Hermione, wouldnt he be a blood traitor because she's muggle-born? Also with Ginny and Harry obviously, because he's a half-blood.

Or perhaps, maybe, it might mean that Ron and Ginny will keep up the pure-blood families by Ron getting with Luna, and ginny with neville. (Neville and Luna are both pure-bloods right?)

i dont know if this is significant, I'm just trying to think of new evidence for some ships because it's the same all the time. Sorry again if this has been mentioned before.

By the way, im a Harry Hermione shipper...and i'm hoping this means that ron and ginny will not be blood traitors, which gives me some hope for H/Hr, though the sentence still gets to me. Lol.

Anyway, I hope you've understood my post, im not usually very good at this.

Lyndsey.

Even though I am a Heron and Chocolate shipper, I wouldn't worry about that. Ron and Ginny aren't the sort to make their decisions based on what type of blood some one has. And I highly doubt that JK was thinking of shipping then

I would be more concerned about Harry and Hermione's communication issues, Harrys non-romantic feelings after so long of knowing Hermione through thick and thin, pretty and plain, life and death, and of course Ron

[MadameSparks]

I mean, if Ron ends up with Hermione, wouldnt he be a blood traitor because she's muggle-born? Also with Ginny and Harry obviously, because he's a half-blood.

As "blood traitor" is the opinion of a very bad witch and a house elf gone bad...Sirius's mother being one who supported (although not activly, it is said "she thought V had the right idea") Voldemort....I don't think we're supposed to think of blood traitors as being a bad thing. To say this is to share sentiments with racists who don't believe in interracial relationships. The pure blood/half blood in this book is used as another way to show racial division and harmony. During slavery and for decades following interracial relationships were looked down on in the US....So much so that if your great grandfather was black, you were labeled an "octoroon" (1/8th black) and were not given full legal rights. If you have tracable muggle blood in your heritage you are considered "not pure."

People who hold this mindset are not to be admired. And people who think properly and were raised without bigotry and hate being apart of their lives (the weasley's as opposed to the Malfoys) will not make matches trying to make themselves more pureblood. They'll marry where their heart is.

[erynae]

Originally Posted by rowansjet

Well the same goes for R/Hr, H/L and N/G.

It's great to think of it, isn't it? Sorry, I know this doesn't add to the debate, it's just my love for fluffiness. Back when I ship the above things ^^, that's what attracted me to it. It's been quite a while since I shipped Moonlight. Then I went over to Chocolate. And then I went over to Harmony and Red Moon. And here I am.

[DagnytheDaft]

On the previous page, someone queried whether folks would jump ship based on where HBP goes. My answer is yes, but it has to be done well and I think it has to be done well based on what JKR has written so far. I ship Chocolate and Heron. For Heron, in particular, JKR has IMO pretty clearly written what she intends us to interpret as "Ron has feelings for Hermione." You can argue Hermione and Harry's feelings as much as you like (I have my own opinion, but it doesn't matter for this post), but Ron either has feelings for Hermione (and I believe he does) or JKR wants us to think he does (...or both, of course). He's been protective of her since CoS (he spewed slugs for her, afterall), he's shown jealousy of Viktor in GoF and OotP, and he gives her perfume for Christmas in OotP. He also reacted in a classic infatuated manner after she gave him the pre-Quidditch kiss in OotP (I associate his reaction with the Brady Bunch as I think one of those kids reacted that way to a cheek-peck in one episode--but it's been about 25 years since I watch BB so, I could be wrong). So in a nut shell, I'm fairly confident that JKR has written Ron to have feeling for Hermione or else has intentionally planted a giant red herring. I don't believe that the way she has written Ron can be explained away as just friendly/brotherly interest in particular because the perfume, pre-Quidditch kiss response, and jealousy don't seem to serve any other plot purpose.

So, if it is a red herring, then she'll reveal the red herring with some explanation as to why she led us to believe Ron likes Hermione and what the misleading points really mean (by the end of GoF we were quite clear on what all the red herrings in that book meant, right down to Ludo's trouble with the goblins).

But if it isn't a red herring then she needs to resolve Ron's feelings for Hermione one way or another. She has various options, including, but not limited to 1) Casting off anchor on the Good Ship Heron 2) Killing off Ron 3) Turning Ron evil so Hermione can not love him 4) Causing a schism amongst the trio if H/Hr happens 5) Settling Ron's feelings in some other way such as a new LI for him. Items 2, 3, & 5 could clear the way for H/Hr, but don't have to.

I won't know for a fact how JKR'll resolve this without more canon, but I am comfortable with my ships. But more importantly than that, I am confident that JKR'll resolve Ron's feelings in some way and in so doing that she'll bring me along with her story when the time comes. If Ron loses interest in Hermione, then I'll see it happen and how it happens and be comfortable with it and the resulting outcomes.

