Development of Snape's character through HBP v. 3

[thestralgrin]

Slightly backward monster post warning:

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

I agree with the person who wrote that they will need to be locked in a room with a bottle of wine just to find out what happens to Snape

T'was me

Originally Posted by subtle science

Neither time does he talk down to Filch (actually, there's a sense of equality--as I've noted before, rigidly proper adult Snape actually cracks a bit in conversation with Filch and swears mildly).

I wonder how much of a partnership the two of them had in Snape's school days - there are references by the marauders to Snape always snooping around, and I'm not sure if it was mentioned somewhere that he involved Filch in this (i.e - was a bit of a dobber) ... though, considering some of the dangerous antics the marauders got up to - say - about three nights a month, maybe that wasnt such a bad thing. The two of them might have had a long-standing mutual respect based on a mutual understanding & interest in keeping the rules. Interesting that Snape is not that fond of Mrs. Norris, though ... anyway why does that cat have a name like that?

Originally Posted by mdeligan

I haven't looked at HBP in a while. Unlike the other books, I walk around it like it is plutonium on my bookshelf. In a sense I am dreading the final book.

I re-read the whole book all the way through recently, for a parody I wrote (won't link here - has some inappropriate-for-this-board fandom references), and I found it *very hard* to write the scene in the cave & on the tower in a way that didnt detract from the basic humor of the piece, but didnt deny the gravity of what was happening either.

Originally Posted by subtle science

Snape's being stuck as a staff member under Headmaster Lupin...He might just start dipping into that Draught of Living Death............................

... which is another thing that Snape tends to do a lot in Fanon I noticed (as well as smoking, drinking Scotch, smelling of cinnamon - and wearing black silk boxers )

But besides that, someone mentioned a while back about what would have happened if Harry had been sorted into Griffindor. Another "What-If" - what if Lupin had turned his back on the marauders (at whatever cost to himself - including any worst-case scenarios i.e being exposed & expelled), after the WW incident - or SWM? What would Snape have thought of him - and would Black & Potter simply have added another victim to their list? Bullies *will* turn on those who support their targets in any way - even passive ways, such as refusing to further help the bully.

Originally Posted by subtle science

Dumbledore was always the mitigating figure between the two of them. One repercussion of his death is that buffer is removed, and Harry and Snape are going to have to deal with each other on their own terms, without that mediator.

Which may, in the end, be the only way - letting the two of them sock it out (and hopefully not kill each other in the process). Like the sort of thing you see happen in a lot of cowboy films between two good guys who hold a Big Grudge between each other.

Originally Posted by fallingrock

Willow for sallow, willow for mourning, willow for Lily . . . I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

And it is from a species of willow, I believe, that asprin was first made.

Originally Posted by fallingrock

I also think Snape would make an excellent Headmaster, if only he can refrain from the term "dunderheads" in his beginning of term speech.

Or do what a headmaster of a very large school I heard of did at his end-of-year speech - informed the pupils that, by the time they came back from holidays, x-number of them would probably be dead according to statistics. But I definitely agree - if he can get on top of his demons in a deeper way (again, something good that could come out of a successful sock-out session between him & Harry - as long as Harry learns *his* bit too). He certainly wouldnt stand for nursing any future Voldemorts through the school while he was in charge.

Originally Posted by Jaguarundi

I almost feel bad saying that I loved the ending of HBP. I finally got the feeling that things were going to be resolved next book.

When I read the ending, I got another Deja-Vu feeling from another fanfic I read (I've lost the link), where Snape fled from Hogwarts just after a battle ... though for a different reason.

Originally Posted by alxlan11

Snape has really had to suffer lately and to have him die to save Harry or someone would really dissapoint me. He has had to endure so many misfortunes and he was bullied in school so i really hope JKR doesnt make his life more sad and sorrowfull. I am hoping that Snape will end up happy somewhere knowing that he did his part to avenge Lilly Potter's murderer and restore peace to the wizarding world.

