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Destruction of a Horcrux



 
 
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  #61  
Old July 24th, 2005, 1:19 pm
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I think that he will have to destroy them directly, with his own hands (Could it be "at the hand of the other"?), and not directly with magic.

Throwing them through the Veil? Could be a solution, he could also give them to a Dementor, after all I don't think they mind to suck a whole soul or suck it by parts.


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  #62  
Old July 24th, 2005, 1:48 pm
Red_Tulips  Female.gif Red_Tulips is offline
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I am sure Harry will find a way to fling each Horcrux off the highest point of Mt. Doom, and then have to kill himself, as he is likely a Horcrux. (has anyone thought of that scar's greater significance that way?)

It's frustrating when these books take on the themes of other science fiction books in such an obvious way. Harry's destruction of the horcruxes is an obvious ode to Frodo in LOTR.


  #63  
Old July 24th, 2005, 8:10 pm
slavetopadfoot  Female.gif slavetopadfoot is offline
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but would a dementor sucking the soul out of a horcrux (if this is possible) destroy the soul piece or would it just contain it with dementor itself? i don't think a dementor would destroy the soul.

i don't think dementors are known for destroying a soul along with sucking it out of a person... and if a dementor could suck the soul out of a horcrux and it remained harbored within the dementor rather than being destroyed, we would now have the problem of destroying the dementor to destroy the soul piece. can a dementor even suck a soul out of an inanimate object? i doubt it's been tried before...

and i don't see this happening and i don't understand what the point would be to make even more huge problems just to be solved within the last book itself, so i don't think the dementor theory is plausible...


  #64  
Old July 24th, 2005, 8:42 pm
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The Veil is a possibility, as are dementors - if they suck out the soul...shouldn't they be able to remove parts of a soul from the Horcruxes? The question is, how does Harry get them to suck out LV's soul from, say, a goblet without it sucking out his soul too?


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  #65  
Old July 24th, 2005, 11:50 pm
Scarlet Tears  Female.gif Scarlet Tears is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytook
I think that in order to understand the destruction of a horcrux, we need to think about how horcruxes (sp?) are made. In order to make one, you need to do an act of evil, aka murdering somebody. So, it stands to reason that in order to destroy a(n) horcrux, you need to do an act of good.
That theory sounds very plausible to me, especially because, as you said, Harry's ability to love is what makes him so powerful.

Going back to the idea of needing to think about how Horcruxes are made, I also believe that destroying a Horcrux involves releasing the part of the sould that is encased inside the object. We know that in order to make a Horcrux, a wizard must perform an act of supreme evil (ie: murder) to split his/her soul and then use a spell to encase the torn portion of the soul in an object. So, in order to destroy a Horcrux, one would have to find a way of allowing the piece of the soul concealed in the object to escape, and performing an act of supreme good seems like it would work.


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  #66  
Old July 25th, 2005, 12:04 am
Denyse  Female.gif Denyse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgriffith237
Well I think in the seventh book maybe Dumbledore will have left some information around for Harry on what to do if Dumbledore dies. The thing about the unforgivable curses is up in the air though. I mean I'm sure Dumbledore had thought about that at some point in time. Maybe Dumbledore was going to teach Harry how to them?? But I doubt that because I really can't see Dumbledore or Harry for that matter using a unforgivable curse. Maybe there is another way to kill him???

There has to be a way doesn't there? I thought that because of their wands, Harry would be unable to kill LV via AK. Or is it that they just can't duel. So Destroy the horcruxes and drop a big rock on his head? Or what?

Or, does he find his father or his mother's wand and kill LV with one of those? AHA! I love this idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herminia
The Veil is a possibility, as are dementors - if they suck out the soul...shouldn't they be able to remove parts of a soul from the Horcruxes? The question is, how does Harry get them to suck out LV's soul from, say, a goblet without it sucking out his soul too?
Or get the dementors to suck out the remaining soul that still inside LV. Easier said than done, I'm assuming.


