Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives

Harry and Ginny - Meant to Be v2



 
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old August 11th, 2005, 1:49 am
Jessica's Avatar
Jessica  Female.gif Jessica is offline
Mouse
 
Joined: 5554 days
Location: Between a rock & a hard place
Age: 44
Posts: 4,392
Harry and Ginny - Meant to Be v2

V1 is here: Harry and Ginny- Meant to be?

Last post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaraElizabeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceofBoe
Anyways, looking at it as a storytelling device, I think the brevity of the relationship in HBP was intentional. People say it felt "rushed", that suddenly Harry's feelings came along (which I disagree with, since there is strong evidence that he had feelings for her since the summer), suddenly they got together, and suddenly it was over - but I think that was intentional, because it's something that feels rushed to Harry as well. He's not able to relax and enjoy it, because he's not allowed to have true happiness. It's ironic that feelings and a relationship he doesn't particularly enjoy - with Cho - drag on for two years, while the relationship he does enjoy causes him turmoil for months and months, finally gives him a few weeks of happiness ... and then it has to end. That, I suppose, is the meaning of "neither can live while the other survives" - neither Harry or Voldemort can do what they want to do while the other one is alive, because they no the other is a threat - Voldemort sees Harry as a threat to himself, Harry sees Voldemort as a threat to Ginny while they're together. Therefore, they have to try and kill the other, to make their lives worth living - in Voldemort's case, the desire for power and immortality; in Harry's case, the desire for a normal, happy, peaceful life with people he loves.
I was thinking exactly the same thing when people started saying that the relationship was "rushed" or "too short". I don't think it was "rushed" at all, but it was very brief and I too think it was intentional because it was supposed to feel "too short" to Harry as well. I think this is what he meant when he told her "I wish I'd asked you sooner. We could've had ages, months, years maybe....". It was kind of a small glimpse of what a "normal" and happy life would be like for him. "Neither can live while the other survives" doesn't mean that Harry and Voldemort cant be alive while the other survives, but that Harry can't have a normal life or live life the way he wants to as long as Voldemort survives.


__________________
Everyone loves Bas Döse, me especially.
They're the best band in the world.
I love them even more than Snape and cats.
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old August 11th, 2005, 1:52 am
FaceofBoe's Avatar
FaceofBoe  Male.gif FaceofBoe is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4689 days
Location: Trudging slowly over wet sand
Posts: 1,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaraElizabeth
I think this is what he meant when he told her "I wish I'd asked you sooner. We could've had ages, months, years maybe....".
I think that's the most poignant line in the whole thing - it's like the Mirror of Erised, it can never be long enough. It also shows that Harry is thinking about how much he wants to spend "years" with her - quite serious thoughts for a 16 year old in a relationship. It has to be intentional that JKR didn't bring Harry and Ginny together until the chapter before "The Cave" - it happens right at the end, just as everything kicks off, just as it's too late for them to truly enjoy it, and right in the middle of Ginny's exams to boot. She probably always intended Harry to be alone in the seventh book, romantically, because he has too much to do - Ron and Hermione will provide most of the romance throughout Book 7, she seems to have been saving them for the next novel.


__________________
Ravenclaw
Chestnut and unicorn tail hair, 10 3/4 inches, unyielding
  #3  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:01 am
RemusLupinFan's Avatar
RemusLupinFan  Female.gif RemusLupinFan is offline
I want to believe
 
Joined: 5113 days
Location: The office in the basement
Posts: 5,897
I've never been much of a shipper, so I'll say right now that I really thought Ginny and Harry could go either way: I thought on the one hand, she could have gotten over Harry after CoS and that she'd move on with someone else; but on the other hand, I thought it was possible for them to get together simply because Ginny understands so much of what Harry is going through with Voldemort (mainly in OotP) since she had a similar experience with him herself.

In any case, I found it very interesting how Ginny says she had always waited for Harry since she had a crush on him in book 2 (or something similar), and I find it interesting that it takes such a while for Harry to realize he likes Ginny in that way. I also agree that the line quoted by SaraElizabeth above is very poignant, and I only hope that they will have "ages, months, and years" together in the future.


__________________

X-Files is the property of Ten Thirteen Productions, 20th Century Fox
WolfCloak30 Pottermore
  #4  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:08 am
_Zd_Phoenix_  Male.gif _Zd_Phoenix_ is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4727 days
Location: Oxford/Herts UK
Age: 34
Posts: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
JKR attaches a LOT of importance on and power to the capacity to love. Dumbledore practically yells this to Harry on JKR's behalf.

