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Two-Way Mirror #21 - The Mirror of Erised: A Horcrux



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  #1  
Old August 10th, 2005, 6:53 am
navygreen  Female.gif navygreen is offline
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Two-Way Mirror #21 - The Mirror of Erised: A Horcrux

Discussion for The Two-Way Mirror #21 - The Mirror of Erised: A Horcrux by Daniela Teo.


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  #2  
Old August 10th, 2005, 7:20 am
SparklyYoyo  Female.gif SparklyYoyo is offline
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I thought that this was a great editorial! Especially how the Stone was inside the mirror. Is there a possibility that Voldemort's soul transferred into the Stone when Dumbledore encased it in the mirror? Probably not, but it would be interesting, especially since the Stone had already been destroyed...


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  #3  
Old August 10th, 2005, 7:46 am
lily313  Undisclosed.gif lily313 is offline
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Interesting editorial but I'm not quite buying your reasoning behind your theory. I think we're all reading too much into everything instead of taking facts as Jo has laid them out. People are second guessing the number of horcruxes and whether or not living things make good ones. However, that said I believe the Mirror of Erised will play a roll, perhaps even significant but I'm not sure about it being a horcrux. I think when Voldemort was in the Castle DD was having him watched very closely. As he already suspected him of wanting something that was within the castle walls, I don't beleive he would have allowed voldemort to go running about unchecked.

Also, I don't think the clawed feet is of any signifigance other than descriptive. It was not and is not uncommon for furniture or ornate objects to have clawed feet, I believe it's some kind of a powerful symbol, so than in and of itself I don't beleive is pertinent. I would think if it was a Ravenclaw artifact DD surely would have known it and would have told Harry he suspected it of being a Horcrux so he'd know to destroy it. If DD suspected it of being a Horcrux he most certainly would have destroyed it. I think there may be other things hidden within it but I doubt it's a Horcrux (**two years down the road choking on my own words**)

I do think you may have been on to something with Jo's remark about Sirius's mirror. I also initially read that quote and another she made before the books publication that the broken mirror/sirius's mirror would be important but ,perhaps the emphasis was not on the word "mirror" but on the word "that". She had nothing more to say about "that" mirror which would indicate she might have more to say about another mirror. We'd have to ask Emmerson and Melissa about her emphasis if any. This would give some credence to more to come on the mirror of erised. I'm rambling now as it's very late and I'm tired.

Good Editorial with some good points, I'm just not sure that it's not reaching a bit too much.



Last edited by lily313; August 10th, 2005 at 7:49 am. Reason: spell check
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  #4  
Old August 10th, 2005, 8:09 am
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Excellent editorial. It certainly seems a possibility that the mirror is a horcrux. However, I dont think Vldemort knew the properties of te mirror when he was trying to get the stone. If he knew it..then he could've gotten it. Snape could've hidden the horcrux in the mirror for him. Maybe...but that totally goes against my hope that Snape is loyal to Dumbledore. I especially like your references to he importance of mirrors in the series.


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  #5  
Old August 10th, 2005, 9:21 am
Morwenna  Female.gif Morwenna is offline
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Two-Way Mirror #21 - The Mirror of Erised: A Horcrux Reply to Thread

First, my compliments to Daniela for this well-written editorial.

For the first half of it, I was pretty convinced, but then I went over the Mirror scene from SS in my mind - Voldemort is interacting with the Mirror there, but does not show any hint that this is a special item for him. I'm not sure whether he's aware of what it exactly does, I'll have to read the scene again for that. From memory, I feel most of his conclusion rather came from Legilimency than knowledge of the artifact itself.

But certainly, Voldemort would not be too keen on starting a fistfight right in front of a fragile object which contains part of his soul, would he? With the ring cursed and the locket so well protected, I would assume there's at least some amount of protection for all of the horcruxes.
(Thinking of cursed jewellery... could the opal necklace have been Rowena Ravenclaw's, maybe even a gift of love from Godric? This would make a "double heirloom"... hmmmm... just thought about this now. Must check in the forums!)

What really got me thinking was the part about Sirius' mirror. This could be leading somwhere...

Once again, thanks for sharing this, Daniela!

Morwenna


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  #6  
Old August 10th, 2005, 9:59 am
Saf  Undisclosed.gif Saf is offline
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I'm rather sure she either meant the location of a Horcrux we'd figure out within a week. And if RAB=Regalus theories are true, then we already have. Great editorial, anyway.


