Smallville

[boushh]

Originally Posted by LaDonna

I thought that when Davis told Chloe that it was so easy with her and that he had never felt that way before, and then asked her if she ever felt that way before and she said "once" and then he asked if it was Jimmy and she said "no", that she must have somehow been talking about Clark. But after watching it again I'm considering the possibility that she meant with Davis, and that's why she said she couldn't see him for awhile.

Ooo, I hadn't thought of it that way... about her possibly meaning Davis. That's actually the most interesting option, and it does make more sense... Nice observation/interpretation.

[crookshanks1177]

Originally Posted by LaDonna

I do disagree with you strongly about Jimmy having more of a nose for an article than Lois. Lois wasn't even here, and yet it seems like you are blaming her because Jimmy is out trying to catch a photo of the "good samaritan". You would maybe have a point if Lois was in this episode and was trying to discourage Jimmy from even bothering with it, or if Lois was given a chance to try and go after the story but she turned it down because she wasn't interested. But that is not what happened. And there have been times in the comics when Jimmy has alerted Lois and Clark to something that he thinks would be a good story. It will be her and Jimmy who are going after it. Lois will want the interview and Jimmy wants the photo, and that's how it is in the comics. If next week rolls around and shows Lois to be uninterested in this story even after Jimmy gets a picture, or if Jimmy is the one doing the investigating and Lois is just saying to make it up, or if Jimmy wants a picture of it and Lois says they don't need the proof, then I'll admit that they are not writing her to be competent. But so far this season, she has been more than just an average reporter. She's gotten headlines, and is consistently being printed. They have even showed her being the one insisting on verifying facts or getting pictures for proof. I think it's extremely false to say that she doesn't have raw-writing skills (because if her articles were poorly written, I don't think the paper would continue to print them, the supposed best newspaper at that, when the papers goal is to make money), and I also think it's false to say she doesn't have instincts. Wasn't it her idea in "Committed" to pose as a couple in order to figure out where Jimmy and Chloe were being kept? That ended up being how the crazy guy was found. If anything, I think this season is making a point to show the audience that Lois is a good reporter, and they are giving us not just exposition to show this, but actual plots.

I agree with you for the most part as far as Lois is concerned. However I don't think she's going to jump too much for the Good Samaritan story. She still probably doesn't trust Jimmy professionally after the end of last season. She accepts him as marrying her cousin, but their relationship is still not right. I think the writers will keep her busy elsewhere rather than have her join in on this story. I think this will be Jimmy's time.

[jordmundt6]

Okay--I guess I never envisioned the Pulitzer-Prize winning Mad Dog Lane blowing off her calling to watch a monster truck rally hundreds of miles away from Metropolis. Plus, The Good Samaritan thing should be her brand of story--she's the one who made The Green Arrow (Bandit) her personal crusade two years ago.

LaDonna--about the edit--that's a valid interpretation, but I lean more towards Clark because the context of the last comment is

Davis--"It's so easy to be friends/in a relationship with you."
Chloe--"I feel the same way about you."
Davis--"This is the first time that's ever happened to me. Has it ever happened to you [before]?"
Chloe--"Once."
Davis--"With Jimmy."
Chloe--"No."

[LaDonna]

I'm going to say more about this episode later, but I wanted to hop on for a second to say "wow wow wow". I loved it. The only thing I didn't like too much was Clark trying to get Chloe to delete the photo, and then breaking into Jimmy, Lois, and Chloe's apartment to try and get the film/evidence. Otherwise, every character moved forward in the story, and it was great. And the ending with Chloe, wowser!!!! I can't wait to discuss that with you guys!!! All in do time, though. I have bills to pay, 30 rock to watch, and need to revel in the Smallville after episode glow. More to come....

[boushh]

I loved this episode too, also. I kind of thought Chloe was going to go down this type of path, but I wasn't expecting it here, so that was awesome. It was a pretty tightly written episode. A lot of characters got decent screen time and like LaDonna said, the story kept moving forward. Next week's looks odd, but interesting. I only saw half the preview though. My DVR cut out early.

[ComicBookWorm]

Well the story is progressing, and the characters are developing. I was afraid this was the path Chloe would end up on.