[redhanded]

ok, i'm new on this thread so if I sound stupid or incompetent please forgive me! I've posted on some other threads before but only just plucked up the courage to post on this one, because, quite frankly, its a bit scary!

I never realised 'shipping' was such a big thing or that there were so many 'ships'. Just from the simple perspective of having read the books (many times) I always assumed that R/Hr would stop pulling pigtails and get together eventually, and I've always liked the idea of Harry and Ginny ending up together, just because she seems to suit him, and well... I like it! It would round everything off very neatly, although having read the incredibly well argued and text supported arguments on this thread I will readily admit that 'I like it' is not a very good basis for an argument! As for Harry/Hermione, I just have never seen it even having spent the last couple of weeks reading the LT and the arguments in it, I've always seen Harry/Hermione canon as evidence of an incredibly strong bond of 'friendship and trust' to quote Dumbledore and nothing more.

However, I do have a theory why Heron (see, i'm even using the lingo!) would work better than Harmony, and that is this:

Firstly, the incredibly strong friendship of the trio is fundamental to the plot, we've seen before that Harry functions much worse without the support of his friends. I can't see JKR jeopardising this, given that romance, in whatever form it takes, is a sub-plot to the main individual sub-plots of books 6 and 7, which are then another sub-plot to the main plot which is Harry's ongoing conflict with Voldemort. I just can't see her breaking up the trio in anyway that would jeopardise Harry's support. Even if you only consider that the trio's wands are made up of the 3 Ollivander wand cores, dragon-heartstring, unicorn hair and pheonix feather, the trio match and complement each other, and they work best when they use each other's skills, their individual weaknesses are compensated for by the other's strengths.


Currently, it seems to me that Ron likes Hermione even if its onily in an adolescent, immature way. Hermione there issome question over - personally, I think she likes Ron, and is waiting for him to grow up and realise it, but I fully accept that there is a huge amount of dispute on this and some think she likes Harry. So Hermione's feelings are unclear. I've read nothing that indicates to me that Harry likes Hermione though, the only thing i've ever read that convinced me that Harry liked *anyone* was his perspective on Cho.

So the current situation, to me, is as follows:

Ron fancies Hermione
Hermione (?)
Harry likes Hermninone but doesn't fancy her (and doesn't *obviously* fancy anyone else the way he fancied Cho)

So, with regard the trio - here are the two options (there are actually three but i don't think I dare suggest that Hermione will end up single!)

1) H/Hr
2) R/Hr

So what would happen to the trio's friendship?

1) I can see this being a real problem, I think its clear to the reader that Ron likes Hermione, imagine his reaction if the famous Harry Potter, who has everything (aside from a prefect's badge) suddenly gets the girl he likes too. Given Ron's emotional immaturity (don't scream at me, I love Ron for his honesty and loyalty but to me he is emotionally immature) I can see this driving a real wedge into the trio, not just between Ron and Hermione but between Ron and Harry too. This could be absolutely disastrous, both for Ron, who would be miserable, isolated and lonely, but potentially disastrous for the main plot, we saw what Harry was like in GoF without Ron's friendship, and that was before Voldemort returned, now I don't think he'd be able to deal with it, not with everything else that has happened to him

2) R/Hr

Harry doesn't like Hermione, Ron likes Hermione, hermione we're unsure of. If hermione turns out to like Ron, and they get together, what would happen to the trio? Nothing, in my opinion. Yes it'd be a bit awkward for Harry at first, but he'd get over it, and more importantly it wouldn't affect the fact that both of his friends are there for him when he needs them and as Ron and Hermione act like a bickering couple anyway, I don't think it would even make group dynamics that different. Would Harry be isolated? I don't think so, I don't think that Hermione and Ron would abandon Harry for each other, (note, I don't think Harry and Hermione would abandon Ron for each other either, but I think that Ron would be less able to cope with it himself, than Harry is) plus the fact that Harry's got a bit more to be thinking about right now.

Its for this reason, and the 'sense' I get from the books (which I think, fundamnetally is all the debate is really about when it boils down to it) that I think and hope that it will be Heron that sails in book 6 and 7 and not Harmony. Having said that, so long as the trio remain happy (single or paired off!) I'll be happy. Hope that wasn't too stupid!

P.S. Roll on July 16th!

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by redhanded

ok, i'm new on this thread so if I sound stupid or incompetent please forgive me! I've posted on some other threads before but only just plucked up the courage to post on this one, because, quite frankly, its a bit scary!