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  #7  
Old August 10th, 2005, 10:12 am
nymphadorafan  Undisclosed.gif nymphadorafan is offline
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Great editorial! It's a great theory but I don't think that Voldemort knew how the mirror works in SS. And I think if it was a horcrux that Dumbledore would know. I think Dmbledore had a close watch on Voldemort when he was in the castle and I think Voldemort knew that Dumbledore wouldn't let him walk around Hogwarts freely.

I was curious about Sirius' mirror after I read the interview. If R.A.B. is Regulus, and if he had another mirror like the one Sirius had, maybe there something more to that mirror then we tought.


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  #8  
Old August 10th, 2005, 10:37 am
Illythia  Female.gif Illythia is offline
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Brilliant editorial! You've given the best arguments yet for any Horcrux theories that I've seen. I thought of a couple things supporting and a couple of things against. Actually, more than a couple, but you kept answering them yourself.

First, as I keep reminding people, Dumbledore did not know about the Horcruxes until he was informed about the diary. So that means that if the mirror is a Horcrux, it is so well-disguised that Dumbledore didn't notice it and Voldemort, who is exceedingly arrogant, probably would not have worried about it.

I love the idea that it's such a perfect Horcrux because Voldemort would have been using Dumbledore himself to keep it safe. The irony of that must be highly amusing to the Dark Lord.

The best supporting argument is that the entire series seems to mirror itself, so the Mirror of Erised should have to show up in Book 7 in one way or another. It's just like how the diary was so important in both 2 & 6.

You already brought up the question of when the Mirror arrived at Hogwarts. There's problems either way. If it's been at Hogwarts too long, then it would be almost impossible for Voldemort to have hidden a soul fragment in it. It seems to me that the item must be present during the murder, but I guess I have nothing to back that up! Then again, if the Mirror has been at Hogwarts since sometime after Tom was there, then its connection to Hogwarts is weakened.

Finally, my biggest problem is that the Stone and the Horcrux would have been hidden in the mirror at the same time. Wouldn't the presence of a Philosopher's Stone, which grants immortality, have some effect on the Horcrux in the Mirror? I feel like there should be some sort of magical reaction between the two. Or, perhaps, since a soul is already immortal itself, the Stone would have no effect on it...

Ah well, I'm off to read your other editorial!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morwenna
(Thinking of cursed jewellery... could the opal necklace have been Rowena Ravenclaw's, maybe even a gift of love from Godric? This would make a "double heirloom"... hmmmm... just thought about this now. Must check in the forums!)
The necklace was my first guess, though I never started a thread on it. The strongest argument is that it was kept at Borgin and Burkes, which obviously had meaning to Voldie.


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Old August 10th, 2005, 11:01 am
hermiowninny  Undisclosed.gif hermiowninny is offline
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Interesting editorial. However, I do not agree that the Mirror of Erised is a Horcrux.

First, Daniela theorized that Voldemort made the mirror a Horcrux when he was denied the DADA position. She forgot that in order to make a Horcrux, the wizard first has to split his soul by committing murder. There doesn't seem to be any record of any murders at Hogwarts at the time. Without a murder, no Horcrux can be made.

Second, if Voldemort had made the mirror a Horcrux, then he would have known about the mirror and recognized it in Philosopher's Stone, and it appears he did not recognize or understand the mirror at all in that book.

Third, the Horcruxes seem to be protected by dark magic. The poisonous potion in the basin and whatever burned Dumbledore's arm are two examples. Yet Dumbledore is in possession of the mirror at Hogwarts, so it seems highly unlikely that the Mirror of Erised is a Horcrux.


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  #10  
Old August 10th, 2005, 11:59 am
StarAStar  Undisclosed.gif StarAStar is offline
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The unusual thing about Harry and The Mirror of Erised was not his "default" desire to be with his family, but his ability to desire saving the Stone from Voldemort without any desire for the immortality or wealth that possessing the Stone could grant.

The "Art" of the Horcrux has not been fully revealed by the books. Remember, we get a lot of "facts" from various characters which turn out to be significantly incomplete or total fabrications. (Everyone, "Knew", that Sirius Black was a DE, traitor, spy,... until
the end of Prisoner). The currently know Horcrux facts are:

1) A split part of one's soul can be encased in a separate object.
2) Anything? that would kill a person, does not bring true death but rips the
soul out of the body and keeps it from whatever system offers the CHOICE
to become a ghost or to pass on (through the vail?) and allows it to be
returned to a "cloned" body. This is because the separate piece of soul, not
affected by the attack on the main body, anchors ALL the pieces to this plane of
existance.
3) Murder is the only? way to split the soul.
4) Making a Horcrux is not too easy. Nobody, without some unstated preparation
can "Accidentally" create a Horcrux. (But if one is intending to create a Horcrux
something accidental could happen.)
5) The soul portion of a Horcrux can be destroyed
6) Lord Voldemort is unlikely to feel the destruction of a Horcrux

What we do not know:
1) When one murder's (or kills?) another (person, entity, creature,?), does
one ALWAYS tear apart one's soul? If yes, what is the long term implication?
Does the tear repair over time? How much? What does this tear, if not
repaired do to the total person? His "reception" at the veil?
2) How coupled in time is the murder and formation of a Horcrux. In space?
3) How many tears can a single soul take? (History implies unbounded)
4) Did Voldemort do anything about replacing the lost Diary Horcrux, when he
found out from Malfoy?

