Like Father, Like Son...Or Not?

[blaqlives]

Discussion of The Burrow article Like Father, Like Son...Or Not? by Jaclyn Kacewich.

[cenzonico]

It may be that Snape had to kill Dumbledore to stay alive himself, due to the unbreakable vow. And if Snape was really a good guy, that's why he was so angry that Harry called him a coward. But will Snape have to save Draco from Voldemort again and if so will he battle the Dark Lord himself? Or has his vow been completed and he doesn't have to worry about Draco anymore? In saving Draco a second time, will he be helping Harry?

[jamiemcjames]

Well written, nicely done. I definitely agree that Draco is a product of his environment, which really is too bad because Draco is clearly a bright kid.
I also think that for all the belly aching he does about Dumbledore, he really finds Hogwarts quite comfortable and safe. I think he complains about Dumbledore and the running of the school in his father's words to sound competent and in charge to those who follow him. I agree that he probably doesn't truly agree with half the stuff he says.
It's sad that Draco has and will be lost. I don't know if I necessarily feel very badly for Draco, but I do feel very badly about the situation he is in.

[thinkb4uact]

First, I think you've hit on something in regards to Snape's fate along with Draco's fate. I also appreciate the fact that you're like me in never having been infatuated with the bad boy. When I look at Draco I see the same as you: a product. He's main influences have been his parents and their cohorts. Draco, regardless of his own personality traits, wouldn't necessarily be able to be "good" within his household. Had he been, he'd have been rather like a mini-Sirius. He would be dispised by his family and for the most part by the time he'd made connections at the school his future was pretty set. It's apparent to me that the teachers who are good in the books or even other role models haven't taken the time to really try to help Draco think for himself. Unfortunately, kids don't often realize that the school bullies and jerks are only bullies and jerks because they can only see from one perspective and have no one trying to broaden that perspective and care about them.

One thing I found interesting that you brought up was the doubtful ability of Draco to fit into the good side should he finally swing that way. I simply want to caution on that. It's a little early yet to make that statement. People may argue till doomsday that Snape is evil or clearly works for Voldemort, but we really just don't know that. Rowling did say he's a nasty piece of work, but again Snape was a product himself. Yet, when he asked for redemption he recieved it from Dumbledore. He might not have fit in so nicely, but he was on the good side just the same. Snape's actions, I think, therefore are even more pertinent regarding Draco's future. Harry is now leading the show in many ways, perhaps taking Dumbledore's place himself symbolically. If Draco is to have a chance for redemption it may lie in whether or not Snape's original repentance was an honest repentance and Snape is really on the good side afterall. However, I don't want to make the statement that Harry doesn't have a good enough heart that even if Snape does go bad and Draco wishes to come to the good side that he'll reject him--I just think it's harder to believe that he would given Snape's example.

Thanks for broaching the topic. As creepy as Draco and Snape are I think they're worthy of a lot more thought and to remind us not to shrug off those who seem like jerks. Maybe, if someone had taken the time to figure out what was going on with them earlier in their lives they might not be where they are currently.

[NoNameLeft]

Draco is not bad and never will be. If the Death Eaters hadn't came, Draco and his would be members of the Order of the Phoenix.

[TheAurorTonks]

Nicely written. I also never feel in love with Draco, and at the same time I don't think he is merely a product of his enviroment. Does Lucius have a great influence on his son? Yes, I don't think that anyone could deny it, when we first meet him he is a young boy who hangs on every word his daddy says, but at what point to we start to hold a person accountable for their own actions. At what point do we expect Draco to stop, look around him and realize that "muddbloods" have just as much, if not more magical ablitites as everyone else? When do we expect him to look at the divistatin caused by death eaters and feel for the victims, and not glorify the crimes of Voldimorte.

Is Draco a "redemable" Character? Not in my opinion. Yest in HBP we saw him cry in the bathroom, I think I would too if I felt that I was going to be killed soon.

Non of us will know of course until book seven. Then we will find out why he cried, and why he didn't kill Dumbledor, was he scared or did he look into the eyes of the man he has protected him for the past six years, dispite his distain for him and feel sorry for him, and sorry for everything he has done to him? We don't know yet, and until we do... I with hold my finale conclustion.