The man definitely needs to be given a biscuit after all he's been through. I just hope this (pre-hbp) dream a friend of mine had (who is not a Snape fan post-hbp) turns out to be true:

I had this dream last night that I was at a dinner party hosted by Snape, and at one point I was in his bathroom where he had discarded a robe on the floor--the tag said "Miserable Old Git, Size Medium" and I remember thinking in the dream "wow, I have to tell ***** about this" so now I have. :P

Though *some* may find the very idea of a non-miserable!Snape retch-worthy, I think a resolution to the series that brings a realistically attainable peace to him as well as the others who survive would, I think, send out some pretty good messages about what can be possible if you just gave the nerd a chance.

Originally Posted by alxlan11

All his life he has been seen a a kniving and self important person and he has just committed the ultimate act of selflessness that no one may ever know about.

Except maybe Dumbledore, and the rest of the paintings. And interesting that those who call him things like that tend to have a few of those tendencies themselves.

(Random thought ... back to the Flitwick/Imperio theme for a moment - what if he wasn't the *only* member of the staff under that? It'd be possible to slip over in the shadows and Imperio someone like McGonagall if she was busy fighting. Once someone is under the curse, they remain susceptible to the spell-caster so you don't have to give them any orders straight away for it to work)

Originally Posted by Potency

but my understanding is that JKR really liked Sirius Black...

Though She is aware of his strengths, she is hesitant to like him too much: read here.

(before I forget again) - welcome, alxlan11

[silver ink pot]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

By the way, am I the only one who thinks Snape invests a lot of time and attention on his appearance? Not in the traditional way of improving it - but I think he realised quite early that his features can intimidate, so he's sort of built an image around himself using that to his advantage. He's quite theatrical that way - I think he probably spends a lot of money on his clothes.

I agree that Snape has "created" a certain "look" for himself - very distinctive and dark. However, with his background and his rather simple taste, I can't see him being a clothes horse who spends alot of money. The whole point is that he isn't ostentatious, like Lockhart, and he always wears the same clothes, not even varying the color the way some professors do. No, I don't think Snape spends a dime more than he has to.

Originally Posted by Morgan LeFay

I recall the latest episode of Gilmore Girls and there was a line judge says:
"If there is something I hate , it's rich kids who think the world is their personal playground." I agree with this wholeheartly.

Great quote - and it really fits James and Sirius.

Originally Posted by subtle science

The scene in the books that really sends me into orbit is the 12GP kitchen scene in OotP; every time I re-read it, my blood pressure goes up. I get very close to wishing that Snape had laid a hex on Sirius.....!

Me too!

[Sly_Lady]

You know, when I think of a Book 7 happy ending for Snape, I don't imagine him transforming into cheery old Dumbledore, tossing out happy little jokes and charming us with lighthearted nonsense. None of the "Nitwit, Oddment, Blubber and Tweak" style of headmaster. But Snape's experienced a lot in his life, sets high standards for himself and others, is extremely intelligent, and if in the end he manages to come to terms with his miserable, painful past, he'll have learned great wisdom, and I see him being a fine Headmaster of Hogwarts, hopefully a quite different one from sweet old Phineas Nigellus!

I hope he wouldn't lose the sarcasm though, or his endearing way of tossing off an insult when it's called for, or he wouldn't be the Snape we all love any more, would he?

[Chrysalis]

Snape would make quite an excellent headmaster. Very different from Phineas. Strict, but fair. He might not be the most popular one ever but not unlikely one of the most competent.

[Jaguarundi]

Quote from Norbertha:
If Regulus was in any way involved, I would guess he was just used by Sirius as a link for communication between him and Snape. Regulus is younger than Sirius, and from what Sirius says about him (gullible, idiot), it sounds like Sirius didn’t think Regulus had any backbone – which means that he could use him. I picture Sirius bossing the young Regulus around quite a lot. So he could have used Regulus as a messenger, since he’s in Slytherin and has access to Snape in their common room. But other than that, I don’t think Regulus was involved.

(Later, Regulus did grow a backbone – he decided to leave Voldemort, even if it would cost him his life, and was possibly the one who stole his locket horcrux before he left.)

I don't like coincidences though. It seems suspicious in my mind that certain events happened close together.