Also, we have established that Removing the Soul from a body does not kill the body:
The Dementor's Kiss "eats" the soul which is lost forever. (Memory and feelings seem
to be tied to the soul in this universe)
AK kills the body, releases the soul to make a choice (ghost or veil) unless anchored.


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  #11  
Old August 10th, 2005, 1:17 pm
minervamc  Undisclosed.gif minervamc is offline
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A very interesting editorial. Especially the idea of the mirror being an heirloom of Ravenclaw. However I have to agree with the previous post in that making a horcrux is not too easy.

Also there was never any proof that the mirror stayed at Hogwarts after the Philosopher's stone was removed from it. I was always under the impression that Dumbledore borrowed the mirror possibly from the Department of Mysteries, possibly it was in the room that was kept always locked. This would explain why it shows your heart's deepest desire.


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  #12  
Old August 10th, 2005, 1:36 pm
Ken45  Male.gif Ken45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morwenna
First, my compliments to Daniela for this well-written editorial.

For the first half of it, I was pretty convinced, but then I went over the Mirror scene from SS in my mind - Voldemort is interacting with the Mirror there, but does not show any hint that this is a special item for him. I'm not sure whether he's aware of what it exactly does, I'll have to read the scene again for that. From memory, I feel most of his conclusion rather came from Legilimency than knowledge of the artifact itself.

But certainly, Voldemort would not be too keen on starting a fistfight right in front of a fragile object which contains part of his soul, would he? With the ring cursed and the locket so well protected, I would assume there's at least some amount of protection for all of the horcruxes.
(Thinking of cursed jewellery... could the opal necklace have been Rowena Ravenclaw's, maybe even a gift of love from Godric? This would make a "double heirloom"... hmmmm... just thought about this now. Must check in the forums!)

What really got me thinking was the part about Sirius' mirror. This could be leading somwhere...

Once again, thanks for sharing this, Daniela!

Morwenna
I enjoyed reading your editorial, but I am somewhat skeptical too of what is a well thought out point. I really don't know too much on the Horcruxes, but here are my thoughts on them. Horcruxes ensure that you cannot be totally destroyed by encasing part of your soul in them. However, when Voldemort initially tried to kill Harry, he was forced to live as a spirit for years and could do nothing! What would the point of the Horcruxes be then if this would be your fate? Somehow, you must be able to use the Horcrux to regain your body, and this is where I disagree with you. If the mirror was a Horcrux, Voldemort would have extracted his soul from it to regain his bodily form. With my theory though, Voldemort would have used a Horcrux at his rebirth...His father's body perhaps? Who knows, I am getting way off topic. Nice editorial.


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  #13  
Old August 10th, 2005, 2:21 pm
s0ng0han  Female.gif s0ng0han is offline
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it was a brilliant editioral, though nearly all of them are!
it is a great theory, but in the philosophers stone when voldemort/quirrel and harry were with the mirror, Quirrel suggested breaking the mirror to get the stone out. Voldemort didnt object to it like you would expect if it was a horcrux. If you broke the mirror, the horcrux wont work anymore right?
Maybe JKR didn't want to give anything away though. But it is a good theory and worth thinking about.


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Old August 10th, 2005, 3:38 pm
HPFan637  Female.gif HPFan637 is offline
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Great editorial! I never thought the Mirror of Erised could be an heirloom or a horcrux! I don't think it is a horcrux though. When Quirrel/Voldemort was in the room with the mirror, he never made any indication that he had any ties with it. Why wouldn't he have gotten his soul out of it while he was there so he could return sooner? It maybe an heirloom, but I don't know. Sometimes I feel like we all want answers so bad we invent them!


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Old August 10th, 2005, 3:49 pm
Kandybar  Female.gif Kandybar is offline
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Interesting idea, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on both Harry and the mirror being horcruxes.