This might be an odd philosophy, but it is a very strong theme throughout all of the books.
She places importance on it but seriously if it all does turn out to be love that saves the day with Harry needing to 'sample' different types of it i'm gonna be crushed. I'm a very sentimental person and rarely find anything to be saccharine, but finding out Harry has had to collect love in order beat voldemort? That'd be cloying us with it.

I don't mind love being a central theme, I don't mind if Harry's love helps him to be more powerful, but he's a wizard fgs, if all of the books and his education have built up to love saving the day rather than Harry I'll feel thoroughly cheated. Similarly if he has to be metaphorically holding Ginny's hand to do anything.

I certainly wouldn't call it an odd philosophy though, I'd call it a cliche.


__________________
- - -

  #5  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:16 am
MissingOctober  Female.gif MissingOctober is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5005 days
Location: Through the Looking Glass...
Age: 31
Posts: 449
Ginny and Harry are something. I posted at another thread saying I think that Ginny and Harry are going to have a little talk at The Burrow during Bill and Fleur's wedding. I imagine that they are going to discuss their future and the possibility of reuniting once all is said and done. That is the main reason why they cannot be together- Voldemort. So, I imagine that once Harry defeats him Ginny and Harry will be free to start some sort of life.

Yeah, they are young, but I think that they know now that they are meant to be. Things can always change and happen, but Ginny and Harry are always going to have these feelings for each other. The fact that Ginny has always kept her feelings proves how deep her love is when she didn't even know it. I think that that one poignant line is sort of JK's hint to us all. Harry will survive, and Ginny will be there when it is all over. She is going to give him this hug and he is going to be all bruised up. I imagine a scene such as the one where Ginny led Harry away from Dumbledore's body that night. Everyone is going to be calling to Harry, but the only voice he will hear will be Ginny's, and he will reach for her.


__________________
"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.

And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"

Alice in Wonderland


Last edited by MissingOctober; August 11th, 2005 at 3:04 am.
  #6  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:18 am
mugglemeg  Female.gif mugglemeg is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4693 days
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 332
I don't know if Harry has been "collecting love", but through his own compassion, he certainly has been collecting favors and true followers. People who will fight with him out of love, not out of fear as the Death Eaters do. People who, like Ginny, love him because of his now rather single-minded purpose. I don't think we'll be disappointed with the final battle, Zd, but I do think that the years of collecting loyal, loving friends will eventually be the deciding factor in who wins that battle.

As to the thread topic, Ginny's role in the above is important, but not necesarily all that different than Ron or Hermione's. I would say yes, they're "meant to be", just as the trio were "meant to be" friends. Each of them brings a different relationship and a different strength to Harry's quest.


__________________
overeducated and underemployed
  #7  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:22 am
MissingOctober  Female.gif MissingOctober is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5005 days
Location: Through the Looking Glass...
Age: 31
Posts: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Zd_Phoenix_
if all of the books and his education have built up to love saving the day rather than Harry I'll feel thoroughly cheated. Similarly if he has to be metaphorically holding Ginny's hand to do anything.

I certainly wouldn't call it an odd philosophy though, I'd call it a cliche.
I kind of agree. I hate sounding all ship-like. What you said would be so cliche, I agree. If Love is what decides who wins the battle, than that would be such a let down. Love is fine and all, but they can always love when it is all said and done. Ginny will still be there after.


__________________
"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.

And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"

Alice in Wonderland

  #8  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:26 am
Firebolt2004's Avatar
Firebolt2004  Female.gif Firebolt2004 is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4920 days
Location: Cloud nine
Posts: 1,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingOctober
Ginny and Harry are something. I posted at another thread that I think that Ginny and Harry are going to have a little talk at The Burrow during Bill andFleur's wedding. I imagine that they are going to discuss their future and the possibility of them reuniting once all is said and done. That is the main reason why they cannot be together- Voldemort. So, I imaginge that once Harry defeats him Ginny and Harry will be free to start some sort of life, if they are even really going to be ready for such a commitment so young.

Yeah, they are young, but I think that they know now that they are meant to be. Thigns can always change adn happen, but Ginny and Harry are always going to have these feeligns for each other. The fact that Ginny has always kept her feelings proves how deep her love is when she didn't even know it. I think that that one poignant line is sort of JK's hint to us all. Harry will survive, and Ginny will be there when it is all over. She is going to give him this hug and he is going to be all bruised up. I imagine a scene such as the one where Ginny led Harry away from Dumbledore's body that night. Everyone is going to be calling to Harry, but the only voice he will here will be Ginny's, and he will reach for her.