-The Prank, either during the Marauder's 5th or 6th year (since Sirius was 16)
-Regulus, who became a DE, probably was a member of the soon-to-be DEs at Hogwarts (Snape's infamous gang)...Sirius fingers Snape as member as well
-the fact that Sirius left home at 16...almost as if he had no reason to stay there any more...did he give up on Regulus?...why hadn't he left earlier (considering what a loose cannon Sirius is)

Add to that these issues:
-we hear of no punishment for the Prank
-the other Marauders were not involved...if Snape's snooping concerned them all why not include them?
-Sirius speaks of Regulus, not with contempt IMO, but with bitterness and maybe even a little affection (the "Stupid idiot" line)
-Sirius expresses no remorse about the incident
-Why would Dumbledore allow Sirius to stay at Hogwarts? Snape thinks Dumbledore was hoodwinked...but perhaps Dumbledore has access to information that Snape does not

[alxlan11]

Originally Posted by subtle science

Norbertha
The scene in the books that really sends me into orbit is the 12GP kitchen scene in OotP; every time I re-read it, my blood pressure goes up. I get very close to wishing that Snape had laid a hex on Sirius.....!

At that point snape had caused the death of his best friend by being a treachorous little snitch. I know that if the person responsible for the closest person i ever had to family's death i would hate them no matter whether they were good or evil.

[subtle science]

alxlan11--I don't quite know what you mean. I was referring to the kitchen scene at 12 GP in OotP, and Sirius knows nothing of the revelations of Book 6...??????? Besides the fact that a major factor in the Potters' deaths was Sirius' less-than-brilliant idea to switch Secret Keepers, not only to Peter Pettigrew--but to neglect to inform Dumbledore.

Jaguarundi--What coincidences? That Regulus went to Hogwarts, too? There is nothing in the books to give any indication that Regulus was involved in setting up Snape--if he were, then Lupin is quite a liar at the end of PoA. He must deliberately be telling an entirely false story which, for some reason, Sirius agrees to--even though it casts him in yet another ghastly light. It would be another instance of Sirius' being falsely accused, and even a supposed best friend, then, apparently wants to spread the false rumor, right in front of Sirius...

What does Regulus' eventually becoming a DE have to do with sending Snape to the Willow? And Sirius does not finger Snape as a member of the DEs--in fact, he says the exact opposite in GoF. And Sirius also explains why he left home, and Regulus doesn't factor into his decision at all--he says nothing of 'giving up' on his brother; Regulus has little to no significance to Sirius.

What other Marauders? Only Pettigrew is another Marauder...the other three are involved?

Possibly this is all venturing into Decon territory, rather than DevSev??

Random reaction--Yeah--if Snape could slightly improve his temperament, I think he actually would be a good Head of School....At least people wouldn't wonder where he stood on any issues!!!! : )

[fallingrock]

So many excellent posts I'd like to respond to . . . so little time . . . But for now . . .

Originally Posted by alxlan11

At that point snape had caused the death of his best friend by being a treachorous little snitch. I know that if the person responsible for the closest person i ever had to family's death i would hate them no matter whether they were good or evil.

Why does Snape get all the blame for James' and Lily's deaths? Sirius played a part as well, and even James and Lily. James and Lily chose not to use Dumbledore and Sirius persuaded them to use Peter instead. I admit that Snape is more culpable in the fact that he was spying for Voldemort and was the one that gave him the prophecy but there seems to be a pattern of no one taking accountability for their own actions, but thrusting all the deaths at Snape's feet. Harry does the same when Sirius dies. It's Snape's fault even though Snape alerted the members as soon as he had figured out where Harry had gone and told Sirius to remain behind. In Harry's mind, he and Sirius are not to blame for their rash actions that led to the tragedy, it is only Snape's fault.

Regarding Snape following the last book and his pattern of redemption. When I think of redemption in a religious sense, I think that forgiveness is a key aspect. Our sins are forgiven by God, no matter how terrible, but we must also forgive ourselves and embrace hope. I hope that this is what happens to Snape. He will learn to forgive himself, let the past go, and move forward in life. I think he needs Harry's help to do this. I think he will retain many aspects of his personality, the ones I love the most, his sarcasm, his perfectionism, etc . . .

I'll be back!!!