[jordmundt6]

Actually, based on tidbits the producers are dribbling out, we're going to be spending multiple episodes with Clark and HELP fighting to help Chloe conquer Brainiac. I hope they win--but for right now...YEAH! I should be horrified by what she did, but I was grinning and whooping the whole time--it was absolutely the right play.

I liked Jimmy's quick brainwave, but it threatened to shoot an entire mythos to pieces--and if he were really as smart as they're painting him--he'd have said

"Did you REALLY expect me to fall for that? That guy, whoever he was is nothing lke you! A cape and a flashy wire-trick isn't going to fool me--but thanks to whoever that was." But, he didn't.

I would say the writers found their swing--but frankly, the writers never had a swing this good before--or any clubs like this in their bag.

[Ginny1976]

Finally an episode we can be proud of!!!
So Chloe has turned to the dark side, but she looked like she was confused after doing it or at least wondering about it. She didn't look happy that she wiped the guys mind. And it was the right play. That guy could never have been left knowing Clarks secret. But when he first came on, I thought that he would end up being a good guy and wipe out Jimmy's memory of figuring out Clark. The way it was was much more entertaining. Ollie in a cape and speedo was priceless.
Good to see Oliver back on track. He needs more screen time.
And Lois' fortune about falling for a guy that flies and wears tights was great.
But with all this talk about alter egos and costumes, I'm wondering if they will end up letting us see Clark in uniform....

[jordmundt6]

Okay--fans of Severus Snape--defenders to the hilt of the Half-Blood Prince--explain to me how Chloe using dark methods in the service of the light is evidence of her "turning to the dark side" but Snape's actions are laudable, even heroic? Anyone wanna take a stab at that?

Chloe is flawed--a heroine with a dark side (that's not all her own--by which I mean that Brainiac's effects are making it easier for her to make tough/dark choices--not that he's dictating to her at this point--though he'll try in the future) but she still seems to be driving and she's not being evil for her own sake, or for the purpose of enjoyment--she's doing dark things in a very controlled way for a very specific purpose. It looks like she made a jump from a Hermione stance to a Snape stance--and she probably won't stop there as Brainiac tries to assert control, but for now--for NOW, can we at least agree that she's a heroine with a dark side and LEAVE IT there?

[Ginny1976]

Ooh, touchy, Jord! Don't take it personally! I was just surprised at first that it went that route so soon. But it all makes sense, and as she is infected, seemed like it wasn't all her own doings. Heck Braniac even protected Clark at one point. I'm sure things will turn out okay for our beloved Chloe. Everyone has their bad days, she just melted a guys brain. However, I'm not sure how Clark would feel about it if he found out....hmm...

[LaDonna]

Originally Posted by jordmundt6

Okay--fans of Severus Snape--defenders to the hilt of the Half-Blood Prince--explain to me how Chloe using dark methods in the service of the light is evidence of her "turning to the dark side" but Snape's actions are laudable, even heroic? Anyone wanna take a stab at that?

Chloe is flawed--a heroine with a dark side (that's not all her own) but she still seems to be driving and she's not being evil for her own sake, or for the purpose of enjoyment--she's doing dark things in a very controlled way for a very specific purpose. It looks like she made a jump from a Hermione stance to a Snape stance--and she probably won't stop there as Brainiac tries to assert control, but for now--for NOW, can we at least agree that she's a heroine with a dark side and LEAVE IT there?

You know what? Remember when Chloe told Lana that Clark would never want someone to kill to keep his secret safe and then we were led to believe Chloe was the higher road and Lana resorted to the lower road? I guess Chloe is just like Lana now.............................

Oh, man. I'm kidding. I just had to throw that out there because of how I know you feel about Chloe. I thought it'd be funny. And don't worry, that wasn't opinion shrouded in sarcasm, because I could never think Chloe and Lana are the same. I don't hate Lana per se, but I do love Chloe so much more than Lana.