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  #67  
Old July 25th, 2005, 12:43 am
Fire_Whiskey  Undisclosed.gif Fire_Whiskey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytook
I think that in order to understand the destruction of a horcrux, we need to think about how horcruxes (sp?) are made. In order to make one, you need to do an act of evil, aka murdering somebody. So, it stands to reason that in order to destroy a(n) horcrux, you need to do an act of good. Nowhere does it say that you have to destroy the actual object to destroy the horcrux, unless im mistaking. If you think about the two horcruxes that we know for sure were destroyed, (the ring and the diary) we know that it took a sacrifice to destroy them (harry got bit by a basilsik, and dumbledore sacrificed his hand.) So, my working theory, is that destroying the rest will NOT be easy, and will require some kind of sacrifice from the characters. This also relates right back to the fact that the power harry has over Voldemort is love. And I do agree with the theory that harry is the sixth horcrux. However, I don't think harry will have to die in order to destroy his horcrux. I think maybe Ron will sacrifice himself for harry, thus the act of good needed to destroy his horcrux, then harry's free to defeat voldemort. (by the by, i say ron because there are many theories that show that ron's death has been foreshadowed.)
I agree, you beat me to it! It's going to take a sacrifice of love to destroy the horcruxes. As far as finding the horcruxes and beating the curses and traps goes; It's a shame Harry doesn't know anybody experienced in treasure hunting and curse breaking. Where, oh where, will he find somebody like that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Tulips
I am sure Harry will find a way to fling each Horcrux off the highest point of Mt. Doom, and then have to kill himself, as he is likely a Horcrux. (has anyone thought of that scar's greater significance that way?)

It's frustrating when these books take on the themes of other science fiction books in such an obvious way. Harry's destruction of the horcruxes is an obvious ode to Frodo in LOTR.
There's only, what, 30 some original stories that have ever been told. Everything else is just a variation of an original theme. Don't worry about it.


  #68  
Old July 26th, 2005, 1:35 am
MidlifeCrisis  Undisclosed.gif MidlifeCrisis is offline
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The last Horcruxes will be the worst to get rid of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire_Whiskey
I agree, you beat me to it! It's going to take a sacrifice of love to destroy the horcruxes. As far as finding the horcruxes and beating the curses and traps goes; It's a shame Harry doesn't know anybody experienced in treasure hunting and curse breaking. Where, oh where, will he find somebody like that?
Excellent, excellent!!! I'm sure Bill didn't need any more urging to help, but he will undoubtedly be more than willing now after being attacked by Fenrir. Fleur doesn't seem to be the type to try and tell him to stay out of it, either (good for her). She'll probably want to help and Molly will flip out.

I do think, however, that Voldy got better and better at protecting his Horcruxes as he made them. So, the diary wasn't very well protected at all. It did indeed, as DD said, show a total disregard for actually hiding the thing you were supposed to be keeping safe! That was, remember, the first one he made (with Myrtle's death).

OK, let me see if I can work this out.

Horcruxes
Voldy's Diary
- created by killing Myrtle while still at Hogwarts
- seems to be unprotected
- destroyed with Basilisk fang

Gaunt's Ring
- created by killing Tom Sr. (in between yr 6 & 7 at Hogwarts)
- well protected by a nasty curse - hidden in Gaunt's old house?
- destroyed (don't know how)

Slytherin's Locket
- created by killing?? (post-Hogwarts)
- protected by a lot of nasty things & well hidden - takes 2 people to get to it
- whereabouts & intactness unknown

So it seems, as he got older, Voldy got a lot smarter about protecting and hiding his Horcruxes, and a lot nastier about the curses that were on and around them. I would also imagine that the idea of killing someone from a particular house (like a direct descendant of Hufflepuff, for instance) would make it even better for him. I'll hazard a guess that he killed Hepzibah to make the cup Horcrux given her relation to Helga H. It would be his idea of purifying the school in a way, wouldn't it? Maybe that's where we can look for the rest of the Horcruxes - places significant to Voldy. That must mean the Riddle House or the graveyard of his rebirth would be good places to look. Maybe one is still at the school too. The last of them, if it really is Nagini, stays with him.


  #69  
Old July 26th, 2005, 7:58 am
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Concerning the earlier discussion about the unforgivables, It never says you have to really "want" to cast any other than Crucio. I also feel that even if "want" is required to cast an unforgivable on an enemy I think Harry has the ability to kill Tom and Severus (pending further plot twists of course). So if it comes down to motive I think Harry deffinately has the motive.