[silver ink pot]

Originally Posted by Sly_Lady

You know, when I think of a Book 7 happy ending for Snape, I don't imagine him transforming into cheery old Dumbledore, tossing out happy little jokes and charming us with lighthearted nonsense. None of the "Nitwit, Oddment, Blubber and Tweak" style of headmaster. But Snape's experienced a lot in his life, sets high standards for himself and others, is extremely intelligent, and if in the end he manages to come to terms with his miserable, painful past, he'll have learned great wisdom, and I see him being a fine Headmaster of Hogwarts, hopefully a quite different one from sweet old Phineas Nigellus!

One thing we know about Snape: he is around everywhere, and would never be as aloof as Dumbledore. I think that would be an improvement!

Originally Posted by Jaguarundi

Add to that these issues:
-we hear of no punishment for the Prank
-the other Marauders were not involved...if Snape's snooping concerned them all why not include them?

All the Marauders are involved as far as we know. Lupin is the werewolf, Sirius told Snape to go there, and James saved his life. We can guess that Peter might have been the one who helped James get into the tunnel in order to "save" Snape. Peter's job as a small animagus was to run under the branches and touch the knot on the tree trunk. So we can guess that Peter might have been involved, even though Dumbledore probably never knew that, since he didn't know all of them were animagi.

Originally Posted by Jaguarundi

Sirius speaks of Regulus, not with contempt IMO, but with bitterness and maybe even a little affection (the "Stupid idiot" line)

That is debatable. Sirius makes his sweeping "lifetime of service or death" speech about Regulus, and you can make a case that he calls Regulus an idiot because the boy thought he could get away from Voldemort.

I have relatives that I would call "idiots" and I assure you there is no affection involved. That is my opinion of them, just as I believe that is Sirius's opinion of Regulus.

Originally Posted by Jaguarundi

-Sirius expresses no remorse about the incident

Why is that surprising? He says he thought it "served him right." Sirius nearly always thinks he is right in every situation.

Originally Posted by Jaguarundi

Why would Dumbledore allow Sirius to stay at Hogwarts? Snape thinks Dumbledore was hoodwinked...but perhaps Dumbledore has access to information that Snape does not

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I can't think of any canon connecting Regulus to the Whomping Willow incident, except that he was Sirius's brother. However, we know he wasn't a Marauder. The only mention we have of the two of them at school doesn't even come from Sirius, but from Slughorn.

The thing that really gets me about Sirius is that he rejected his biological brother for his Gryffindor "brothers." Sirius ran away from home, which many people see as "noble," but it is also still "running away" from a problem. He was nearly "of age" at 16 anyway, so I've never seen the point exactly.

It's clear Sirius didn't have alot of family affection or loyalty. He says the reason he left is because he

"hated the whole lot of them: my parents with their pure-blood mania, convinced that to be a Black made you practically royal . . . my idiot brother, soft enough to believe them . . . that's him." Sirius jabbed a finger at the very bottom of the tree, at the name REGULUS BLACK. A date of death (some fifteen years previously) followed the date of birth.

"He was younger than me," said Sirius, "and a much better son, as I was constantly reminded."

"But he died," said Harry.

"Yeah, " said Sirius. "Stupid idiot . . . he joined the Death Eaters."

. . . "I bet my parents thought Regulus was a right little hero for joining up at first."

"Was he killed by an auror?" Harry asked tentatively.

"Oh no," said Sirius. "No, he was murdered by Voldemort. Or on Voldemort's orders, more likely. I doubt Regulus was ever important enough to be killed by Voldemort in person. From what I found out after he died, he got in so far, then panicked about what he was being asked to do and tried to back out. Well, you don't just hand in your resignation to Voldemort. It's a lifetime of service or death."

I don't know how Sirius "found out" this information about Regulus, since we know that Sirius has a lack of knowledge about DEs in general. I think that is an instance of Sirius jumping to conclusions again, as he does about Karkaroff, Snape, Bertha, and others.

To me, he sounds as if he was jealous of his brother at home. But after they got to Hogwarts, Regulus was an "idiot" for following the family tradition and going into Slytherin, and then into the DEs. However, he's no more a real idiot that Draco, and Draco seems pretty clever in HBP, though confused and overwrought about his predicament.

Sirius had the courage of his convictions, backed up by the rest of the Marauders. He saw Regulus as weak, but we know that Sirius has flawed perceptions of alot of people, especially Snape. With Snape he attacks the "surface" and the "look," but is totally insensitive to the human being. Why should we expect that he was ever sensitive to Regulus? Or that he ever included him in anything?