Back to business, I read through people's comments and I don't see anyone harping about Chloe being a dark character now. I think what was meant was just Brainiac (in whatever capacity) has either facilitated her dark choices, influenced her dark choices, or is bringing out a dark side that really everyone has. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that Chloe is a bad guy now. If any of you did mean that, than never mind. The impression I got was that Chloe is no longer making choices that the Chloe from past seasons would make. I think we can all be sure that before this episode aired, no one here would have said "I think Chloe is going to kill someone". Whether it's brainiac taking over her actions, or it's Chloe just making darker choices because of Brainiac's infection, we'll have to wait and see, but as of right now, we know something is different about Chloe. I'm sure no one would classify her as the bad guy of the show.

Now, I loved this episode. I've watched every episode of Smallville, and some of what happened in last nights episode have been scenes I've been waiting for since the beginning. When Oliver was on the roof and people were staring up at him, and then Clark looks around and realizes how people react to such a thing (happy and hopeful), and on his face it seems to finally dawn on him that becoming a superhero of some sort and going public is more than just keeping your identity safe and saving people, I was so happy. It gives the public hope and they will accept the hero. Seriously, I've been waiting 8 seasons for that. And it delivered! TW is doing so amazing this year with his acting (which is good because most of the time the only way you can guess what Clark is thinking is by interpreting his facial expressions). Lois is acting like ILL, Jimmy is acting like IJO, Clark is acting like ICK with a bit of ISuperman thrown in for good measure. And Chloe, my darling Chloe, is cementing her place in the mythos (at the very least for me, but hopefully in the future as well). I say this not just because of the important role she's had over the course of the show, but because she is becoming a part of the Superman saga for me. And I hope that DC will follow suit and include her in some way. I'm rooting for the JL, but a reporter at the planet is fine, a reporter at another paper is fine, etc.

Okay, now Jimmy. Since we all know he wasn't going to know the secret, I actually liked how they played him. He figured it out and it did make sense. It happened in Smallville up until Clark left, Clark does always were blue and red, Chloe and Clark's relationship would make sense (well, more sense that is), and Clark has the type of character to be a hero. I don't mind that Jimmy later came to conclude that he was wrong because of Ollie. If you are familiar at all with the superman story, you know that weird things happen and most of the characters don't catch on, or they buy the stories they are told. It was classic superman. I kind of wish they hadn't shown Clark rushing off during the time Ollie did his thing, but I guess that made sense story wise because if Clark was there, he'd probably save Jimmy and Ollie would have been unnecessary. I just wish maybe Clark could have showed up as Ollie was saving Jimmy, so that Jimmy could have seen Clark standing there as it happened or at the very end, because that would have been more persuasive, in my view. Actually, come to think of it, Bart should have come and either sped Ollie to the different destinations (if he's been working out ), or just done the whole superhero thing. It would have made more sense since Jimmy knows the mysterious superhero can superspeed, but at least it gave us the "Ollie returns to superhero" story line, so I'll look past it. And Jimmy's little speech to Clark in the DP afterwards was fantastic. Jimmy was right, and that spoke to the friendship Jimmy and Clark will have in the future. I loved it. And I'm glad someone was able to say that Clark Kent is an honorable person, and he is like a hero in his own right, and Jimmy is saying that about Clark Kent, and not about his powers. It was perfect writing.

I don't know if I've mentioned this, but I love season eight. I want to marry it, or at least wrap myself up in it and pretend this is how Smallville always was. I'm not discounting every other season, or the necessity of the storylines from seasons 1-4 or so, but season 8 is the season I've been waiting for. It's the culmination of the idea of the series. I wish season 6 and 7 could be forgotten for the most part, but oh well. Back to the steamy goodness of this season....

I liked that Chloe was the one to give the speech about "it wouldn't be so bad if you had a double identity and I think it would be good for the public". Ollie's already given Clark some hero speeches, and of all the characters, I think Chloe is in the best position to do so. We'd all like Clark to come to these realizations on his own, but since he doesn't, Chloe was the right one to do so, and at least now it's in his head.

