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Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective



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  #1  
Old December 22nd, 2005, 7:20 am
navygreen  Female.gif navygreen is offline
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Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Discussion for The Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective: A Look at Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by Brandon Ford.


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  #2  
Old December 22nd, 2005, 7:59 am
Hermi711
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

"I hope from this then you can gather my reverence of Four - it is the best book. So... it was with extreme trepidation that I sat in an IMAX theatre at midnight waiting for the film version to start. How does one take 728 pages and condense it to two and a half hours?

MY THOUGHTS ON THE MOVIE

BRILLIANTLY, that's how. I have, at this point, seen it twice. A rule I have with both HP and Star Wars is this: the first time is sheer experience, and the second time is with the actual discerning eye. Let me tell you, I am very particular when it comes to my favorite book. I had finished my reread (like most of you) the day before it opened just to refresh myself on some of the richer details. Let's address what was missing first:

- Ludo Bagman and the whole Weasley twin scam
- Winky and the fact that Harry's wand was used to conjure the Dark Mark
- The fact that the Death Eaters were AFRAID of the Dark Mark
- BERTHA JORKINS, anyone?
- S.P.E.W.
- My absolute favorite moment between Harry and Ron when Harry chucks the "Potter Stinks" button and gives the fantastic line: "...maybe now you'll have a scar. That's what you want, isn't it?"
- Rita Skeeter calling Hagrid on front street as a half-giant.
- The fact that Rita Skeeter is an Animagus.
- ALL of the obstacles in the maze
- THE DEMENTORS KISS OF BARTY CROUCH, JR!!!
- The fact that Harry can resist the Imperius curse.
- The exciting Dumbledore vs. Fudge political debate in the hospital wing.
- THE CALLING OF THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX!
- And perhaps the most memorable and important line of the "Remember Cedric" speech: "REMEMBER CEDRIC DIGGORY!""

"My best friend Lesley and I are on opposite sides of this great battle among HP fans. Fortunately for me and unfortunately for her, I have an editorial column and she doesn't, therefore I get the last word. I love Richard Harris (rest in peace), yet even when it was assured that he would be Dumbledore forever, he was always Grandpa Dumbledore. He was the Dumbledore that explained everything at the end of all the books (except Book Six for... sigh... obvious reasons). But when JKR described Dumbledore's burst through the door to Moody's office in Book Four and "radiat[ing] with power", where she, in effect, gave us a preview of the Dumbledore of Book Five that laid the smack down in the Ministry, I could never see Richard Harris credibly do that. But Michael Gambon, to me, is perfect because in relation to me he's old, but he's so youthful and vibrant. I knew it when I saw PoA and he was RUNNING up the stairs to the Fat Lady's picture. RUNNING! This 150-year-old man had the youthful exuberance and energy to RUN up stairs two at a time because of the urgency of the moment.

I see Dumbledore in the same way I see Yoda. He should look old, but not feel old. To me, Dumbledore shouldn't look old until the end of Book Six when he's hanging on to his last bit of power. Michael Gambon has yet to have to handle one of those lengthy Dumbledore monologues where he explains a crapload of info to Harry about everything that has happened (but which he WILL have to at the end of Five). I can, however, picture Michael Gambon in full form, going toe-to-toe with Ralph Fiennes in the Ministry, hurling spells, ducking and dodging objects and fire and spells, basically kicking butt. And while we are on the subject of OotP..."

i agree with all that
i have a pretty hard time telling people they had to fit the 700 or so book into a 2 1/2 film, but it's all gud
i really enjoyed the film, the humor and darkness mixed nicely.


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 8:03 am
ashley_easter  Male.gif ashley_easter is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Send the OOTP stuff to Warner Bros. - they need all the help they can get. Seriously, you've got some good ideas in there! I hope they put in as much thought as you did/will to make sure they don't prematurely kill off future story-lines whilst also staying true to the prior books/films.

I also think that someone (Matthew Lewis?) told a MuggleCaster / PotterCaster that his Christmas on the Ward scene was being kept? And also a rumour about Lockhart being kept too (maybe from David Heyman?) That's just what I think I've heard. *worried*

Good editorial though.


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 8:04 am
ebrown2112  Male.gif ebrown2112 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

They are not cutting "Snape's Worst Memory," as they are casting a Young Snape, Young James, Young Lupin, Young Sirius, etc.

As far as what was changed in GOF:
1) I thought the film version of the maze was a big improvement (in the book, the sphinx's riddle is really, really lame);
2) they didn't really need S.P.E.W., Ludo, or the House Elves.
3) The other stuff, details and time constraints. I do think that they probably should have mentioned the formation of the Order, however.