[Sly_Lady]

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

Sirius had the courage of his convictions, backed up by the rest of the Marauders. He saw Regulus as weak, but we know that Sirius has flawed perceptions of alot of people, especially Snape. With Snape he attacks the "surface" and the "look," but is totally insensitive to the human being. Why should we expect that he was ever sensitive to Regulus? Or that he ever included him in anything?

Sirius was frequently off base in his judgements, and after Azkaban was still carrying the same notions about people that he had going in. Even in a best-case scenario, I'd have doubts about asking a guy with issues his opinion of his brother. Siblings are not always the best judge, at least when they are young. So his feeling that Regulus was pretty useless is not something I'd give much credence to.

I look forward to getting the whole Regulus story in book 7. If he is actually the one who replaced the locket it's going to be fascinating!

[Jaguarundi]

Quote from subtle science:
Jaguarundi--What coincidences? That Regulus went to Hogwarts, too? There is nothing in the books to give any indication that Regulus was involved in setting up Snape--if he were, then Lupin is quite a liar at the end of PoA. He must deliberately be telling an entirely false story which, for some reason, Sirius agrees to--even though it casts him in yet another ghastly light. It would be another instance of Sirius' being falsely accused, and even a supposed best friend, then, apparently wants to spread the false rumor, right in front of Sirius...

What does Regulus' eventually becoming a DE have to do with sending Snape to the Willow? And Sirius does not finger Snape as a member of the DEs--in fact, he says the exact opposite in GoF. And Sirius also explains why he left home, and Regulus doesn't factor into his decision at all--he says nothing of 'giving up' on his brother; Regulus has little to no significance to Sirius.

I never said that Sirius said that Snape was a DE...I said Sirius had fingered him as a member of the soon-to-be DEs. Nor did I suggest Regulus knew anything about the actual Prank...indeed my line of thinking is running in the opposite direction.

Half-Blood Prince showed us that Dumbledore will allow an attempted murderer to stay at Hogwarts for one reason...if they believe that they are doing their killing to "save" a family member.

Everyone wonders why Sirius would send Snape into the Willow...if Sirius felt that Snape was a driving force behind Regulus's "fall" then I can easily see him doing it. And, more importantly, I can see Dumbledore understanding it.

It should be noted that PoA it is Lupin who does a lot of the explaining...the same character who states that Snape was jealous of James's Quidditch skills.

It's just a theory but we've been promised more information of the Prank (at least I seem to remember hearing that), we may well see Number 12 again, and R.A.B. is going to be important (and frankly I can't see Regulus having no back story...he was only a year or two younger then Snape and the Marauders).

[Sly_Lady]

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

One thing we know about Snape: he is around everywhere, and would never be as aloof as Dumbledore. I think that would be an improvement!

It makes me think of when Harry and Ron arrived at Hogwarts in the flying car, and they realize Snape isn't seated at the staff table. They speculate that he's ill, he's left or maybe he's been sacked, then hear that very cold voice behind them "Or maybe he's waiting to hear why you two didn't arrive on the school train."

I thought that was a hilarious moment, and if Snape would be that vigilant as Headmaster, he might well be hated by the students.

[subtle science]

I don't wonder why Sirius sent Snape to the Willow: Lupin says it, and Sirius concurs with his comment of 'he deserved it.' Perfect opportunity to clarify, had Sirius wanted to. Lupin's questionable honesty comes into play when he delivers the "er" before describing the set up as "amusing"--he's covering, to avoid admitting what the set up really was. He does the same thing later, in OotP, when Harry tries to discuss SWM with him and Sirius--the two try to avoid discussing the incident and their culpability.

One would imagine that, if Regulus were in Snape's alleged group of students that became DEs, Sirius might remember to mention that. Unless he's trying to mislead Harry and paint himself in a better light by failing to note, in GoF, his brother's connection to Voldemort--and suddenly gets over that attitude by OotP, but then doesn't want to implicate Snape by bringing up Snape's connection to Regulus in school...for some reason, not wanting to smear Snape in front of Harry, despite taking every other opportunity to do so in OotP.