One thing I didn't like about this episode was Clark breaking and entering. That's illegal, even if it is his friends apartment. And his intent wasn't to save someone, it was to confiscate something that he already knew wouldn't be a threat to him. He saw the photo, and he knew that it was impossible to link that to Clark Kent (except Jimmy, wink wink). But there he goes anyways, breaking in and looking to steal. I forgave him of course, but I think they should have left that part out. They could have had Clark show up there to try and talk to Jimmy, but Jimmy wasn't home and so they still could have had the Lois scene. They didn't need Clark to break in. However, these writers are earning so much praise from me that I looked past it (eventually).

I don't know if I've said this lately, but I love SVLois. Seriously, she's one of the top Lois Lane's for me. I still hold a soft spot for THLois, but ED's portrayal is quickly gaining on it. The writers have made some choices with the character that I haven't liked (college and grant are probably the two biggest ones). However, taken as a whole, I love her. And season 8 is a slam dunk for Lois Lane in my opinion. The scene with her telling Clark that she is going to get the first interview with the superhero was PERFECT. It was great foreshadowing and great development.

Now, the ending. AWESOME!!! A surprise....and a freaking great one at that. I saw the hand and thought "here comes Tess to take him out". But then, ooooohhhhhhh, it was Chloe!!! Dun Dun Dun!!!! LOVED IT! AM rocked that scene. I love AM, I love Chloe, and I love this story arc!!!! She owned that guy. She's a bad mamajamma! And no, I don't mean an evil person, I mean she's super cool! My theory (which is also based on interviews with TPTB and AM herself) is that Chloe remained Chloe one hundred percent after being attacked by Brainiac. The only difference is her healing power is gone because she used it all to heal herself/defend herself when she was attacked (that's not theory, it's fact, the producers have said). So, back to my theory. I think a piece or form of Brainiac attached itself to Chloe for survival. Up until now, I think the only difference is she has been able to use his "function" which is what gives her the ability to converse with computers. But since it's krypton technology, that is what gives her a connection that she can't really understand to Davis. Now, I think the point of Brainiac attaching itself to Chloe was survival, and that his intent is to be released at some point. While I don't think Brainiac has been slowly taking over Chloe's personality and affecting her choices, I do think that having the power she does now is making her open herself up the darker tendencies we all have. Who know, perhaps the more she uses the krypto computer intelligence the more she opens herself up to him. Chloe (real Chloe) would never kill someone (well, except her encouraging Clark to kill Lex, but let's look past that for now). But now things are different. She has the power to effect people and technology in a way she's never had before, and I think her choice to "brain fry" the guy was Chloe's choice. Whether she intended to kill him or not, I'm unsure. When she walked away from the room, she did seem to register some doubt. It could be that Brainiac took over and took control and killed the guy, but I don't think so. I guess we'll find out for sure after episode 11

Spoiler: show

when three of the legion of superheroes come back in time to separate Chloe from Brainiac. In episode 9 brainiac begins erasing Chloe's memory and downloading more krypto code, and so Clark has to go to jor-el for help in restoring her memory. We also know that in episode 10 it's the wedding episode, and that at some point Brainiac takes over Chloe. The whole thing should be resolved at the end of episode 11, and so we'll know for sure one way or another about the plot.

. But I'm going on record as someone who does not think that Chloe is operating as Brainiac right now even. I think he's in there and looking for a means to escape, and I think there may be some influence which is affecting her, but I still think it's Chloe who is making the choices. I think once Brainiac is gone, then Chloe's "dark tendencies" will also vanish, as she realizes what she's done and goes back to her super self. But, however this turns out, I'm very excited about it. Great story line, great execution so far!

I can't believe the continuity these writers are hitting. It's never been like this on smallville, and it's really great for the series. A picture of Martha, Jonathan, and Clark, nice!

Maybe I should just stop, as I've taken up so much time just for anyone to read through this. I'll probably think of more later, but I'll try to wait so it doesn't brain fry anyone. I don't want to pull a Chloe (ha ha that joke was for you, jordmundt6).

[boushh]

Originally Posted by jordmundt6

Okay--fans of Severus Snape--defenders to the hilt of the Half-Blood Prince--explain to me how Chloe using dark methods in the service of the light is evidence of her "turning to the dark side" but Snape's actions are laudable, even heroic? Anyone wanna take a stab at that?