For Harry: We don't honestly know how a horcrux is created. It requires a murder for it to happen, but the spell/charm may need to be set up beforehand or may need to be done immediately following the murder. Plus, it may not be possible to insert part of a soul into something which already contains a soul. When the AK backfired, there was no murder - Voldemort became Vapormort, but he was not dead, and neither was Harry. Therefore, it should be impossible for a horcrux to be created in the process, no matter how the spell was set up. Some people claim that Lily or James' deaths could have been used in the spell instead, but I don't see that as being likely, since from what Slughorn says it seems the nature of the horcrux spell/charm must be directly related to a murder.

On the Mirror: I think if Dumbledore KNEW the Mirror was a horcrux he would have told Harry so. But, I think the biggest piece of evidence against the Mirror being a horcrux is the fact that in SS/PS Voldemort has no idea how the mirror works. Even he had somehow managed to be alone with the mirror/victim long enough to create a horcrux (which I doubt, unless he did it while in school, and he would have needed to know where the mirror would be beforehand), I think he would have researched the item a bit before putting his soul into it, at least to know what kind of powers it possessed.


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Old August 10th, 2005, 3:51 pm
I am S Black  Male.gif I am S Black is offline
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Good editorial, although, I don't believe that the Mirror is a Horcrux. I think an editorial would be better suited discussing the possibility of using the Mirror to find out what the other Horcruxes are.

That is to say, will Harry decide to give standing in front of the Mirror a go, and end up seeing himself holding the remaining Horcruxes. It might very not well show him where they are, but it will most likely show him WHAT they are, and HOW MANY left there are.

I think that's more believable and a fascinating approach if taken.


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  #17  
Old August 10th, 2005, 3:55 pm
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the forgotten Gryffindor artifact

Very nice article. But I wonder why no one has reflected upon the other Gryffindor artifact.... the Sorting Hat itself. I'm paraphrasing here, so bear with me... twas Gryffindor who found the way, he whipped me off his head. Here's the thing, we have been schooled by JK to have a healthy distrust of objects with brains where you can't see them (thanks Arthur Weasley), the most dangerous of which has been the Riddle Diary. But the Sorting hat could easily fall into this category and would have been readily accessible to a young Tom Riddle. Possible Horcrux? Just a point to ponder!


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Old August 10th, 2005, 4:16 pm
lily313  Undisclosed.gif lily313 is offline
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I really like the idea, I am S Black, of Harry looking into the Mirror of Erised to find or identify the other horcruxes. At this time of his life it would be his hearts deepest desire to find them. I think you're really onto something there. I just don't see anything in SS/PS that would indicate that Voldemort felt connected to the mirror.


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Old August 10th, 2005, 4:36 pm
funny_grrl  Female.gif funny_grrl is offline
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Very interesting theory, but I too tend to disagree. I think that the mirror may become important again, but I'm more apt to believe that Sirus/James mirror is more important... after all, that's what JKR said is "off limits." As pointed out by other posters, it seemed in PS/SS that LV did not know how to use the mirror. This is unlikely if he has already made it a Horcux. I think that the Horcux that JKR said we'd identify is the locket in Grimmauld Place... kinda obvious, but then she said that it was. Anyway, it's nice to get away from the Snape is/is not evil discussion, so good job on an interesting theory!

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am S Black
Good editorial, although, I don't believe that the Mirror is a Horcrux. I think an editorial would be better suited discussing the possibility of using the Mirror to find out what the other Horcruxes are.

That is to say, will Harry decide to give standing in front of the Mirror a go, and end up seeing himself holding the remaining Horcruxes. It might very not well show him where they are, but it will most likely show him WHAT they are, and HOW MANY left there are.

I think that's more believable and a fascinating approach if taken.
This in itself is an excellent idea, and would require Harry to return to Hogwarts as that is where the mirror is hidden. I think that as much as Harry wants to go out and hunt down the Horcuxes, he will be back at Hogwarts for at least a short time in 7.


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Old August 10th, 2005, 4:59 pm
tovarbaker  Undisclosed.gif tovarbaker is offline
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jason

Quote:
there are supposedly only four Horcruxes left, three of which have been identified by Harry and Dumbledore (locket, cup, Nagini), what does Rowling mean by "at least one"? Shouldn't she have said "the fourth one"?
this is a gross misunderstanding of JKR's comments. it seems obvious the what she meant was that the readers will be able to identify where at least one of the remaining horcruxs are. not what the remaining Horcrux is.

which I personally fell is what Harry's scar is... but we will wait to see if that is correct or not

I forgot to mention this part.

if the mirror of Erised was a horcrux Quirrellmort whould have known what the mirrior was when they were looking into it,

not the best of theories here today...


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