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James' and Lily's Professions



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  #1  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 4:29 am
navygreen  Female.gif navygreen is offline
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James' and Lily's Professions

Discussion for James' and Lily's Professions by Amy.


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  #2  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 5:02 am
The LionHeart  Female.gif The LionHeart is offline
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The fourth paragraph seems to suggest that James was working undercover for Voldemort and his plans with the COS if indeed he was employed as the DADA teacher. Can someone clarify this for me?


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  #3  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 5:06 am
loopylikeluna  Female.gif loopylikeluna is offline
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Amy, this was really good, a topic I had just never considered. Two things came to mind though: in the PoA movie Aunt Petunia tells Aunt Marge that James was unemployed, and if this was not true I would think JKR would object to that being included as it's misleading - unless James only taught for a short time or Petunia didn't know that he ever did. The other thing is the mention that Flitwick was not supposed to collect the papers as a teacher - my first thought on this is that it was a mistake on JKR's part, or it was okay because Flitwick was not DADA teacher (although it would make sense if he was because he's such a good dueller), or back then they didn't have such stringent anti-cheating procedures. But then I changed my mind. It makes perfect sense for Flitwick to have been an examiner at some point - even a DADA examiner, the dueller that he was. If this was fifth year, Dumbledore is Headmaster, McGonagall is Transfiguration teacher, and if Flitwick was not Charms teacher, then someone else must have filled the roles of Charms and DADA teachers - neither of which can be James or Lily, as they are both still learning the content in school. So who filled these posts, and why haven't they come back? If Flitwick is a potential DADA teacher, why is he teaching Charms? Perhaps the teachers at this time were trusted by Dumbledore and consequently died in Voldemort's first reign; James and Lily filled in for a few months-years but they died too; Snape applied to fill DADA (if James could do it, he could do it better) but was put as Potions; a random (potentially cursed) teacher filled DADA after James's death and Flitwick was called in to fill Charms. It does all make sense. Perhaps it's a bit too complicated for JKR to feature it. But I like it nevertheless. Very well done.
PS. Hi buttonmommy1998!


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  #4  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 5:10 am
Solembum230
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Ooh, I never thought of that! That's a really good guess, especially because it's important that Lily excelled in charms. Plus, Flitwick's not working at Hogwarts during that time is good support.
They would be pretty young for teachers, though, and it seems like their jobs were more dangerous.



Last edited by Solembum230; July 3rd, 2005 at 7:48 am.
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  #5  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 5:12 am
loopylikeluna  Female.gif loopylikeluna is offline
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You're right, The LionHeart, it does seem to imply that James worked undercover for Voldemort as DADA. That doesn't seem very likely. Amy, can you clarify this?


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  #6  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 5:12 am
lizztigger  Female.gif lizztigger is offline
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This was a really well written article, but I still don't agree with the theory that Harry's parents were Hogwarts proffesors. It's hard to believe that if some of Harry's teachers worked with Lilly and James they wouldn't have said anything, even in passing to Harry, or mentioned it when they were in The Three Broomsticks in POA, they talked about Lilly and James when they were in school. Also Lilly and James were young when they died, alot younger then any of Harry's current professors.

Still a well thought out, well written article though, even if I don't agree with it.


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  #7  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 5:27 am
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Good article, but I don't quite agree. As mentioned by lizztigger, James and Lily were really young when they died (twenty-one, I did the math) and it just doesn't make sense to me why they'd work at Hogwarts. I think it's more likely they were aurors. Tonks, I've alwys assumed, is in her twenties, meaning she'd have been at school when Lily and James would have been teaching, and I'm sure she would have said something to Harry. Why keep it a secret? Also, I don't think the fact that Prof. Flitwick was proctoring the DADA exam definitely means he wasn't teaching at Hogwarts; perhaps they figured he'd be impartial because it was not his subject. Lastly, a lot of people say that Lily's wand being good for Charm work meaning she performed a special blood charm to protect Harry, but I can already think of an important charm her wand would have been useful for: the Fidelius Charm that hid the Potters from Voldemort. But still a good essay P.S. in the PoA movie, when Aunt Petunia says James was unemployed, I think she was just trying to explain away his apparent lack of normal work, as well as just generally make him look bad to Aunt Marge.