Chloe is flawed--a heroine with a dark side (that's not all her own--by which I mean that Brainiac's effects are making it easier for her to make tough/dark choices--not that he's dictating to her at this point--though he'll try in the future) but she still seems to be driving and she's not being evil for her own sake, or for the purpose of enjoyment--she's doing dark things in a very controlled way for a very specific purpose. It looks like she made a jump from a Hermione stance to a Snape stance--and she probably won't stop there as Brainiac tries to assert control, but for now--for NOW, can we at least agree that she's a heroine with a dark side and LEAVE IT there?

Wow. Well I agree with you about Chloe, so I don't really see what the deal is with bringing Snape and Snape fans into the discussion and in such a fashion. I also will not discuss Snape here as he is not the topic. I was here to discuss Smallville, not to get challenged in this manner. So I'm not really sure I'll be visiting the thread anymore... I have other places to go where I can discuss this show... Have fun.

[LaDonna]

Originally Posted by boushh

Wow. Well I agree with you about Chloe, so I don't really see what the deal is with bringing Snape and Snape fans into the discussion and in such a fashion. I also will not discuss Snape here as he is not the topic. I was here to discuss Smallville, not to get challenged in this manner. So I'm not really sure I'll be visiting the thread anymore... I have other places to go where I can discuss this show... Have fun.

No, don't leave!!! There are only like five of us who post here anyways, and we need everyone! Plus, I enjoy reading your posts! Stay with us!!!

And I don't think jordmund was addressing that to you, I think he was making a statement in general. Or at least I think he was. Chloe is his girl, so he wanted to defend her. That's all.

But don't leave, PLEASE!!! We're all Smallville fans, so let's band together and diss the characters back and forth like true forum citizens!!

[boushh]

OK, I feel bad so I'll try to stick around. I know what its like to want to discuss something and not have a lot of people to talk about it with...

So here I am talking Smallville.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote above. I love this season so far. I'm a relatively new fan to the show. I've only watched it for three seasons or so and just sporadic episodes before that. So far though, this is the best they've done with the show as long as I've been watching it. I don't know if it is the characters they are using that are more interesting or what? I do like that they are trying to work more hints of the mythology in there and the Clark and Lois stuff has been top notch so far, IMHO. I like their chemistry.

The only real nitpick I have for this episode is actually something that was bugging me but I couldn't quite figure it out until a friend of mine brought it up. Clark was being way too obvious about not covering the story or believing in the hero. It made him look like he was covering something up and yet Jimmy didn't pick up on that. I think Welling should have downplayed it or Jimmy should have at least realized Clark was holding something back and trying to redirect him. Clark was being way too obvious, IMHO.

As for Chloe, as I mentioned earlier I was expecting something like this from the moment she had this new power. I knew it had to be something to do with Brainiac and whatever that is it cannot be good. I thought at first that maybe she was posessed by him, but I don't think that now. Brainiac may be in there to a certain degree, but I don't think he's taken over. I don't know whether or not her ability is making her be a bit more aggressive in her choices, or if it was just something that needed to be done so she did it. Still, for Chloe it was pretty intense. Now, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I like it when characters are stretched to their limits, when they have flaws, and when the actors are given meaty material. So I think this should be interesting to watch unfold, however they play it.

[LaDonna]

The only real nitpick I have for this episode is actually something that was bugging me but I couldn't quite figure it out until a friend of mine brought it up. Clark was being way too obvious about not covering the story or believing in the hero. It made him look like he was covering something up and yet Jimmy didn't pick up on that. I think Welling should have downplayed it or Jimmy should have at least realized Clark was holding something back and trying to redirect him. Clark was being way too obvious, IMHO.

Good catch! It was weird on first viewing, and I just kept thinking that someone was going to go "what is it about this that is making you act so out-of-sorts". Everyone else was either liking the story or just thought it wasn't credible, but Clark was visibly upset by it. I guess they wanted us to get the point that Clark wasn't into that picture being posted, but they made it too unbelievable that no one would notice this. He didn't come off as a skeptic, but instead as someone who was trying to squash the story for personal reasons. After you wrote that, it made me realize how obvious it actually was. Especially going to Tess and trying the Lex angle to change her mind about printing it. That was just crazy! If anything, that was perhaps the most obvious thing he did.

