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GT #25 - Of Responses and Relationships



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  #61  
Old August 7th, 2005, 4:11 am
skywitch
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For further evidence on the Harry horcrux theory, just look at what the prophecy said," Neither can live while the other survives." If this is true, than Harry possesing LV's soul means Harry can't live in order to fully destroy Voldemort and Voldemort can't be immortal after harry is killed. I might not have all the info, but it seems like a plausible idea.


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  #62  
Old August 7th, 2005, 5:12 am
bizzy
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Another classic

First off, I totally agree on the shipping wars. Enough is enough.

I also think you're right about Snape, and I have a though on the Harry-as-a-Horcrux idea. Harry can't be a Horcrux. Voldemort went to kill him specifically that night, thinking he was following the prophecy and protecting himself, and I seriously doubt the dead body of a one year old would be an appealing home for a piece of Voldie's precious soul. The more pressing question in my mind is, if Dumbledore was right in that LV was planning on making the seventh Horcrux from the murder of one-year old Harry Potter, what was he going to make it out of?


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  #63  
Old August 7th, 2005, 3:21 pm
crazyfortonks  Female.gif crazyfortonks is offline
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The only thing I can say regarding the shipper segment of the editorial is BRAVO!!!!!

Now, as I was reading the rest of this editorial, a vague thought came to my mind. In GoF, doesn't Voldemort give Wormtail his new silver hand after killing Cedric? As Dumbledore said, Nagini would be a poor horcrux as she is a living being. Could it not be possible that the final Horcrux resides as a fixture on Wormtail's body? Wormtail had just willingly given Voldemort the "flesh of the servant" that he needed. This would be a strong sign of trust to Voldemort, who would immediately connect that with a vast amount of power that he now held over Wormtail. Also, while it cannot be considered saving Voldemort's life, could helping him to regenerate his body qualify as a significant enough event to create a "life-debt" type bond between these two? As Wormtail already has such a bond with Harry, this could fit in nicely with the outcome of the series.

I also have a hard time believing that the final horcrux was created by the murder of Frank Bryce. Voldemort killed Bertha Jorkins first in GoF. As this murder came immediately after finding out that there may be a way to get Harry away from Dumbledore and kill him, I find myself believing that it would be a much more important murder to Voldemort than that of an old muggle man (a.k.a. Frank Bryce). I feel that Bertha's murder has been quite overlooked during the whole horcrux discussion.


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  #64  
Old August 7th, 2005, 9:45 pm
LindseyH11387  Female.gif LindseyH11387 is offline
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Amazing, simply amazing. My hat is off to you. two thumbs up.

As you said in 1999 JKR said that Harry and Hermione were platonic friends. I never really understood why peopled shipped them .

Again it was amazing. And for the record I cried as well. Both times I read the book .


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  #65  
Old August 7th, 2005, 10:54 pm
Aicerno  Male.gif Aicerno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LindseyH11387
Amazing, simply amazing. My hat is off to you. two thumbs up.

As you said in 1999 JKR said that Harry and Hermione were platonic friends. I never really understood why peopled shipped them .

Again it was amazing. And for the record I cried as well. Both times I read the book .
The Harry/Hermione ship has sunk, and the stories continue. Although for purely semantical purposes--and one will have to see what Book seven has in store--the Harry/Ginny ship lasted for little over a week and is equally--unless they re-connect in book seven--dead in the water. *Shrugs* And while I haven't seen all of the comments made by so-called Hermione/Harry shippers, considering having read the interview that seems to have sparked the anger... Is it really fans being upset at J.K.R., or is it more a reaction at Emerson's having called the Harry/Hermione shippers delusional in a public forum with the creator of the series?

It's a fictional book, and the only literary genius about Rowling is getting young kids to read big thick books. You can see her writing style improve over time, from Philosophers' stone to Half-blood Prince, but even though I've read each book between seven and ten times each respectively (except for HBP)... I cannot call it great literature. At best it manages to get onto my alright literature list. And as the author points out, shipping is not the point of the series. *Giving a smug smile* As a minor technicality, having witnessed some of the flame wars between the shippers; the Hermione/Ron supporters gave as good as they got, so there are no innocents. And based on the parameters established in this paragraph, they are no more, or less delusional than their Her/Harry counterparts--the difference as obsessive readers would like to point out is that the former are supported by canon now. The chocolate shippers got a 'week' in the limelight.