Last edited by sceadu; July 3rd, 2005 at 5:29 am.
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  #8  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 5:44 am
lily313  Undisclosed.gif lily313 is offline
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Good Editorial but one or two things come to mind. It's true it does seem the professors are not allowed to administer the practical tests nor it appears their own written tests, but McGonnagal does administer the Charms written test(OOtp pprbck pge 712) just as Flitwick was administering the DADA written test (not his own subject) Not sure if that was an oversite on JK's part or not as the only other mention by name of the administrator of a written test is Prof. Tofty. Also, Flitwick must already have been teaching at Hogwarts when James and Lily were there because of what he said in PoA (us pprbck Chptr 10 pg204) when Harry overheard Fudge and company in the Three Broomsticks telling Madam Rosmerta about Sirius, Flitwick says" You'd have thought Black and Potter were brothers." This insinuates he saw them together a lot, not just at exam time.( sorry I just read liztiger mentioned this too)

Also, I'm really not sure why everyone assumes Quirrell only held the position for a year. Hagrid makes mention he was always funny or nervous but got worse after his return from a trip to Albania (of course we know why). This would imply he had already been at Hogwarts and then came back. They say the job is jinxed and Fred, George and Harry discuss what's happened to the last 4 teachers iin Ootp but Fred and George had already been at Hogwarts for two years before Harry and didn't make mention of any additional teachers not lasting long, they only started with Quirrell. Quirrell seems about the same age as the Potter's would have been though I have no canon for that. It might have been possible for James to have taught but I don't believe Lily did and I also find it a bit of a stretch that no one would have mentioned James teaching before now. (except that JKR would need to conceal that tid bit)

I thought the editorial was well written but maybe not as well researched as it could have been. However, huge kudos for taking the time and energy to have submitted it and obviously given it a lot of thought. I haven't been brave enough to submit as yet.


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  #9  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 5:55 am
bronwyn
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I'm guessing that the fourth paragraph is actually supposed to be about Snape, trying to get the position as an undercover DE, if that helps anyone.

Didn't JKR say something to the effect that James didn't actually have a steady, regular job due to his having inherited money? I don't think Harry would have a small fortune, even with wizard life insurance, from his parents working at Hogwarts.


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  #10  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 6:05 am
Georgie  Female.gif Georgie is offline
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I have thought something similar for a long time, but I figured Flitwick was teaching. That doesn't mean James wasn't DADA professor, it just meant to me that Lily did a different subject, maybe Muggle Studies as she's a muggleborn, or maybe she was into Ancient Runes, Astronomy or maybe even Potions, as Snape has been teaching Potions for 16 years in OotP, meaning a year before Harry was born... I dont think Lily would have been a teacher while carring Harry too... Plus they had to go into hiding.

Jo has said in one interview that some Hogwarts teachers are married, but she couldn't say who because it would give too much away or something... I think this is a really good theory and is very likely (IMO) to be true in HBP or book 7


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  #11  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 6:25 am
hermionefan01  Female.gif hermionefan01 is offline
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hmmm you're going in a great direction with this, however I have a few queries. The first is that Mr. Olivander tells Harry that James' wand was fantasic for transfiguration. Ok so maybe that wouldn't affect his job, but I just thought I'd throw that into the mix. And when Umbridge is inspecting the teachers, how long does Flitwick tell her he's been teaching for? I don't have my books right now. It'd be interesting to find out why someone apparently so old has [only?] been teaching for X amount of years.
My final question is if Snape remembers Flitwick taking in the papers for (I stress) a subject he was not teaching, what on Earth was Flitwick teaching before he supposedly took over the charms position from Lily?


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  #12  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 6:29 am
cantfindaname
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wow. I never realyy truly thougth of that. I always kind of interpreted that Flitwick was teaching but now that i think about it, why would he be there during the DADA examination.


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  #13  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 6:33 am
moluvsharry  Female.gif moluvsharry is offline
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good editorial! but i personally think that lily was an unspeakable and that james was an auror or an unspeakable! also in ootp does umbridge ask flitwick how long he'd been in his teaching position?


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  #14  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 6:58 am
elimy  Female.gif elimy is offline
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Good ideas. It never occurred to me that Lily and James were teachers; I always just assumed that they were aurors. But if that were the case, it seems likely that someone would have mentioned it to Harry. For example, McGonagall might have mentioned it to Harry that he wanted to pursue the same career as one or both of his parents in private after their career-counselling meeting. Or Moody might have mentioned it when he showed Harry the picture of the original Order.