[Beatriceblake]

One thing that bugged me about HBP was Narcissa's assumption Draco's task would put him in danger. Did she really think Dumbledore would harm a child? I wodner if Draco believed that. The only danger was that Voldemort would punish Draco when he [most likely] failed to kill Dumbledore.

[TheAurorTonks]

Beatriceblake I don't think that anyone really believed that Draco was in danger from Dumbledore. I think the assumtion was that he would be unable to fullfil Voldimorte's request and that Voldimorte would then use this as a reason to kill Draco... there by showing the incompatice of both Lucious and his son, and punishing Lucius in the worst way possible.

[weaselytwin3]

Great! Very well-written, and awesome evidence. I agree with your idea 100%. JKR does seem to emphasize that, up until the sixth book, all of Draco's ideas have come directly from his father's influence, and -during the sixth book- Snape's "mentorship." It's going to be interesting who/what Draco decides to turn to if something happens to Snape as well.

[CrookshanksG]

This is one of the best "Draco" editorials I have read. I agree that Draco is a product of his parents' examples, prejudices, teachings... His childhood environment.

What would happen if you change Draco's environment?

Is it too late for him?

I don't think so.
For some things, yes, Draco will always be snotty, arrogant, cunning, and self-preserving. He will always feel that pure-bloods should be above the rest and resent any half-blood or muggleborn that beats him an anyway.
But, his flat out racism I believe will be toned down a lot, his respect for those who are powerful, regardless of the "side" they stand, will rise and will guide him in the future.

But that's just my theory.

[Cavalier]

Sorry, but I just don't buy into the "product of his environment" theory.

It IS an interesting way to look at things, however, and I respect the author for their idea.

That said, if one is a product of one's environment, why is Harry not like the Dursleys at all? I mean, as a child, Harry was repressed, suffocated and generally not allowed any happiness while being picked on continually by Dudley. Harry is in fact the complete opposite of the Dursleys; He is kind, generous, readily accepts people. Now he does have tantrums as all teens do, but he is the complete opposite of his environment.

Draco is more a coward than a bully. Draco is pathetic, and his actions prove it. A bully will do things for everyone to see. A coward will strike from behind (as he tries in GoF), will attack his victim when he has his friends to back him up (numerous references) and will run away when someone actually stands up to him (as Hermione does in PoA).

I feel only loathing at Draco. I feel much less towards his father since in a way, he isn't the coward his son is and he will actually DO what needs to be done to get things to go his way.

In Draco, I think we have the embodiment of the Dursleys but in a setting where Harry can actually defend himself.

[thinkb4uact]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

Sorry, but I just don't buy into the "product of his environment" theory.

It IS an interesting way to look at things, however, and I respect the author for their idea.

That said, if one is a product of one's environment, why is Harry not like the Dursleys at all? I mean, as a child, Harry was repressed, suffocated and generally not allowed any happiness while being picked on continually by Dudley. Harry is in fact the complete opposite of the Dursleys; He is kind, generous, readily accepts people. Now he does have tantrums as all teens do, but he is the complete opposite of his environment.

Draco is more a coward than a bully. Draco is pathetic, and his actions prove it. A bully will do things for everyone to see. A coward will strike from behind (as he tries in GoF), will attack his victim when he has his friends to back him up (numerous references) and will run away when someone actually stands up to him (as Hermione does in PoA).

I feel only loathing at Draco. I feel much less towards his father since in a way, he isn't the coward his son is and he will actually DO what needs to be done to get things to go his way.

In Draco, I think we have the embodiment of the Dursleys but in a setting where Harry can actually defend himself.

In regards to Harry being like the Dusleys it makes perfect sense that he would not be like the Dusleys. Harry was emotionally abused by the Dusleys (and physically given the lack of food). I came from a household where I was abused as well and I can say that while we're affected by our environment the thing that shapes us most is the wish to get out of that environment and to be in a normal environment (where people care, etc). Harry is a product of his environment insofar as he rebels from it. I think Draco is a product because in many ways he's been given everything he could ever ask for, but has been manipulated and brain washed into believing the nonsense that his father has exposed him to all his life. I also have the feeling that Draco may feel inferior to his father then he too has a "thirst to prove himself" like the sorting hat said of Harry. He's been given a task to prove himself, in fact. I don't think Draco's influence from his parents can be so easily disregarded.

