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Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 14th, 2005, 5:50 pm
Ephix  Male.gif Ephix is offline
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Ollivander and Fortescue - Their use for Voldemort

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Well, first of all:
My English is definitely not the best, so ..
But anyway, let's start:

I wondered, what the disappearance of Ollivander and Fortescue could mean, and how they could help Harry.

1. Ollivander
1.1. Connection Tom => Harry

Ollivander knows about the connection between Voldemort and Harry and I think this connection is going to be important.
Ollivander remembers each and every singe wand he has ever sold, especially Harry's and Tom's.

It just became clear to me, that this matter has a huge significance for the whole series.
This could explain a lot of things, for example the lightning-shaped scar of Harry and why Voldemort picked Harry as his equal and not Neville.
(Yeah, I don't think Harry being a half-blood is the only reason for Voldemort taking him in spite of Neville, there must be something apart from that ..)

This connection is - I think - a major issue and brings up a few important questions:

Why has Tom Riddle a wand with a phoenixfeather in it? The phoenix is a symbol for the good side, personally I think it's the real symbol of Gryffindor, so why did the heir of Slytherin get a wand with a phoenixfeather?

1.2. What happened to Ollivander?

Did Ollivander leave voluntarily? I think so.
There is one important reason:
He didn't want to be Voldemort's tool. Voldemort could use this connection as a target to attack Harry.
Anyway, Ollivander seems like a martyr, because he gives up his shop - and that means his life - to save Harry.

2. Fortescue - Help for Harry

Harry says in Book 3, that Fortescue helped him with his History of Magic homeworks.
So, that means, Fortescue could know a lot about History, for example about the founders of Hogwarts.
Fortescue could have helped Harry finding the Horcruxes, and that's why he got kidnapped.

So, that is my theory, again, I'm sorry for my bad English ..
Bye
Ephix


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Last edited by gertiekeddle; July 23rd, 2007 at 8:20 pm.
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  #2  
Old October 14th, 2005, 6:39 pm
amc  Female.gif amc is offline
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Interesting thread topic.
Quote:
Did Ollivander leave voluntarily? I think so.
There is one important reason:
He didn't want to be Voldemort's tool. Voldemort could use this connection as a target to attack Harry.
Anyway, Ollivander seems like a martyr, because he gives up his shop - and that means his life - to save Harry.
I don't have my book nearby, but if I remember correctly, the evidence pointed to Olivander going voluntarily, as there was no sign of a struggle (if I've got that wrong, feel free to correct me). We have not actually seen proof that the dark side has him, but with his sudden disappearance, that seemed the most likely explanation. If Olivander went over the the dark side, Voldemort could get a new wand from him, which he will be able to use against Harry without a problem.

If he joined the Death Eaters voluntarily, or if they kidnapped him and he went without a fight, I doubt that he is doing it to help Harry.
Quote:
Harry says in Book 3, that Fortescue helped him with his History of Magic homeworks.
So, that means, Fortescue could know a lot about History, for example about the founders of Hogwarts.
Fortescue could have helped Harry finding the Horcruxes, and that's why he got kidnapped.
Good point--he would know a lot about the founders of Hogwarts. I hadn't though of that. Do we know for sure that Fortescue got kidnapped, or did he just disappear (sorry, the only copies that I can get ahold of to check right now are in Spanish, and I don't speak Spanish)
Quote:
I'm sorry for my bad English ..
I though your English was fine


  #3  
Old October 14th, 2005, 7:50 pm
Alina  Female.gif Alina is offline
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Isn’t it odd how Harry talked with DD about a LOT of stuff but they didn’t even reach this subject? It’s like Jo’s hiding it from us.


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  #4  
Old October 14th, 2005, 7:56 pm
ravclawprefec  Female.gif ravclawprefec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephix
Ollivander knows about the connection between Voldemort and Harry and I think this connection is going to be important.
Ollivander remembers each and every singe wand he has ever sold, especially Harry's and Tom's.Ephix
I agree. I've always felt there is more to this than we know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephix
I don't think Harry being a half-blood is the only reason for Voldemort taking him in spite of Neville, there must be something apart from that .Ephix
I think there's more to that story, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephix
Did Ollivander leave voluntarily? I think so.There is one important reason:
He didn't want to be Voldemort's tool. Voldemort could use this connection as a target to attack Harry.
Anyway, Ollivander seems like a martyr, because he gives up his shop - and that means his life - to save Harry.Ephix
Hmm...that's a very good idea. I hadn't thought about him running so the dark side wouldn't be able to use him. I think you might be on to something, especially if there really is more to the story about the wands than we know.
I also like your theory about Fortescue. I had forgotten about him being good at history (I only remembered the ice cream). You're quite right. He might have very valuable information.