I know that JKR has said (as mentioned several times) that Lily and James didn't need well paying jobs. Well, I don't know about the rest of the world, but I do know that teaching is well-known and widely-regarded for being very poorly paying in the US. However, it seems to me that they may have been a bit young to be teaching. Most of the other teachers seem older than Lily and James would have been.

Either way, I think we'll probably find out in HBP!! (fingers crossed!!)


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  #15  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 7:19 am
Perman  Undisclosed.gif Perman is offline
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I would have to beat this down.. Firstly, they are called 'professors'. In the normal world that would indicate you have a PHD (7-8 years?), am I correct? Even though we have seen many examples of teachers obviously lacking the wizarding equivalent of a PHD (whatever that may be..). Hagrid, Moody and probably Lupin among others probably lack a wizards' PHD. But we know these people are older, and have proved their competence over more years.
James and Lily were only 22 when they died. That would mean they held one of the probably most prestigefilled occupations of the British wizarding comunity at the age of 22...
I hope I'm not the only one finding that to be unlikely.

Of course there is the chance that there was a shortage of teachers due to Voldemorts campaign.

I would personally suggest James did something where he utilized his wealth. For example run a business like the one Fred and George are planning.


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  #16  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 7:21 am
xYiahxYiahx  Female.gif xYiahxYiahx is offline
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I really strongly disagree with this editorial. Firstly, as far as we know, none of the Hogwarts teachers are married, and I certainly don't think that they'd allow a married couple to work together at Hogwarts...it'd just be...kind of unprofessional with them sleeping in the same quarters, and what if they were caught kissing in between classes.....it'd just be really unprofessional, and I don't think they'd be professors so young anyway. So, even though it was well written, I really disagree with it......


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  #17  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 7:36 am
catclone  Female.gif catclone is offline
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yeah, an interesting theory, but i'm not sure that lily was the charm teacher if flitwick was already there when the mauraders and lily were at hogwarts. then there would be 2 charm teachers and that doesn't make sense. I think were spies or some sort of profession we have yet to hear about. I mean, JK DOES put new info in each book. but, we'll have the answer in 12 days! yeah!


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  #18  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 7:37 am
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ok i'll bite, lemme go get my OotP book *runs upstairs* ok well all that i can find is that umbridge inspected flitwick during one of Fred and George's classes(us HB 311) is that a coincidence *raised eyebrow* well yes i think it is a coincidence. although it is a possibility that lily and james taught at Hogwarts, i highly doubt it. my guess is that they were employed in occupations that we're not exactly familiar with. let's face it, we don't exactly know alot of the occupations of the wizarding world. we may think we do, but jut think how many new vocations were unveiled to us in OotP when we actually went into the ministries' halls. so who knows, although it is fun to speculate....

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  #19  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 7:46 am
evilinside  Undisclosed.gif evilinside is offline
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I think Flitwick mentioned it because it wasn't safe for large groups to travel from and to Hogwarts, so they just took a random teacher to monitor.


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  #20  
Old July 3rd, 2005, 7:49 am
luvING_HP
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I think the strongest evidence of James being the DADA teacher is that Snape so desperately wants the position! Think about it -- Snape is beaten out by James at many things (including gaining the affections of Lily) and then they both become teachers and James gets Snape's first choice to subject! It would only make sense that Snape still feels he needs to prove to himself -- and maybe just as importantly to Dumbledore -- that he is James' equal and up to the task. Could it also be a case where Lily was intersted in teaching, and Snape learned of this and decided to become a professor as well, only to have James swoop in and say "what the heck, I'll teach too then, dear" so he can keep Lily on his arm and off of Snape's? If James did inherit a fortune, and money was no object, neither James nor Lily would need a high paying job, and although we don't know how well or poorly teachers at Hogwarts get paid, if it's anything like it is in the USA, they are grossly UNDERpaid. Luckily, money wasn't an object. Finally, if James and Lily were strong int he order it would make sense that Dumbledore would choose two very compitent and loyal people to teach such essential subjects for training future Order members.
Excellent editoral!
:-)
Jesse


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