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 11:50 am
waggawaggawer  Undisclosed.gif waggawaggawer is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Now Brendan, I am so glad you showed not only why GOF couldn't contain one of my favourite bits (Rita Skeeter's capture), but also how OOP could be shortened. I like the idea of an emergency hearing, but I hope they have time for Petunia's bombshell about the Dementors. And Ministry dissatisfaction over the previous DADA appointments might seem a reasonable excuse for Dolores.

I wonder if you could also analyse how HBP would be filmed. It is, after all, not so much shorter than GOF.


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 12:35 pm
DanielRadclif  Female.gif DanielRadclif is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Brandon, my genius friend, you rock. Rock rock rock rock rock.

There was so much we all must agree with. Your analysis of what was passable and what was horribly missing, as well as movie 5 (which is going to be a hell of task, no pun intended).

However, I can't agree with you on Gambon. I maintain that Gambon is the biggest loser of the century - THERE ARE NO COMPLEXITIES TO HP?!?!?!?!?!?!? And the kicker is, Gambon NEVER seems like he loves Harry! This is essential to el prophecio.

However, your brilliance shon (sp?) through:
Quote:
...and the fact that he is blatantly doing magic outside of Hogwarts in the "faux-porno" scene in Movie Three ("Lumos Maxima" my eye... you aren't fooling anyone, Alfonso Cuaron)...

...I better have my "I must not tell lies" scar or somebody is in trouble.
Great job, and good luck with the synopsis of Five. HOORAY for BRANDON!!!


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 1:57 pm
dhaney  Female.gif dhaney is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Great editorial! Most of what you said is completely right!

Anyway, with the hiring of Umbrige, they have to make it seem like they (the school) is forced by the Ministry to hire her and she have a say in everything that goes on in the school, so that she can do her gloating and controlling without fear, even from Dumbledore himself.

Isn't the "Snape's Worst Memory" definitely in the movie? They're casting mini-version of Snape, Lily, and the Marauders, aren't they? Oh, well...

And, I also like Kingsley. I think he's one of the coolest members of the order.

Again, great job!


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 2:40 pm
danni_shez  Female.gif danni_shez is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Great editorial. So glad I came back to reading your work.

I still have mixed feelings about the film... I need to see it again

but I sure do agree with you and your thoughts on Michael Gambon as Dumbledore. That scene after Harry's name is shot from the Goblet, all I saw in Dumbledore's eyes was fear. I didn't think he was yelling at Harry; I thought he was terrified for Harry. He does a great job. And yes, he's the only version I can imagine kicking Voldemort's butt at the end of OotP.

Well done!


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 3:52 pm
bingbang  Female.gif bingbang is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

The one thing that I am really worried about for the OOTP movie, that you mentioned in passing, was the Weasly twins. Since there wasn't too much told about them and their joke shop in the GOF movie, I'm really worried it'll all get cut. I hope I'm wrong.
Anyway excellent editorial.


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 3:59 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Good analysis as always, Brandon.

I agree with you about Lumos Maxima. What a nasty implication to throw into the Potter movies.

And I certainly agree with you about Kill the spare. The most chilling three words I've ever read.

Like you, I watched the movie the first time for the total experience, and what an experience it was. The second time, I paid attention to the details, particularly Dan, Rupert and Emma's performances. I've always been a fan of Rupe's acting and now that he was given something to do, he didn't let me down. Dan responded spectacularly to Newell's direction. Now that Emma was allowed to be more than a frenetic Hermione, I was definitely impressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danni_shez
but I sure do agree with you and your thoughts on Michael Gambon as Dumbledore. That scene after Harry's name is shot from the Goblet, all I saw in Dumbledore's eyes was fear. I didn't think he was yelling at Harry; I thought he was terrified for Harry. He does a great job. And yes, he's the only version I can imagine kicking Voldemort's butt at the end of OotP.
I agree, too. The trailer didn't do the scene justice and it had to be viewed in context. Gambon was great. I also agree with Brandon that Harris wasn't up to the job. It may have been his final illness in CoS that gave that impression. I think he did a good job of portraying the kindly old wizard, but he could never have handled GoF, OotP or HBP.

Just a quick word about Brendan Gleeson ... BRAVO.

As for OotP ... I have a sneaking suspicion that Steve Kloves opted out of the screenplay after reading the book. GoF lends itself to taking out huge unrelated chunks. OotP doesn't.

Thanks again, Brandon.


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 4:02 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by bingbang
The one thing that I am really worried about for the OOTP movie, that you mentioned in passing, was the Weasly twins. Since there wasn't too much told about them and their joke shop in the GOF movie, I'm really worried it'll all get cut. I hope I'm wrong.
Since the Weasley twins had a much bigger role in GoF, I'm not as worried about that as I was before. Still worried some, but not as worried. They did at least show the twins selling stuff at the tasks. That's a subtle lead-in at least.