  #5  
Old October 14th, 2005, 8:01 pm
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Weasleytwin  Female.gif Weasleytwin is offline
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First off, Ephix, your English is certainly better than my German! Good idea for a thread...

I assumed that Ollivander had been put under the Imperius Curse. The only reason I can think of for Voldemort to want access to him is to study/figure out how to overcome the Reverse spell effect when Harry and Voldemort duel each other.

I'm not sure about Florean Fortescue. I remember from PoA that Fortescue knew a lot about medieval witch burnings. I remember someone having a theory about him in a thread a couple years ago that might be relevant. I don't remember what the theory was, but I'll see if I can find the thread.


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  #6  
Old October 14th, 2005, 8:29 pm
amc  Female.gif amc is offline
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Ohhhh....Ehpix, I misread something that you wrote...I totally missed your point about Olivander having possibly fled and gone into hiding so that Voldemort couldn't get to him (I just thought that you were crazy and you were saying that maybe he joined the dark side voluntarily so that he wouldn't be Voldemort's tool and he could help Harry), but I get what you're saying now, and yeah, that's an interesting theory....you could be on to something....


  #7  
Old October 14th, 2005, 8:50 pm
Anyanka  Female.gif Anyanka is offline
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I don't know about Ollivander running away from the dark side, he's always creeped me out, thought that might be influenced by John Hurt's performance in the movie. I assumed he either went to Voldemort willingly or was abducted - to make him a new wand so he can fight Harry without the wands refusing again.

Your English is fine... better than some English-speaking board members!


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Last edited by Anyanka; October 14th, 2005 at 8:57 pm.
  #8  
Old October 14th, 2005, 9:03 pm
Athene  Female.gif Athene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasleytwin
I assumed that Ollivander had been put under the Imperius Curse. The only reason I can think of for Voldemort to want access to him is to study/figure out how to overcome the Reverse spell effect when Harry and Voldemort duel each other.
I think there are more reasons possible: Ollivander is the best wand maker and if the Death Eaters have him (even taken by force), they have access to the best wands, whereas the Ministry and the Order cannot get them any more. I doubt that there´s a way out of the reverse spell effect, when the wands are "brothers". The only way I see that could help Voldemort would simply be to use another wand. But is is so full of himself that he does not think Harry an equal rival, so I doubt he still cares about that Priori Incantatem in GoF.

But I, too, think that Ollivander has left voluntarily and went into hiding in order to avoid that Death Eaters can buy more of his wands. He is very fond of them, and the way he talked to Harry when he bought his wand, suggests that he would rather not have sold the wand to Voldemort in the first place if he had known what this wand was being used for.


  #9  
Old October 14th, 2005, 9:29 pm
hprulez  Female.gif hprulez is offline
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yep i agree i wish ollianvender (sorry am terrible at spelling ) hadnt left though because i think he could have been great wisdom to harry. though i suppose he could come back in 7


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  #10  
Old October 14th, 2005, 9:36 pm
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Your English is excellent, ephix!

I assume that Ollivander was kidnapped by LV so that the Bad Guys could make use of his wand-making expertise.

Fortescue - dunno; however his disappearance is one of the factors which made the trip to Diagon Alley so gloomy for the kids in HBP. I doubt there's more to it than that.


  #11  
Old October 14th, 2005, 9:54 pm
destany  Female.gif destany is offline
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I sort of got the impression that you were implying Ollivander could know something about Harry and Voldemort since their wands share cores? That the fact that their wands share cores could relate to why Voldemort picked Harry instead of Neville and Ollivander could enlighten Voldemort further on the profecy? Is that along the lines of what you're thinking?

Ollivander didn't (to me) seem to have any prior inkling on Harry when he came into the shop. Other than the recognition of who he was, the famous Harry Potter and all of that.
Harry tried many wands that day until he found the one that fit him. Ollivander had gave us no inclination that he suspected it from the start. Why else would he have had Harry try all of those others before getting to the one?
Ollivander said, "The wand chooses the wizard Harry. It's not always clear why."
This makes me think that Ollivander had no idea that Harry would get that wand, and when Harry did get it, Ollivander couldn't guess what it could possibly mean.