[hermiones_twi]

nice editorial!

i, like you, used to hate draco. i thought him evil, cruel, and just plain mean. i never could understand how people liked draco, that is until HP and the HBP arrived. reading that book changed my whole perspective on draco (not to mention snape). i felt sorry for draco for the first time ever and i realised what a horrible situation he was in. a realised that he was just a young boy that was not evil, just brought up (like you said) to act like that. he actually cared for his family. he was afraid they would be killed because of him. when dumbledore offered to protect draco and his family i was begging draco to side with dumbledore. begging him to realise his mistakes. begging him to go with dumbledore and keep his family safe. but alas, he did not. and now i feel sorry for draco more than ever.

and i disagree with you that draco will be honored for what he did. i think voldemort at first will be happy (for lack of a better word) that dumbledore was forced into a corner and therefore killed because of draco. but then i think voldy will realise that draco, a young boy, could defeat dumbledore while he could not. he never really expected draco to do it, and just saw it as an excuse to get rid of him and his family. but now voldy's followers might question voldemort's abilities. he calls himself the most powerful wizard, but he could not defeat dumbledore, while a young unexperienced boy can (with the fact that snape actually did it)

just my 2 cents

[cp_large]

Not a bad effort but I can't agree with the idea that Malfoy is a "lost" (to evil?) character. Two arguments spring immediately to mind:

1) It's poor form for an author to aboandon a character as lost. It makes them appear one-dimensional and we know there's more to Malfoy than that.

2) J.K.R loves her characters too dearly to allow them no chance of redemption. I don't pretend to know what is in her mind but as far a I can see, Voldemort is the only character who embraces evil for its own sake.

[Ireth_ae]

Well, the Weasley children are "products of environment" as well; they respect what their parents respect, like Draco, like many, many persons.

Draco's environment is a factor, yes, but you mustn’t mix up education and personality. Like Cavalier said,

Draco is more a coward than a bully. Draco is pathetic, and his actions prove it. A bully will do things for everyone to see. A coward will strike from behind (as he tries in GoF), will attack his victim when he has his friends to back him up (numerous references) and will run away when someone actually stands up to him (as Hermione does in PoA).

I feel only loathing at Draco. I feel much less towards his father since in a way, he isn't the coward his son is and he will actually DO what needs to be done to get things to go his way.

I agree that Draco can be pitied, but I'd like to nuance that statement.

Draco isn't Sirius. He wanted to be a Death Eater. He likes the Dark Arts, he wanted to be sent at Durmstrang, he wanted to avenge his father, etc. Like Regulus Black, he may shares Voldemort's ideals (to purify the Wizarding World), but he hasn't got the nerve (yet?) to follow his orders. Because a 16 years old can't kill someone doesn't mean he will never be able to. Draco is still young. The way things are going, he'll probably become a real Death Eater one day.

In your editorial, you say you "believe that Dumbledore sacrificed himself to Snape so that Draco's innocence would not be lost."
I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Firstly, I do not believe that Dumbledore "sacrificed himself". I think Snape murdered him. I know, I know, that's another discussion.
Secondly, the most important thing to Dumbledore was Harry. He always put him above the rest, he said so in OotP. And anyway, what is a person’s innocence in a war? Draco is not that important. Harry is; besides, Draco chose this, he was not forced into his “mission”. Why would Dumbledore put so much importance on Draco’s innocence? To me, it doesn’t make sense.

I think Draco is a “lost” character, in the sense that he chose his side too early. Maybe he will regret it later, but I don’t think he will redeem himself. I’m not saying it is impossible, though.

All in all, that was a good editorial. While I don’t agree with everything, you definitively made some very good points. What caught my attention was:

Now I pose this question: Is it at all possible that either secretly or subconsciously, Draco actually feels safe at Hogwarts with Dumbledore? This would all make sense, because whether Draco was brought up to be a supporter of Voldemort or not, he was still brought up by another coward. No matter how intimidating Lucius ever pretended to be, in the end, he feared Voldemort just as much as anybody else.