[jordmundt6]

Welcome to the party boushh--I'm glad that you've found the show and that it's pretty much at its best right now so that you see what it can be. I hope the quality keeps improving (but the preview for next week doesn't give me much hope).

I'm sorry that you saw that as a bash on Severus Snape--I was extremely frustrated with the speed at which Chloe is being written off as corrupted/evil/"on the dark side" because she's making very calculated dark decisions in the service of the light--so I thought I'd start with common ground. I'd challenge those who'd written her off to take a look at one of the great heroes of the Potter series--the HBP--and then look at Chloe--and THEN get back to me. I was once--and for a long time--one of Snape's severest critics, but I began to see the light with the publication of HBP and I applauded and mourned him in DH. I wanted to be provocative because I wanted Chloe to get a thorough look and I thought Snape provided the easiest example that most on the boards would recognize as someone dark and flawed who was also courageous and self-sacrificing.

Again welcome to the discussion.

The Clark thing--well, you have to understand that this is how Clark has been written at least since Season 5 (and probably before) and this is where Welling is comfortable taking the character's reactions. It shows that there is still room for improvement--room for Clark to grow and mature. Sadly, I think this is the ceiling for this series. However, I'd be THRILLED to be wrong.

[boushh]

Originally Posted by jordmundt6

I'm sorry that you saw that as a bash on Severus Snape--I was extremely frustrated with the speed at which Chloe is being written off as corrupted/evil/"on the dark side" because she's making very calculated dark decisions in the service of the light--so I thought I'd start with common ground. I'd challenge those who'd written her off to take a look at one of the great heroes of the Potter series--the HBP--and then look at Chloe--and THEN get back to me.

I saw it not as a bash, but as a throwdown challenge that wasn't quite necessary because no one had really written off Chloe or had truly passed judgment on her character. I think we were all just making observations. It's too early to tell, at least for me, where she will really end up at the end of this story thread. It's also too early to tell where her motivations are truly coming from. I think they are definitely due in part to her wanting to protect Clark, but I wonder if whatever portion of Brainiac (if it is indeed him) that gave her the abilities is also influencing her.

Again welcome to the discussion.

Thanks... I think.

The Clark thing--well, you have to understand that this is how Clark has been written at least since Season 5 (and probably before) and this is where Welling is comfortable taking the character's reactions. It shows that there is still room for improvement--room for Clark to grow and mature. Sadly, I think this is the ceiling for this series. However, I'd be THRILLED to be wrong.

Well my problem isn't how Clark was behaving. It would have been fine if people noticed how obvious he was being. Kind of like, "What's up with you?" Instead no one really found his behavior very suspicious and they should have, given how obvious he was being.

LaDonna phrased it better here:

I guess they wanted us to get the point that Clark wasn't into that picture being posted, but they made it too unbelievable that no one would notice this. He didn't come off as a skeptic, but instead as someone who was trying to squash the story for personal reasons.

So if they had toned down Clark it would have been OK, but having him act so obvious and no one react to it made everyone else look rather unobservant.

[ComicBookWorm]

Originally Posted by boushh

Well my problem isn't how Clark was behaving. It would have been fine if people noticed how obvious he was being. Kind of like, "What's up with you?" Instead no one really found his behavior very suspicious and they should have, given how obvious he was being.

Smallville has never been particularly well written. There have numerous cases of plot holes or inconsistent writing that have been quite annoying.

[boushh]

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm

Smallville has never been particularly well written. There have numerous cases of plot holes or inconsistent writing that have been quite annoying.

I agree with you, but I tend to be forgiving when it comes to this show and sort of take it for what it is. I may be new to the show compared to those who have watched it from the beginning, but I have also been watching for three years. It's enough to get an idea of what the writing is like on the show on average.

However, some of the friends who got me into watching the show have actually stopped watching because of the writing. Me, I'm fine with it because as long as it is entertaining, I'm happy. So my complaint above is really just a nitpick in an otherwise fairly solid episode for this series, IMHO.

[ComicBookWorm]

Actually the last episode was quite good compared with some.