Personally I can understand why people would ship Harry/Hermione... because in reading through their interactions through the 'harry' filter, even if they are only ever platonic friends... the way they work together--with minor exception being the subject of Quidditch--is one that I think most people need to have in their relationships--both romantic and platonic, as well as familial. And the way the Ron/Hermione build-up was written, the arguments sounded more like verbal abuse than a congenial argument between potential spouses. But then again, I'm a jaded and occassionaly cynical 27 year old.

-------------------------------------------------------------

To address the author... I would have to say that the article was good, and I enjoyed it greatly.

As someone who's taken an interest in the history of duelling (at least as muggles know of it), the point I would have to argue is that one could--contrary to canon--be able to perform a killing curse and not have to have full intent. The person knows that there's a fifty-fifty chance that they may or may not survive the encounter and the skilled dueller or combatant would take that into consideration.

All in all, bravo.


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  #66  
Old August 8th, 2005, 2:56 pm
HPFan637  Female.gif HPFan637 is offline
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I completely agree! It is absolutely horrid that HP fans are being judged by the DELUSIONAL Harry/Hermione shippers. I keep telling everyone I know that I am not crazy and HP books are not just for children. How can they believe me if there are articles being written on the upraor of the H/Hr shippers? If that's not childish, I don't know what is. I wish everyone would just get back to what's important in the series. And that, in my opinion, is Harry's journey and the battle between good and evil. Besides, how can we get off of the Children's Book list if we're acting like children?


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  #67  
Old August 8th, 2005, 6:16 pm
plainlypotter  Female.gif plainlypotter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyfortonks
The only thing I can say regarding the shipper segment of the editorial is BRAVO!!!!!

Now, as I was reading the rest of this editorial, a vague thought came to my mind. In GoF, doesn't Voldemort give Wormtail his new silver hand after killing Cedric? As Dumbledore said, Nagini would be a poor horcrux as she is a living being. Could it not be possible that the final Horcrux resides as a fixture on Wormtail's body? Wormtail had just willingly given Voldemort the "flesh of the servant" that he needed. This would be a strong sign of trust to Voldemort, who would immediately connect that with a vast amount of power that he now held over Wormtail. Also, while it cannot be considered saving Voldemort's life, could helping him to regenerate his body qualify as a significant enough event to create a "life-debt" type bond between these two? As Wormtail already has such a bond with Harry, this could fit in nicely with the outcome of the series.



I also have a hard time believing that the final horcrux was created by the murder of Frank Bryce. Voldemort killed Bertha Jorkins first in GoF. As this murder came immediately after finding out that there may be a way to get Harry away from Dumbledore and kill him, I find myself believing that it would be a much more important murder to Voldemort than that of an old muggle man (a.k.a. Frank Bryce). I feel that Bertha's murder has been quite overlooked during the whole horcrux discussion.
This is an interesting take on the creation of the horcruxes , but if you take the assumption ( and this is an assumption not based on anything in the books) that it takes a "fresh" death to create a horcrux then perhaps although LV had the article he wanted to use for the fifth horcrux say the cup, and he used the death of James to create that horcrux before finding Lily, and he didn't have one for the sixth or didn't have a body to make it possible to actually create the horcrux , then LV might have used Frank's body because it was convenient, and he didn't use Berths'a b/c he didn't have the strength to create one at that time. But what makes me wonder is , if LV thought that seven would somehow such a powerful number , why would he attempt to kill the only person who "could vanquish" him with only five horcruxes not six ?


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  #68  
Old August 8th, 2005, 7:58 pm
Poisoned_Mead  Male.gif Poisoned_Mead is offline
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I hate how you all are grouping all of the HHR shippers in with this little thing. I'm a HHR shipper, but I don't agree with the things that some of my fellow shippers are saying. Just because they are saying those things doesn't mean that all of us feel that way. It's delusional to think that all the HHR shippers are thinking that way.





Last edited by Poisoned_Mead; August 9th, 2005 at 12:59 am.
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  #69  
Old August 10th, 2005, 8:47 pm
Polyjuice
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You said that maybe Voldemort killed Dippet. But you said you didnt know why he would... maybe he did it to create a Horcrux. And if that's true that would be some good evidence to believe that something in Dumbledore's office (say, the sorting hat or sword) is a horcrux.