I think the reason they have brother wands is because of the powers Voldemort transfered to Harry. If the wand were to read something about the wizard, and then decide (like the sorting hat) if it wanted to go to him, I could see why the two similar wands would choose wizards with similar abilities (and the fact that they were both orphans wanting to prove themselves and the many other similarities between Voldemort and Harry), etc. etc. etc.

Now, as to why Voldemort might have taken him, if indeed he had, could be to make more powerful wands for his Death Eaters. I can't remember who said it in the book, that it could be a really bad thing for the good side. Or, as the others said, Ollivander may have left on his own accord.

As for Fortesque... just because he helped Harry with his History of Magic homework doesn't mean he's an expert on History of Magic. Could be, he just knew more than Harry? Even if he did know a lot about it, how would Voldemort know that? Or the more direct point, we have so little knowledge on him at this point, we can't assume that Voldemort would have known, if in fact, there was anything to know. Ya know?

Ah, I'm such a pessimist!
Maybe Voldemort just really likes ice cream!


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  #12  
Old October 14th, 2005, 9:57 pm
Athene  Female.gif Athene is offline
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One of Fortescues ancestors was headmaster at Hogwarts. DD talks to his portrait in OotP as "Fortescue, could you please (do this and that)... " (sorry, I cannot recall in which chapter it was).
I think Florean Fortescue, who has a lot of knowledge, was dragged of by Death Eaters, either because he knows something Voldmoert needs or he knows something that could harm Voldemort (about his Horcruxes???).


  #13  
Old October 14th, 2005, 10:23 pm
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Maybe the Death Eaters just wanted the best ice cream...just kidding!

You're right, Athene, one of Florean's ancestors had a portrait at Hogwarts, which means that he was a former headmaster. Maybe the DE kidnapped Florean because he had another portrait of that ancestor in his house and LV wanted to use the portrait to spy on DD?


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  #14  
Old October 14th, 2005, 10:32 pm
Athene  Female.gif Athene is offline
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That´s a possibility. But on the other hand LV planned to have DD killed, then he would not need to spy on him any more, though. In the meantime he already has Snape to do the job.
I have the feeling, that there is more behind it. I guess that Fortescue knows something about Voldemort´s Horcruxes, or even a particular Horcrux, which Voldemort has hidden somewhere between Diagon Alley and Knockturn Alley. After all, Fortescue would not have been the first to know something about the Horcruxes he shoud not know (from LV´s POV).


  #15  
Old October 14th, 2005, 11:02 pm
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I guess its possible that Florean might have known about the horcruxes, but he seems like a rather marginal character to know something big like that. Clearly, though, he knows something. Maybe Ollivander kidnapped him...just kidding.

I think the two disappearances are related, though. Two shopowners on Diagon Alley disappear. One appears to be kidnapped, and it looks like the other went away voluntarily. Maybe Florean's kidnapping was meant to divert attention from Ollivander's disappearance. I still think Ollivander was put under the Imperius Curse.

Having said that, I still like the idea of Voldemort wanting ice cream and sending DE's off to kidnap Florean!


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  #16  
Old October 14th, 2005, 11:03 pm
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Quote:
One of Fortescues ancestors was headmaster at Hogwarts. DD talks to his portrait in OotP as "Fortescue, could you please (do this and that)... " (sorry, I cannot recall in which chapter it was).
******- you got there before me! I've been thinking for a while now that the Fortescues know something about the Horcruxes. I just got it stuck in my head that Fortescue was a Ravenclaw.


  #17  
Old October 14th, 2005, 11:19 pm
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Perhaps you would enjoy this thread:
Ollivander's, Fortescue's and Zonko's - out of business
? You could probably post your theory there.


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  #18  
Old October 14th, 2005, 11:26 pm
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Also here: Mr Ollivander and Voldemort's new wand

Thanks


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  #19  
Old October 15th, 2005, 4:00 am
Athene  Female.gif Athene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInvisibleF
I just got it stuck in my head that Fortescue was a Ravenclaw.
Do we know this, or are you just assuming this?
I thought of the Fortescues as being Hufflepuffs. As far as I remember, the protrait of Fortescue was a fat man, at least someone who looked like he enjoyed eating (???)
Florean runs an ice-cream parlour, which applies more to the sign Earth, too (Hufflepuff´s sign, according to JKR interview). Enjoying delightful meals and flavours is typically for Earth, not for Air, IMO.


  #20  
Old October 15th, 2005, 6:17 am
TiLoFoShoYo  Undisclosed.gif TiLoFoShoYo is offline
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Maybe Voldemort took Fortescue because he likes to eat ice cream while plotting evil deeds.


 
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