I loved that scene too. It was like, Harry wasn't even aware of anything else, but when he felt Giny's hand in his hand he instinctively knew to trust it and let it lead him away, even though he didn't realize until a few moments later that it was Ginny.
I absolutely loved the way H/G was written by JKR . I know critics feel that it was too rushed, too short etc, but it's beautiful scenes like this and the break-up where Harry regrets he didn't ask her months or years ago or his thoughts after the kiss where he doesn't know how much time went by while they were kissing that give us an idea of the trueness and the depth of feelings between the two.


  #9  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:33 am
Greeney's Avatar
Greeney  Male.gif Greeney is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 4690 days
Location: HPSurvivor.com
Age: 32
Posts: 1,729
I think Ginny is going to have a big part near the end of seven, since Ginny's the only power Harry has that Voldemort doesn't. I don't like the idea of destiny, but I can't see them not having feelings for each other even if broken up. :P


__________________
  #10  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:34 am
SaraElizabeth  Female.gif SaraElizabeth is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4714 days
Location: Australia
Age: 30
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceofBoe
I think that's the most poignant line in the whole thing - it's like the Mirror of Erised, it can never be long enough. It also shows that Harry is thinking about how much he wants to spend "years" with her - quite serious thoughts for a 16 year old in a relationship. It has to be intentional that JKR didn't bring Harry and Ginny together until the chapter before "The Cave" - it happens right at the end, just as everything kicks off, just as it's too late for them to truly enjoy it, and right in the middle of Ginny's exams to boot. She probably always intended Harry to be alone in the seventh book, romantically, because he has too much to do - Ron and Hermione will provide most of the romance throughout Book 7, she seems to have been saving them for the next novel.
It's quite sad when you think about it. Being with Ginny made Harry so happy, but he doesn't get a chance to really enjoy it (which, as I said, I think is intentional). While he's at school either Ginny is studying most of the time or Harry has a detention with Snape, who kept him longer and longer each time. Then Harry has to dash of to go find the Horcrux with Dumbledore. Then he comes back and the school is under attack and then Dumbledore dies. Poor Harry, what a life. I know this is off- topic, but since you mentioned Ron and Hermione, I think someone should just lock them in a broom cupboard and refuse to let them out until they get over themselves and get together already!!


  #11  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:40 am
Hermyeloquenc  Undisclosed.gif Hermyeloquenc is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4674 days
Posts: 52
I think that Harry and Ginny were meant to be together. I think in the end they will end up back together again as well. As Harry says in the book is, he didn't want her to get hurt again by LV. Being friends and part of D.A. together, she was already put in harms way. I think that proves that Harry really cares about her that he doesn't want her dead or hurt. Knowing that LV and his Death Eaters go after those closest to their enemy, I feel that Harry is only trying to protect Ginny. I have faith that they'll be back together though.


  #12  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:49 am
Bunny's Avatar
Bunny  Female.gif Bunny is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 5057 days
Location: Mornin'
Age: 64
Posts: 2,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Zd_Phoenix_
She places importance on it but seriously if it all does turn out to be love that saves the day with Harry needing to 'sample' different types of it i'm gonna be crushed. I'm a very sentimental person and rarely find anything to be saccharine, but finding out Harry has had to collect love in order beat voldemort? That'd be cloying us with it.

I don't mind love being a central theme, I don't mind if Harry's love helps him to be more powerful, but he's a wizard fgs, if all of the books and his education have built up to love saving the day rather than Harry I'll feel thoroughly cheated. Similarly if he has to be metaphorically holding Ginny's hand to do anything.

I certainly wouldn't call it an odd philosophy though, I'd call it a cliche.
It can't be just wizardry though, that wouldn't be right.
The books have hinged on the realities with witchcraft and wizardry as sort of the icing.
I don't think that it will be just love, but it has to be that to a certain extent as this is the thing that Voldemort can't abide and it must be love that either finally defeats him or opens him up so that he can be defeated.

I also think that if it was a surge of emotion that forced Voldemort out of possessing Harry, how much more of a surge will he have when he sees who is fighting with him and I do include Ginny in this as I think she may be instrumental in helping Harry focus on what he needs to do. I do think that they will be together again, certainly in the last battle.

In all of the books where Harry has faced Voldemort, he has always been alone at the end. I wonder, is this pattern going to continue or is he going to be backed up by supporters and loved ones. I know that it is only he that can defeat Voldemort, but with people behind him he will have such power.