At any rate, this does seem to be veering considerably off topic, as I said before.

I've always wondered about the description of Phineas Nigellus as the least popular Headmaster...why? It isn't, actually, a good thing at all for a teacher/administrator to be "popular"--that's not what the job is all about....In his conversations with Harry. Phineas tends to reveal a mjor impatience with stupidity and self pity; he's not much for teenaged angst. There are a few echoes of Snape in there--that tendency to say exactly what he's thinking, quite bluntly...And yes--the everpresent patroller would certainly not be popular with students. I've always liked the idea that Dumbledore seems intellectually omnipresent: somehow, he always has knowledge of what's going on, even when he's not physically present. And Snape is, it seems, always physically present. That's an intimidating team for the student body..... : )

[DancingMaenid]

Originally Posted by Sly_Lady

I thought that was a hilarious moment, and if Snape would be that vigilant as Headmaster, he might well be hated by the students.

Heh, it was hilarious. And I bet he would be a vigilant headmaster. For all Dumbledore's strengths, he doesn't really strike me as the type to pay a whole lot of attention to what the students are up to, except in special cases. I've always found it interesting that Snape was out there to meet Harry and Ron and not McGonagall or Dumbledore. It goes along, a bit, with Snape being in the room in GoF when everyone was discussing Harry's name being pulled out of the goblet, even though Snape wasn't really involved.

I'd love it if Snape became headmaster, but the poor guy wouldn't get much rest if he did. Not only would he probably continue to patrol the halls at night, but he'd have to be in charge of the teachers, as well. And I don't really see Snape as the type to delegate his duties.

[Morgan LeFay]

Originally Posted by Sly_Lady

It makes me think of when Harry and Ron arrived at Hogwarts in the flying car, and they realize Snape isn't seated at the staff table. They speculate that he's ill, he's left or maybe he's been sacked, then hear that very cold voice behind them "Or maybe he's waiting to hear why you two didn't arrive on the school train."

I thought that was a hilarious moment, and if Snape would be that vigilant as Headmaster, he might well be hated by the students.

Sometimes I think you're a better headmaster when you're not loved by all, but respected by all. He could gain a lot of respect, he has abilities to do so.

It was a hilarious moment, one of my favourite Snape moments. "Snape looked as though Christmas had been cancelled." Something like this. I laugh everytime.

Sorry, but I'm losing track of thought when it comes to Regulus theory. Are you suggesting Sirius wanted to kill Snape because he was a friend of soon-to-be DE and could have bad influence on Regulus? And you also think DD would understand it and leave this prank without any consequences?

I've never given the woomping willow incident so much thought...
- In book one DD said Snape hates James because James saved his life and now Snape owns him a life debt. Harry couldn't understand such a weird reason for hatred and he was right, because DD trivialized the whole thing.
- In PoA we realised there is more to James-Snape "relationship", because it included three more people. It's deeper and more painful.
Snape also told Harry not to think high about James because he hadn't been noble, he'd just been saving his own neck (and Sirius'). I thought it's normal James hatred from Snape, but now I could believe it's true.
Snape also accused Sirius of being a murderer. "Don't you remember headmaster? Don't you remember he tried to kill me?" Here I also thought he was exaggerating, but now I'm not sure. Werewolfs can be lethal, right?
- After SWM I'm ready to believe in most things Snape tells Harry about James and Sirius. After all, Snape doesn't lie often. Exaggerate, maybe. But lie?

I really think it was just an extremely stupid prank brought up to show what idiot Sirius was in school.

Originally Posted by DancingMaenid

Heh, it was hilarious. And I bet he would be a vigilant headmaster. For all Dumbledore's strengths, he doesn't really strike me as the type to pay a whole lot of attention to what the students are up to, except in special cases. I've always found it interesting that Snape was out there to meet Harry and Ron and not McGonagall or Dumbledore. It goes along, a bit, with Snape being in the room in GoF when everyone was discussing Harry's name being pulled out of the goblet, even though Snape wasn't really involved.

And he comes to the gate in HBP when Tonks brings Harry. He also is there when Umbridge finds Harry in her office. He seems to be around everytime Harry gets himself into trouble. Harry thinks it's because Snape hates him, I think it's because he tries to guard him.