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  #70  
Old August 12th, 2005, 1:20 am
Midwife_witch  Female.gif Midwife_witch is offline
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Wormtail and Snape

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyfortonks
Now, as I was reading the rest of this editorial, a vague thought came to my mind. In GoF, doesn't Voldemort give Wormtail his new silver hand after killing Cedric? As Dumbledore said, Nagini would be a poor horcrux as she is a living being. Could it not be possible that the final Horcrux resides as a fixture on Wormtail's body? Wormtail had just willingly given Voldemort the "flesh of the servant" that he needed. This would be a strong sign of trust to Voldemort, who would immediately connect that with a vast amount of power that he now held over Wormtail. Also, while it cannot be considered saving Voldemort's life, could helping him to regenerate his body qualify as a significant enough event to create a "life-debt" type bond between these two? As Wormtail already has such a bond with Harry, this could fit in nicely with the outcome of the series.
Hmmm... Interesting possibility, though I think Wormtail has, throughout the series, behaved in far too craven a manner for Voldemort to entrust him with a horcrux.

I think the more interesting question vis a vis Wormtail is what his presence at Spinner's End means for Snape. Was Wormtail really there to serve Snape (as Snape implies) or to spy on him (as the "Snape is really good" theory might suggest)?

Sorry to get off the horcrux subject but frankly, it makes my head hurt.


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  #71  
Old August 12th, 2005, 3:36 am
plainlypotter  Female.gif plainlypotter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwife_witch
Hmmm... Interesting possibility, though I think Wormtail has, throughout the series, behaved in far too craven a manner for Voldemort to entrust him with a horcrux.

I think the more interesting question vis a vis Wormtail is what his presence at Spinner's End means for Snape. Was Wormtail really there to serve Snape (as Snape implies) or to spy on him (as the "Snape is really good" theory might suggest)?

Sorry to get off the horcrux subject but frankly, it makes my head hurt.
Personally I don't think LV trusts anyone, either wormtail was spying on snape or Snape was spying on wormtail or both. DD says something to the effect that tyrants are always watchful of those they opress because eventually they rise up to overthrow you- It seems the only one who is always faithful is Bella and she let Cissy make an unbreakable vow to protect Draco. Now is that telling, does that mean that Bella was sent to snape with cissy so that the unbreakable vow would come into effect and snape would have to show his true colors -


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  #72  
Old August 14th, 2005, 6:21 am
sirusvilla  Male.gif sirusvilla is offline
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Thank goodness This editorial was written! I could not agree more with Dan's views on overly obsessive shipping.


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  #73  
Old August 15th, 2005, 4:33 am
iceblueangel  Undisclosed.gif iceblueangel is offline
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Hear, hear...well done on the whole article, especially the relationship part. I never understand why these people never seems to know the heart of the matter, this is definately not romance book. I do fancy Harry/Hermione, mostly coz I didn't see much of Ginny in the book, but frankly I prefer the romance to be kept at minimum. Understandably they are teenagers, if there's none, it'll look weird.

Great job!!!


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  #74  
Old August 17th, 2005, 6:24 pm
socks2  Undisclosed.gif socks2 is offline
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I think Harry is going to die. I just do. I mean, throughout the whole series, especially towards the end, Dumbledore and everyone have been hinting, or unconsiously telling him that his main purpose in life is to kill Voldemort. Harry will not be satisfied until he does, and has even taken this goal, this desire, this purpose over everything else in life he enjoys...(Ginny, anyone?). I think Harry will die, because after he kills Voldemort, can you honestly picture him living a life of peace and happiness without death eaters and evil dark lords after him? He wouldn't be able to sit still for more than 2 days!
However, I don't think that he would just die any old way. The best theory I can think of is the Harry-is-a-Horcrux theory.


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  #75  
Old August 17th, 2005, 7:42 pm
lscarbro  Undisclosed.gif lscarbro is offline
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Lightning Bolt=Horcrux?

Good editorial. I do have a question about the lightning bolt theory, though. If the lightning bolt is a sign of a horcrux, why didn't Riddle's diary have a lightning bolt?