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 4:53 pm
spiders  Undisclosed.gif spiders is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Ok... maybe I'm thick, but what in the name Hagrids Aunt Fanny does "TFPWWNBN" mean? Please inform the uninformed? I know it has to do with Snape, but I must know it's meaning!

I havent finished the editorial yet, because this is destracting me. So far, what I've read, I completely agree with!


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 5:15 pm
fourthsilmaril fourthsilmaril is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective


Wow, great analysis. I agree with most of what you said, but there are a few disagreements that I have:

1) "and did she not just throw a delightful fit at Ron and then cry just like a girl would?" Just like a girl would?!? With that delightful line you just insulted the ENTIRE female population of the world. Nice job.
2) I am not a Michael Gambon fan. I always saw Dumbledore as the grandfatherly-like figure more than the energetic, up-beat old man. Michael Gambon was better in GoF than PoA, but he just doesn't have that twinkle in his eye that Richard Harris did. When it was found that we couldn't HAVE him play Dumbledore anymore, I was devastated. After I got over that, I became one of those rooting for Ian McKellan as the "groovy new dumbledore"

other than that, great job!


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 5:16 pm
fourthsilmaril fourthsilmaril is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

to:spiders
it means "the former professor who will not be named"


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 5:27 pm
stwonks  Female.gif stwonks is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

the weasley twin escape seen MUST be there!!! just throw out all the Cho drama (which you forgot to mention) and put in the escape (in verbatum) its to brillaint to change a portable swamp and some wildfire wizbangs would be greatly appriciated to. I really would love to have the 'Give her hell from us Peeves" part to but scince they nixed peeves back in 1.....i hate cuts


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 5:37 pm
mia305  Female.gif mia305 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

You know, I never took "Lumos Maxima" in that way! And I generally tend to have a bit of a dirty mind with things like that, ie I take them the wrong way LOL! Great editorial, I agree with everything you said about the GoF movie. I think you're right about Gambon showing Dumbledore's youthfulness...although I didn't like his agressiveness and I liked the way Richard Harris showed Dumbledore's wisdom and calmness. They both emphasised different aspects of his personality in the way they play him. Good ideas regarding OotP movie, I think you'll make a great screenwriter!


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 5:39 pm
Lumpin  Male.gif Lumpin is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

BRANDON FORD FOR MOVIE 7 SCREENPLAY WRITER!!!
That was a great analysis and coming from an HP Purist like myself (I am yet to meet someone who hates the movies more) that's saying a lot. One thing you didn't mention though that I was hoping you of all people would have is the fact that extra comedy/drama/romance scenes were added into the movie taking up precious HP movie time that could be spent building up the main plot. I felt that the movie was extremely confusing to non-readers because it is so fast-paced and explanations, if any, are kept as short as possible. No explanation whatsoever of how BC Jr. got out of Azkaban... Well, I'm gonna try and keep this short because I could easily get this comment longer than your editorial and it'll just turn into worthless, angry rambling, but I think you did a great job taking a look at the movie as a movie itself, as much as I disagree with you (i am so contradictory!). I really hope you get the job for movie 7!


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 6:36 pm
Adults4Harry  Female.gif Adults4Harry is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

Kingsley is my fav of the forward guard (heck, named my dog after him) and I will be sad if he is cut... but you had some great ideas and insight into what/how they might cut the book down for movie 5.
I was not a big movie 4 fan, perhaps even my least fav (though my fav book) so it iwll be interesting to see how they continue to create movies from such large complex books!

Always look forword to your editorials, Brandon.


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 6:37 pm
misskneazle  Female.gif misskneazle is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

You do not get the last word... MICHAEL GAMBON is HORRIBLE. Sorry(and though I really dont like him, I'm being silly). Anyway, I agree with most of your ed this time. I too think GOF is the most brilliant book of the series(even though JKR said she thinks it's overrated). I did the opposite of what you did when viewing the movies. The first time I saw GOF, I was analyzing hard and I didn't like it very much. The second time, I viewed it as a movie, and really loved it! It's weird how the mind works. I also agree that POA not including the Marauders story was HORRIBLE, I think it's the main reason why I didn't like the movie(although it was great visually). I agree with you that most of what was cut from GOF was okay with the exceptions you mentioned. I actually think they will have an easier time cutting things from OOTP as opposed to GOF, because so much that happens is repetitive(although it is my second favorite book). Ah well, good job!


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Old December 22nd, 2005, 6:42 pm
big_JKR_fan  Female.gif big_JKR_fan is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #30 - Forced Perspective

they have to put the hearing so harry can see the department of mysteries and understand the room he's dreaming about is at the ministry of magic. they also can't cut the dursleys in this film because dumbledore later explains about petunia's protection and how harry has to go there every summer and harry gets angry about him for putting him with the dursleys and not letting him know anything when ron and hermione are at grimauld place


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