Originally Posted by DancingMaenid

I'd love it if Snape became headmaster, but the poor guy wouldn't get much rest if he did. Not only would he probably continue to patrol the halls at night, but he'd have to be in charge of the teachers, as well. And I don't really see Snape as the type to delegate his duties.

He's a man of action, not the one to give orders I guess. But Hogwarts needs to have a really capable wizard as a hedmaster now, and if not Snape, then Voldemort
You know, when the war is over you need people to re-built things. I think Snape, as a DD right hand man, would manage it. Then he could get himself more suitable job. (Maybe he'd write Advance Potion Making books or he'd go on Lockharts path and create his own DADA books series. "Severus Snape and The Vampire of Transilvania", "Severus Snape and The Curse of Banshee. The sequel." )

[Billywiggy]

Originally Posted by DancingMaenid

I've always found it interesting that Snape was out there to meet Harry and Ron and not McGonagall or Dumbledore. It goes along, a bit, with Snape being in the room in GoF when everyone was discussing Harry's name being pulled out of the goblet, even though Snape wasn't really involved.

Yes, Snape is always there. Is this because it's Harry? Is Snape watching out for Harry and/or hoping to find Harry getting into trouble? He does always seem to be 'johnny-on-the-spot', doesn't he?
Like when Snape comes upon Draco and Harry . . . is this because he's keeping tabs on Draco, or Harry? We know Draco's been crying in that bathroom (Myrtle tells Harry as much, without naming Draco as the one), so it's possible that Snape is aware that Draco goes there a lot. But I get the feeling that, as much as Snape is trying to protect Draco, he is still keeping a close eye on Harry.

Originally Posted by DancingMaenid

I'd love it if Snape became headmaster, but the poor guy wouldn't get much rest if he did. Not only would he probably continue to patrol the halls at night, but he'd have to be in charge of the teachers, as well. And I don't really see Snape as the type to delegate his duties.

But he wouldn't have to teach the 'dunderheads' anymore , and (assuming this is post-VMs downfall) he wouldn't have his spying duties, either. I think he could definitely handle that - it's less than what he's doing now!

ETA:

Originally Posted by Morgan LeFay

He seems to be around everytime Harry gets himself into trouble. Harry thinks it's because Snape hates him, I think it's because he tries to guard him.

You got there ahead of me!

[silver ink pot]

Originally Posted by Morgan LeFay

Snape also accused Sirius of being a murderer. "Don't you remember headmaster? Don't you remember he tried to kill me?" Here I also thought he was exaggerating, but now I'm not sure. Werewolfs can be lethal, right?

I think that's why JKR added the part about a boy being killed by a werewolf, and Harry says something like, "Werewolves don't kill people, do they?" If we couple that idea with the statement from Lupin that Harry is like James, who downplayed the danger of a werewolf by calling it a "furry problem," it is clear that Harry underestimates the dangers of werewolves. It also means that Snape was right - having a werewolf around is dangerous for everyone, but especially children.

What I think is that he's known about Greyback since his days as a DE, and he knew he was literally a "child predator." That is more than enough of a reason to distrust Lupin slightly, even though he is "normal" during the rest of the month. Yet he copes with it by trying to teach the children about werewolves at the first opportunity, questions Dumbledore about the wisdom of having a werewolf around, and continues to make the potion (even though Lupin doesn't remember to take it).

One of my favorite things in HBP is when Snape has to push past Greyback, who is covered with blood from biting Bill Weasley. That showed real courage, even if the outcome was to kill Dumbledore.

I just feel as if Snape is in a den of vipers and demons, and Harry doesn't see what guts it takes to keep going back.

[Strider62442]

I really dont see how Snape can live to the end of the series. Even if DD's death was part of a plan, it seems like people wouldnt take to having their kids teacher be a killer, and a killer of one of the most beloved figures in their world. Headmaster Snape? I dont think its possible. The governors would never go for it. Its just too weird. Snape is more of a born right hand man anyway. He was always DD's loyal hand, Voldemort thinks Snape's his apprentice, he could only continue in that role for the new headmaster/mistress if he lives.

But i think he will die.