__________________
"The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'."
- Larry Hardiman

Everyone has a photographic memory ... some, like me, just don't have any film
  #13  
Old August 11th, 2005, 2:59 am
MissingOctober  Female.gif MissingOctober is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5005 days
Location: Through the Looking Glass...
Age: 31
Posts: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebolt2004
it's beautiful scenes like this and the break-up where Harry regrets he didn't ask her months or years ago or his thoughts after the kiss where he doesn't know how much time went by while they were kissing that give us an idea of the trueness and the depth of feelings between the two.
I absolutely agree. Scenes like that really show us the depth of Ginny and Harry's feelings. The fact that Harry contemplated a possibility that they could have been together, proves that she always stood out in his mind. Their relationship wasn't really rushed, because in six their were hints, and also in OOTP there were some hints that she would be important. Ginny began to stand out more in our minds. It was clear that Ginny was going to make a future impact because as we and Harry got to know her personality, she began to impress us.

Also, I don't think in COS he found her as this annoying little sister of Ron. I think that he just found her as sweet, and that idea sort of sinked in to the back of his mind. Once she proved that she was more than what he expected her to be as time went on, she won him over.


__________________
"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.

And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"

Alice in Wonderland

  #14  
Old August 11th, 2005, 3:10 am
SaraElizabeth  Female.gif SaraElizabeth is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4714 days
Location: Australia
Age: 30
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebolt2004
I loved that scene too. It was like, Harry wasn't even aware of anything else, but when he felt Giny's hand in his hand he instinctively knew to trust it and let it lead him away, even though he didn't realize until a few moments later that it was Ginny.
That is my favourite Harry and Ginny scene. I really can't see how anyone can call the relationship "shallow" when there are scenes like this one. Lavender and Ron were "shallow", Harry and Ginny were not. I'm not saying that they are "madly in lurrrrrve" with each other, but I think it's definitely deeper than just a crush or an infatuation.


  #15  
Old August 11th, 2005, 3:14 am
irishjayhawk  Male.gif irishjayhawk is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4695 days
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Age: 30
Posts: 236
Doh, I thought the thread died.....

I will say, as people mentioned in version 1, that I think the Weasley's were graced with a daughter for the sole purpose of giving Harry what he's always needed: family/mate/normality.

In that sense they really are "meant to be" but that doesn't change the fact that the end battle could be really sappy if she chooses to exercise some of the possiblities.


  #16  
Old August 11th, 2005, 3:17 am
sparkly's Avatar
sparkly  Female.gif sparkly is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4691 days
Location: Nevernever
Posts: 1,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Zd_Phoenix_
She places importance on it but seriously if it all does turn out to be love that saves the day with Harry needing to 'sample' different types of it i'm gonna be crushed. I'm a very sentimental person and rarely find anything to be saccharine, but finding out Harry has had to collect love in order beat voldemort? That'd be cloying us with it.

I don't mind love being a central theme, I don't mind if Harry's love helps him to be more powerful, but he's a wizard fgs, if all of the books and his education have built up to love saving the day rather than Harry I'll feel thoroughly cheated. Similarly if he has to be metaphorically holding Ginny's hand to do anything.

I certainly wouldn't call it an odd philosophy though, I'd call it a cliche.


I think JKR fully intends to place a lot of emphasis on love as the key to defeating Voldermort, but if I understand you correctly, it's not just romantic love that will be a central part of the story. In 'sampling' different kinds of love, Harry has learned that he can rely on other people to help him in his quest. Just like Frodo wouldn't have destroyed the Ring without Sam (or Gollum, actually, but that's not relevant here), Harry will arrive at the final moment with the help of his friends and family. Harry will need the love he gives to and receives from Ron, Hermione, Ginny, the Weasleys, Dumbledore and Sirius and many others to get to that moment.

Voldermort is a wizard, with many more years of experience and a lower threshold for causing pain to get what he wants. Harry is overmatched in the skills department. The only advantage he has is that he's fighting for something - the life he can have if Voldermort is defeated. Harry has more to gain than Voldermort has to lose, and that's one of Harry's weapons.

I think Harry will face the confrontation alone. But his journey will be all about love, and the choices he's made.


  #17  
Old August 11th, 2005, 3:18 am
_Zd_Phoenix_  Male.gif _Zd_Phoenix_ is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4727 days
Location: Oxford/Herts UK
Age: 34
Posts: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunny
but with people behind him he will have such power.
There's a difference between having power and using power.

Alot of Harry's 'achievments' so far have been lucky, I would want the end to be something from him rather than something else (love for example) doing it for him.

Wizarding hasn't done all that much for him as it is. I've stayed with him through 6 years of him attending a wizard school and being built up as being special...I want some specialness and wizardry!!!