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  #76  
Old August 18th, 2005, 2:04 am
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[quote=The Gray Lady][quote] I think that the sixth horcrux is Harry. --about ten million people

The thought struck me too, but the question is…why? Why would Voldemort do that, knowing that, if he kills Harry, then he is destroying part of his own soul?
Quote:

In CoS when DD explained to Harry how he became a Parseltongue he said the night LV gave him the scar he transferred some of his powers to him BY ACCIDENT. Here’s my take on what happened:

Because of LV’s life experience he would not have anticipated what we find so obvious, a mother standing in between danger and her son. He expected her to move aside instead of dying for him so he, after killing James, ascended the stairs while reciting the incantation so the next kill would create the HCX. He had wanted to use Harry since the prophecy indicated he would become a powerful wizard possibly making the HCX even more powerful, just like his insistence upon 7 of them and his insistence upon using Harry’s blood in the GoF potion to restore his body. When Lily refused to move he was forced to use her instead, having already been locked into the incantation. When he killed her the HCX was created. He thought he would just quickly bump off Harry & look for the Gryffindor/Hufflepuff object he expected to be there (probably Gryffindor since it was Godrick’s Hollow & the house belonged to Gryffindors) to put the HCX in but when the AK rebounded he essentially dropped it and it fell into the object his mind was last focused on – Harry.
I think this theory of yours is good but remember in GoF when Harry and Voldemorts wands fight against each other thar Voldemorts wand regurgitated the last spells it had performed and all the last spells seemed to take form in one way or another, cruciatus curses took form in screams, wormtail's hand and then the murders,dont you think some kind of thing should have apeared if the horcrux had been performed. According to your theory something must had come ourt of the wand just between James and Lilys shape. Remebering this kida gives me hope,that harry isnt a horcrux, What do you think...
It gives me something else to think about.



Last edited by Montse; August 18th, 2005 at 2:23 am.
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  #77  
Old August 18th, 2005, 2:33 am
mixie_kd  Female.gif mixie_kd is offline
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I am new to the forums and this is the first editorial I have read and found it very interesting.
I tend to agree with those who don't think Harry could be a horcrux. Voldemort wanted Harry dead and tried to kill him. I am guessing he didn't decide to make Harry a horcrux when his orginal plan failed. Voldemort most likely did not come in with a back up plan. Also, I think of Harry as the essence of what is good and right. voldemort is the essence of evil. The two can't coexist in the same body. Harry could not be the person he is if he had a portion of Voldemort living inside him.

About Harry/Hermoine, people should get over it and move on. Can't we be happy for Ron that he got the girl (sort of...)? And I was thrilled when Ginny and Harry kissed. I don't think that whole story is over yet...


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  #78  
Old August 18th, 2005, 8:10 pm
StarAStar  Undisclosed.gif StarAStar is offline
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Priori Incantum effect in the graveyard also had no visible representation of LV attempting Imperio on Harry ("Just say 'No'"...)


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  #79  
Old August 19th, 2005, 1:58 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarAStar
Priori Incantum effect in the graveyard also had no visible representation of LV attempting Imperio on Harry ("Just say 'No'"...)
.Good point, kinda take my hope away,But remember in OoP when LV tries to poses Harry to get Dumbledore to kill him and that he just couldnt stand it, and Dumbledore said it was because Harry was so full of the force he cant stand he just couldnt do it, wouldnt this apply to any piece of LV soul, its the same essence of evil, isnt it,part of the same being,why would one part could and ather couldnt,and if Harry was a Horcrux ,wouldnt LV,found out he was one and be more powerful to resist Harrys love inside him, , I dont know if I made my point clear...
I just dont wanna give up hope that easily
Opinions please.


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  #80  
Old August 19th, 2005, 4:20 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montse
.Good point, kinda take my hope away,But remember in OoP when LV tries to poses Harry to get Dumbledore to kill him and that he just couldnt stand it, and Dumbledore said it was because Harry was so full of the force he cant stand he just couldnt do it, wouldnt this apply to any piece of LV soul, its the same essence of evil, isnt it,part of the same being,why would one part could and ather couldnt,and if Harry was a Horcrux ,wouldnt LV,found out he was one and be more powerful to resist Harrys love inside him, , I dont know if I made my point clear...
I just dont wanna give up hope that easily
Opinions please.
Just read Red Sparks point of view in Magics most evil and how he thinks Harry isnot a Horcrux, Hope is back,I think his point of view is right.


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