[alxlan11]

I think Snape has to die because his character is a tragic hero. I think that he will have to sacrifice himself in order to help Harry destroy LV solidifying his tragic character. He will have redeemed himself and proven himself to be good but will die before ever reaping the benefits. Some characters are just not meant to be normal and live normally, Snape can never return to society after killing the most beloved wizard of all time. All his life since he joined the good side he has sacrificed any type of normality or accptance, having to rejoin the DE and being suspected by both sides because of it.

[Serpentine]

Oops, yet another Dev of Sev! Sorry for being so late to peek in, and with replies to "old stuff" from version 2 to boot... I'll try to keep track of this one now via subscription *pant*, while reading up on the shamanism thread too (oh well, trying too at least - heard about some juicy Snape stuff there, but haven't found it yet). Folks on this forum are just way too brilliant and fast in too many different places to keep track.

Originally Posted by Norbertha

That's true, but I just meant that James could have said something along the lines of "look who's talking, the Half-Blood Prince!" But yes, if James refrained from saying that, even though it could have ridiculed Snape quite a lot, it shows that James is indeed very opposed to racial slurs - so much that he doesn't even want to use one against his enemy, to protect his crush - and that's a very good thing, I think.

True, but for that he'd have had to a) realize the "title" to be actually a racial slur on his nemesis and b) decide to refrain from that particular kind of bullying. In my opinion that would have demanded of him rather more maturity than he seems to have had at the age of 15/16, bullying Snape 4 on 1 and nicking his spells. Harry too is opposed to racial slurs (and so is Ron), when it comes to e.g. Hermione being insulted by Draco - but Hermione is someone he likes, and Draco is someone he doesn't like. (I wonder how he'd react to Fred&George taunting Millicent Bulstrode in a similar way?) Throughout the book HBP Harry doesn't ever get the idea that Snape's "Half-Blood Prince" title could have been a slur, or have any negative connotations at all - neither before nor after he knows the Prince's identity. As soon as he does know that it's Snape, Harry immediately equals that title to Tom Riddle's grand self-styled title "Lord Voldemort" rather than the "mudblood" insult on Hermione and Lily, in spite of what he knows of the Slytherin purebloods' attitude. Personally I find this to be a quite telling oversight.

Originally Posted by mdeligan

If Snape knew about the blood ingredient, would he be able to reach the same conclusion as Dumbledore - the gleam in his eye moment? I still don't get the significance: blood (involuntarily given by captured enemy) bone (unknowingly given by murdered father) and flesh (willingly given by servant). Could Snape figure this out? Or did DD talk to him about it? My impression was this was a potion invented by Voldemort.

As far as I recall, it wasn't really an invention of Voldemort himself, but "ancient magic" (wonder in whose dusty tomes Wormtail even managed to find that one?). Even if Snape wasn't aware of this particular potion earlier, I guess if anyone could figure this potion out, it'd be the logical Potions Master.

The blood for Voldemort's potion reminds me uncomfortably of Umbridge's quill and the parchment Harry wrote on. Where are they anyway? I hope Snape safeguarded them somewhere, in the wrong hands the stuff is potentially dangerous...

Originally Posted by mdeligan

(about DE!Flitwick or Imperius!Flitwick)
Sometimes I think you could persuade me that up is down and down is up. But then I am a Libra so I'm not sure how hard it is to persuade me. Snape needs to find a Libra in the Order if he ever decides to reach out for help.

Am I getting you right, he needs a Libra as contact in the Order because they can best be persuaded? Hmm... if so I wonder, into which direction? What might work out one way, might equally work out the other way too.

According to Jo's birthday greetings, both Flitwick and McGonagall seem to be Libras, no other Libras in HP announced yet. And in view of the end of HBP, both have in some way or other come under suspicion here. Just his luck...

(No offense meant to anyone, and happy birthday to all the Libras on this thread! Snape has so many brilliant advocates here, Justitia with her scales must have a soft spot for this particular Roman. )

By the way, another subscription tells me that the pre-HBP Tarot thread has sprung back to life now, with posts on something that was discussed on Dev of Sev earlier: the Levicorpus (aka James's nonverbal SWM spell ) and the Hanged Man aka Snape. SIP, mdeligan or anyone else interested? Unless you prefer a new post-HBP thread about Tarot, of course.