- - -

No Sparkly, you didn't quite get what I meant. Love being powerful and all...cliche but hey it can be good. however the idea that Harry can use love whereas all of these other loving characters can't is ridiculous to me, so if it's just love in the end i'm going to be very frustrated.


__________________
- - -


Last edited by _Zd_Phoenix_; August 11th, 2005 at 3:21 am.
  #18  
Old August 11th, 2005, 3:19 am
FaceofBoe's Avatar
FaceofBoe  Male.gif FaceofBoe is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4689 days
Location: Trudging slowly over wet sand
Posts: 1,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaraElizabeth
That is my favourite Harry and Ginny scene. I really can't see how anyone can call the relationship "shallow" when there are scenes like this one. Lavender and Ron were "shallow", Harry and Ginny were not. I'm not saying that they are "madly in lurrrrrve" with each other, but I think it's definitely deeper than just a crush or an infatuation.
I agree - I've noticed that although Ron warns them about it, there is never one scene of Harry and Ginny "snogging", in a Won-Won sense. That's not what their relationship is built on - it's built on empathy, compassion, trust, understanding, and enjoyment of each other's company. It's a mature teenage romance, of the kind that may very well lead to a very long-term, committed relationship (again, if both survive and if both want to revive the relationship when the battle's over). JKR seems to like bringing couples together at school, anyway - James and Lily, Arthur and Molly, and probably the Lestranges, all got together as teenagers.


__________________
Ravenclaw
Chestnut and unicorn tail hair, 10 3/4 inches, unyielding
  #19  
Old August 11th, 2005, 3:30 am
irishjayhawk  Male.gif irishjayhawk is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4695 days
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Age: 30
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkly
I think JKR fully intends to place a lot of emphasis on love as the key to defeating Voldermort, but if I understand you correctly, it's not just romantic love that will be a central part of the story. In 'sampling' different kinds of love, Harry has learned that he can rely on other people to help him in his quest. Just like Frodo wouldn't have destroyed the Ring without Sam (or Gollum, actually, but that's not relevant here), Harry will arrive at the final moment with the help of his friends and family. Harry will need the love he gives to and receives from Ron, Hermione, Ginny, the Weasleys, Dumbledore and Sirius and many others to get to that moment.

Voldermort is a wizard, with many more years of experience and a lower threshold for causing pain to get what he wants. Harry is overmatched in the skills department. The only advantage he has is that he's fighting for something - the life he can have if Voldermort is defeated. Harry has more to gain than Voldermort has to lose, and that's one of Harry's weapons.

I think Harry will face the confrontation alone. But his journey will be all about love, and the choices he's made.
Alot like Cinderella Man.

What a brilliant point. He has something to fight for. It isn't fame, power, or glory; it is normality, love, and safety for all. Those three are much stronger together than the other three. Just like the tripod (aka trio)

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Zd_Phoenix_

No Sparkly, you didn't quite get what I meant. Love being powerful and all...cliche but hey it can be good. however the idea that Harry can use love whereas all of these other loving characters can't is ridiculous to me, so if it's just love in the end i'm going to be very frustrated.
For once, I must admit you have a point. As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, why was Voldemort able to reside in Ginny's body when she can love?

Furthermore, if love is so powerful why is Harry the only one that can defeat him with love? Surely others do.

I think though, that she will weave "Choice" into the equation, along with the "right and easy." Hopefully this is the distinction that needs to be made before staring at Voldemort while snogging Ginny and making him spontaneously combust.


  #20  
Old August 11th, 2005, 3:38 am
Bunny's Avatar
Bunny  Female.gif Bunny is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 5057 days
Location: Mornin'
Age: 64
Posts: 2,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Zd_Phoenix_
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunny
but with people behind him he will have such power.
There's a difference between having power and using power.

Alot of Harry's 'achievments' so far have been lucky, I would want the end to be something from him rather than something else (love for example) doing it for him.

Wizarding hasn't done all that much for him as it is. I've stayed with him through 6 years of him attending a wizard school and being built up as being special...I want some specialness and wizardry!!!
I agree that there is a difference but he can't use it if he doesn't have it and I think that he will - he'll focus it on Voldemort.
To do that he will have to use the advantage that he has and that is that is his connection with Voldemort.
Dumbledore said that Harry had been able to 'see' into Voldemorts mind without being harmed whilst it wasn't possible the other way round. I think that is why he has his mothers eyes and the scar gives him access.
I think that there will be specialness and wizardry, but love will be the key.


__________________
"The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'."
- Larry Hardiman

Everyone has a photographic memory ... some, like me, just don't have any film
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:33 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.