One point I think people have been missing about the creation of Tom's horcruxes is that a horcrux is not created from a specific murder; it all depends on a sufficeint number of soul fragments. At the time that Tom found out about horcuxes and their construction, he had already split his soul into enough pieces to make four horcruxes. The specific murder idea comes from Dumbledore's rather deep understanding of Tom's psyche. Dumbledore has inferred, from the horcruxes that have been identified, that Tom created his horcruxes from specific items that have (for lack of a better word) sentimental value to him. The diary was written the year he opened the Chamber of Secrets and commited his first murder. He felt that the ring was rightfully his, and he liked the history behind it concerning Slytherin's legacy. The locket was another hierloom of Slytherin and the cup was a possession of a Hogwarts founder. Nagini (assuming, as I do, that she is a horcrux) sustained him in his travels and apparently provided him with his pseudo body.


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  #70  
Old July 26th, 2005, 2:56 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Tulips
I am sure Harry will find a way to fling each Horcrux off the highest point of Mt. Doom, and then have to kill himself, as he is likely a Horcrux. (has anyone thought of that scar's greater significance that way?)

It's frustrating when these books take on the themes of other science fiction books in such an obvious way. Harry's destruction of the horcruxes is an obvious ode to Frodo in LOTR.

The scar could be a Horcrux, i've been thinking along those lines since i read the HBP. Rowling has said that the shape of the scar is not the most important thing about it.
Rather what it enables Harry to do ie see into Voldemorts mind and have access to his thoughts that Death Eaters would kill for. Dumbledore said in COS it seemed like Voldemort had poured a little bit of himself into Harry, giving him powers and future to take on Voldemort more than 3 times. More than his parents managed or Nevilles for that matter.

Those are subtles clues as to the nature of the scar. Theres a strong indication that the scar is a horcrux, however Dumbledore put a little seed of doubt into my mind, over Harry being able to choose to walk away from the whole deal if he wants to.
He doesn't have to face Voldemort because of the prophecy, Harry has ample enough reasons for wanting to exact revenge on Voldemort for the deaths of those who were extremely close to him, his parents, Sirius, and Dumbledore.

If the scar is a horcrux, a dementor could suck that part of Voldemort's soul out. But i don't think Harry would let a Dementor get that close to him, unless he had no other option. Even if that does mean death.

Oh and Harry Potter books aren't sci-fi books, they are fantasy novels.
The thing with Tolkien is everyone has recycled his ideas, knowingly and unknowingly. He did say he wanted people to use his works as a mythology. Tolkien also used the mythology from the past and reinvented it for the modern world, using his sublime skills with the use of dead langauges and English.


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  #71  
Old July 27th, 2005, 2:35 am
MidlifeCrisis  Undisclosed.gif MidlifeCrisis is offline
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More on soul fragmenting

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralSteve
One point I think people have been missing about the creation of Tom's horcruxes is that a horcrux is not created from a specific murder; it all depends on a sufficeint number of soul fragments. At the time that Tom found out about horcuxes and their construction, he had already split his soul into enough pieces to make four horcruxes. The specific murder idea comes from Dumbledore's rather deep understanding of Tom's psyche. Dumbledore has inferred, from the horcruxes that have been identified, that Tom created his horcruxes from specific items that have (for lack of a better word) sentimental value to him.
I think you've pointed out something very important that I didn't notice before, AdmiralSteve, and I'd like to add to your thought a bit just by filling in the canon for it. Slughorn tells us that murder rends the soul (p 498, US version) when he's talking with Tom and friends in the memory, and that after the soul is torn, a piece of it can be encased in the Horcrux. We see in that same scene on page 494 that Voldy already has Marvolo's ring - you're totally right, that's already 4 murders under his belt (Myrtle, his dad, and his grandparents). Now let the Horcrux-making begin.

The other thing I find very interesting is that this might mean that what ever infintessimal amount of soul is left in Voldy's body is also in a bunch of pieces, since he's obviously commited more murders than needed for 7 soul fragments. In what way might this effect or weaken him, since DD believes the power of a whole soul is great compared to his badly fragmented one?



Last edited by MidlifeCrisis; July 27th, 2005 at 2:37 am. Reason: poor grammar
  #72  
Old July 27th, 2005, 5:04 pm
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I think if he threw them through the veil, they would be in the afterlife but not destroyed. This would make the one part of soul in Voldemort immortile for sure because no one would be able to get the horcrux from behind the veil.

I think Harry should just take a gulp of Felix while trying to destroy one. It would tell him how to do it and even let him do spells to destroy the horcrux even if he didn't know them.


  #73  
Old July 27th, 2005, 6:10 pm
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There is no coming back from the Veil from what we know so far. It's also intresting to note that Voldemort did'nt go anywhere near it in order of the phoenix. You could say by apparating into the artium he made it easier for him to leave the MoM.