It is possible. That would be an interesting take on Draco’s character.
Draco wants to be recognised; he can’t impress Dumbledore (whose eyes are on Harry), but he can impress Voldemort by being a DE. Maybe Draco was annoyed with Dumbledore because, in his opinion, he never gave him a chance. I don’t know…

I just don’t think he will have a lot of importance in B7. I don't like him that much, anyway.

[Thekla]

i really liked this editorial
I've never really liked Draco, well, to be honest, I hated him.
It's not much better now, but it sort of softened a bit. I'm feeling sorry for him, but not too much. as Ireth_ae sayd: Draco chosed to be a death eater!!!
He reminds me a bit of regulus black. Grown up in a family of dark wizards, alsways wanted to actualy act like a dark grown up wizard. But when it's getting serious, he realises it's a number too big for him (do you use this phrase in english too?)

you can call them cowards, OR you can see them as: not bad enough
I, personally, prefer a mixture of these two possibilities...

I have this theory, that draco is going to play a really important part in book 7
He might flee from the death eaters (very much like regulus) and after not knowing what to do, he tries to handle with the 'good side'

he may have important informations, or he tries to act as a second snape (being a double agent) but i doubt that he has the guts to do that...
Well, I think that this is also a process of learning for Harry (I think Jo likes to write such things: the developement of the charakters)
He has to find out, that there is not only black and white, that there are not only death eaters and dumbledore's men... There is a great variety of grey out there and draco is among them.

So he has to try and forgive draco for plotting this murder
He has to work togheter with the very person, the very first 'dark wizard' he hated... (it's almost like sirious working together with snape on one side.... with the differents that snape was in fact, a real death eater)
that's going to be really interesting!! I'm looking forward to it!

[06r_here_i_am]

I think you have some really good points here. The whole idea of him being a 'product of his environment' is blatantly true and his father's influence has definatley not helped his situation. I also would like to make a point, about his friends. The fact he has hung around with Crabbe and Goyle are a major factor of the way he is. They can't exactly be good for him; all they do is follow him around. He ended up having to confide in moaning myrtle (as i think you mentioned) this must add to some sort of lonliness and im betting his parents didn't offer much comfort to him throughout his life other than material things. Lonliness can be a big factor of his character. I think you've said it all really - ace job.

[HermonieRocks10]

Very well written! And I agree 100%. Draco was just a kid who was brought to believe in the same way his father and mother did. It's like the children who grow up in families that are racist. I never liked him but I did feel sorry for him in this book. Maybe he'll come the good side in time who knows? If Snape is on the good side then he could be too.

[jeb0309]

This was a good editorial. It touches on all the concepts that I think JKR meant to convey through her writing. Children may be (or rather, are) influenced by thier parents in many ways, some good and some, well, not so good. What I think JKR tried to convey about Draco is that he is a spoiled only child of intelligent but morally challenged parents who have equipped him with the tools, resources and contacts needed to succeed in a cynical, heartless world, the only world he knows.

I am sure that there is a significant amount of depth that my fellow Potter fans can explore. At present, I am a little too tired to try, so I will continue to appreciate reading your posts.

[Emma_Lee_Youzen]

Good point, really a nice and impressive one!

Draco is really a naughty,wicked boy before HBP.

But in HBP ,wanted it or not, he turned to be dangerous and evil when he accepted Voltemort's mission.I do pity him when I saw him crying.We can see how frightened he was when he and his family's life were just lie on him(and it is obvious that he loves his family very much).After all he was just 16 and didn't deserve that kind of burden.

And I think it's reasonable that Draco couldn't kill Dumbledore.Nobel and wise as Dumbledore was,he won the respect form almost everybody(even from Voltemort).Moreover,Hogwarts had been Draco's home for six years with Dumbledore as the headmaster.He had been under Dumbledore's protection for so many years.Dumbledore was father,even god for him in some ways,and he idolized Dumbledore(we can see it from his yearning for Dumbledore's approvement).How could Draco make the decision to kill such a god-like person?

But all in all, that can't change the fact of Draco to be an evil character.What is done is done,there is no excuse for him to lessen the mistakes he had already made.

I still don't like him and won't like him,ether.