I never realised 'shipping' was such a big thing or that there were so many 'ships'. Just from the simple perspective of having read the books (many times) I always assumed that R/Hr would stop pulling pigtails and get together eventually, and I've always liked the idea of Harry and Ginny ending up together, just because she seems to suit him, and well... I like it! It would round everything off very neatly, although having read the incredibly well argued and text supported arguments on this thread I will readily admit that 'I like it' is not a very good basis for an argument! As for Harry/Hermione, I just have never seen it even having spent the last couple of weeks reading the LT and the arguments in it, I've always seen Harry/Hermione canon as evidence of an incredibly strong bond of 'friendship and trust' to quote Dumbledore and nothing more.

However, I do have a theory why Heron (see, i'm even using the lingo!) would work better than Harmony, and that is this:

Firstly, the incredibly strong friendship of the trio is fundamental to the plot, we've seen before that Harry functions much worse without the support of his friends. I can't see JKR jeopardising this, given that romance, in whatever form it takes, is a sub-plot to the main individual sub-plots of books 6 and 7, which are then another sub-plot to the main plot which is Harry's ongoing conflict with Voldemort. I just can't see her breaking up the trio in anyway that would jeopardise Harry's support. Even if you only consider that the trio's wands are made up of the 3 Ollivander wand cores, dragon-heartstring, unicorn hair and pheonix feather, the trio match and complement each other, and they work best when they use each other's skills, their individual weaknesses are compensated for by the other's strengths.


Currently, it seems to me that Ron likes Hermione even if its onily in an adolescent, immature way. Hermione there issome question over - personally, I think she likes Ron, and is waiting for him to grow up and realise it, but I fully accept that there is a huge amount of dispute on this and some think she likes Harry. So Hermione's feelings are unclear. I've read nothing that indicates to me that Harry likes Hermione though, the only thing i've ever read that convinced me that Harry liked *anyone* was his perspective on Cho.

So the current situation, to me, is as follows:

Ron fancies Hermione
Hermione (?)
Harry likes Hermninone but doesn't fancy her (and doesn't *obviously* fancy anyone else the way he fancied Cho)

So, with regard the trio - here are the two options (there are actually three but i don't think I dare suggest that Hermione will end up single!)

1) H/Hr
2) R/Hr

So what would happen to the trio's friendship?

1) I can see this being a real problem, I think its clear to the reader that Ron likes Hermione, imagine his reaction if the famous Harry Potter, who has everything (aside from a prefect's badge) suddenly gets the girl he likes too. Given Ron's emotional immaturity (don't scream at me, I love Ron for his honesty and loyalty but to me he is emotionally immature) I can see this driving a real wedge into the trio, not just between Ron and Hermione but between Ron and Harry too. This could be absolutely disastrous, both for Ron, who would be miserable, isolated and lonely, but potentially disastrous for the main plot, we saw what Harry was like in GoF without Ron's friendship, and that was before Voldemort returned, now I don't think he'd be able to deal with it, not with everything else that has happened to him

2) R/Hr

Harry doesn't like Hermione, Ron likes Hermione, hermione we're unsure of. If hermione turns out to like Ron, and they get together, what would happen to the trio? Nothing, in my opinion. Yes it'd be a bit awkward for Harry at first, but he'd get over it, and more importantly it wouldn't affect the fact that both of his friends are there for him when he needs them and as Ron and Hermione act like a bickering couple anyway, I don't think it would even make group dynamics that different. Would Harry be isolated? I don't think so, I don't think that Hermione and Ron would abandon Harry for each other, (note, I don't think Harry and Hermione would abandon Ron for each other either, but I think that Ron would be less able to cope with it himself, than Harry is) plus the fact that Harry's got a bit more to be thinking about right now.

Its for this reason, and the 'sense' I get from the books (which I think, fundamnetally is all the debate is really about when it boils down to it) that I think and hope that it will be Heron that sails in book 6 and 7 and not Harmony. Having said that, so long as the trio remain happy (single or paired off!) I'll be happy. Hope that wasn't too stupid!

P.S. Roll on July 16th!

That was very well said! I agree with everything you said except for one thing. I don't think Harry would have any problem with Ron and Hermione becoming a couple and wouldn't need to adjust to anything. Harry doesn't have any romantic feelings towards Hermione so it wouldn't be an issue. I think he already realizes that they like each other and is fine with it.

[redhanded]

thanks

I didn't mean it as in Harry would have a problem with Ron/Hr, merely that it would take a little adjustment, I mean, its all very well thinking of your two best friends as being together already, but its different from them *acutally* being together and walking in on them kissing, for example

[Kinem]

Do you think Ron and Hermione would have problems if Hermione continued to give Harry the attention she does? He does have a jealous streak.

Just a thought

[shmink]

Originally Posted by Kinem

Do you think Ron and Hermione would have problems if Hermione continued to give Harry the attention she does? He does have a jealous streak.

Just a thought

Since I don't see Hermione's attention toward Harry as anything over and above her typical care and concern for him, as one of her best friends who is constantly in danger - no, I don't think Ron would be jealous. He has not shown any signs of jealousy thus far.