I think the veil will have a part to play in the last book. Perhaps in the final battle between Voldemort and Harry. Remember what Luna said about people being just behind the veil. It's most likely a gateway into whatever adventure death brings, but one which you cannot come back from (from what we know thus far, Sirius showed fear in his face just before he passed through the veil).


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  #74  
Old July 27th, 2005, 6:34 pm
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I think that Harry will need Hermione, Ron, Ginny, and even Fred and George to help find those Horcruxes. But as for killing he-who-must-not-be-named he will have to use love. All the love he posses for Sirius, DD, and his parents, and incorporate the love he feels for Ginny and his friends, maybe somehow get inside he-who-must-not-be-named and force him to feel it that way.


  #75  
Old July 27th, 2005, 6:37 pm
AmeliaCT  Female.gif AmeliaCT is offline
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Maybe it will be easier for Harry to destroy the Horcruxes after Voldermond used his blood in GoF. Harry's blood has become Voldy's in a way, so the Horcruxes may "recognize" it as their master's!!! That would make them easier to destroy... I know it sounds kind of far-fetched, but it's possible, isn't it? :-)


  #76  
Old July 27th, 2005, 7:19 pm
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Well that would make sense had it not been that the Horcruxes had all been made before graveyard scene in GoF where Voldemort was reborn so they wouldn't consider LV thier true owner anymore now. Since he has Harry's blood flowing through him. Why cannot he learn the Horcrux spell to take the soul parts out of horcruxes and then use holy items to destroy them(GG's sword etc. etc.). Or maybe to defeat the final soul piece Harry learns to put all of his love into like an arrow and he shoots it from his wand into LV's heart. Ok now that was very farfetched but just a thought.

Also isn't it weird that Voldemort took Harry to his father's grave. I think it may have significance since he could've taken Harry anywhere in the world (even to the cave where he'd never escape).

P.S. Harry might as well just give up the search himself since its imposssible for a 17 yr. old to find a horcrux as like many others mentioned it took DD such a long time to track down a Horcrux. Harry may just be accompannying his friends and the Order and the Order takes all damage from traps and stuff to allow Harry to proceed to the Horcrux. But its a thought that maybe LV would never die!!! I mean that is if Harry AK's LV then maybe LV might not die. It is his spell since he uses it like its his dinner and he may be oblivious to darkness powers like inferi. Maybe Harry just has to burn LV's clothes to weaken LV then use "love" to destroy him.

Lol this reminds me. 4 yr. old muggles would be very useful at this time for Barney and Teletubbies ways of love to destroy LV lol.


  #77  
Old July 28th, 2005, 7:33 am
slavetopadfoot  Female.gif slavetopadfoot is offline
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i don't think that the blood theory stands.

dumbledore destroyed the gaunt ring horcrux and he's not related to either tom riddle or harry.


  #78  
Old July 28th, 2005, 12:11 pm
Eir  Female.gif Eir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire_Whiskey
I agree, you beat me to it! It's going to take a sacrifice of love to destroy the horcruxes. As far as finding the horcruxes and beating the curses and traps goes; It's a shame Harry doesn't know anybody experienced in treasure hunting and curse breaking. Where, oh where, will he find somebody like that?
But they've already destroyed two of the horcruxes, right? And they didn't really seem like acts of love. Harry puts a basilisk fang through Tom's diary, and RAB got the locket by drinking a potion that makes you relive some way bad memories.


  #79  
Old July 28th, 2005, 1:39 pm
Varexarnon  Male.gif Varexarnon is offline
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Would have been really helpful if Dubledore had passed on the knowledge of how Gaunt's ring was destroyed... It would stop us having to guess how to do it, stop Harry having to do the same too

Throw the horcruxes to a dementor, that'd do the job. No idea how it will actually be done though


  #80  
Old July 28th, 2005, 2:21 pm
Fire_Whiskey  Undisclosed.gif Fire_Whiskey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eir
But they've already destroyed two of the horcruxes, right? And they didn't really seem like acts of love. Harry puts a basilisk fang through Tom's diary, and RAB got the locket by drinking a potion that makes you relive some way bad memories.
Ahh, but the only reason Harry was there in the first place was to protect Ginny. He willingly chose to sacrifice himself to try to save her. That is a sacrifice of love.


 
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