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Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not



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  #1  
Old January 7th, 2006, 1:53 am
navygreen  Female.gif navygreen is offline
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Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Discussion for The Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not by Brandon Ford.


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  #2  
Old January 7th, 2006, 2:21 am
The Obsesser  Female.gif The Obsesser is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Oh, my. Brandon, I have to say this again - your editorials are something very akin to brilliance. I don't think there's a sinble one that has not given me much to consider, and much to be amused about. This time around is no exception.

Quote:
That's when it hit me: I'M THINKING LIKE VOLDEMORT! What killed Voldemort last time? THE POWER THE DARK LORD KNOWS NOT!
*nods* Exactly what I was thinking. We think love is such a weak force, such a pushover compared to the spells and curses and extreme power and talent the Dark Lord has - well, we've just entered the universe of our dear Voldy. He didn't learn the first time around, and he'll fall prey to that same power a second time. Lucky for Harry and for us, don't you think?

I'm not sure if I personally agree that Ginny is the one who is going to feel the love for Harry. I personally believe that the bonds of friendship are stronger than those of romance, particularly since Harry has expierienced six years' worth of struggle with Ron and Hermionie at his side. You make some very valid points though. If it does turn out to be Ginny, JKR is going to have to write that in very cleverly. Not that she can't, though. How could I lose faith in Jo?

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The reason Harry was going to die was because he had nothing to fight for.
I couldn't have put this better, Brandon. Exactly what I've been trying to explain to many people! I think I will be referring people to this editorial quite often!


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Old January 7th, 2006, 2:42 am
MarauderChick  Female.gif MarauderChick is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Wow. Deep stuff, deep stuff. Your editorials always leave me with something to think about and I don't think I've ever really disagreed with anything you've said (although I'm not as convinced as you are that Harry's going to die). The last paragraph was especially resonating.


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Old January 7th, 2006, 2:51 am
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Wow Brandon! You're right on!

I think the relationship between Ron and Hermione will come into play as well. Harry's world is personified by Ginny, which is enough alone, but when Ron and Hermione finally get around to admitting their feelings to each other, Harry's going to see the love between them as motivation for snuffing Voldy and saving the world too.

I will be sad when he dies, but for heck's sake, the kid deserves a little family reunion.


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Old January 7th, 2006, 3:05 am
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

I always enjoy your editorials, Brandon. And I agree with you that Ginny is going to be a big factor. Yes, Harry would sacrifice himself in an instant for Ginny. Hasn't his whole life at Hogwarts been about his willingness to sacrifice himself for others? But it is his love for Ginny that will pull Harry back from the brink. It is her love that sustains him. It was Ginny that brought him out of his depression in OotP. It was Ginny that was able to tear Harry away from Albus' body.

Especially after reading HBP, I have every faith that JKR can pull off the "love power" ending without being sappy.


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Old January 7th, 2006, 3:12 am
mrsweasley5  Undisclosed.gif mrsweasley5 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Well done, Brandon! You never disappoint!

However, I think Harry will survive. Meanwhile, Jo will do a fantastic job of fooling us all into thinking he's dead.


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Old January 7th, 2006, 3:56 am
tovarbaker  Undisclosed.gif tovarbaker is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Quote:
Upon hearing the Prophecy (at this point, everyone should know the one I mean), I have always feared that "the power the dark lord knows not" would be something stupid like love. I say something stupid because as an avid fan of HP, it disgusted me for a long time to think that JKR would "take the easy way out" and have Voldemort undone by something as simple as love
what an amazing idiot! since when has love been simple.

that is the problem with 21 century America, or the world. they can't even understand the concept of the word love, and all it entails. they think of it as being something that they read about in stupid novels, or what they see between actors on TV shows on the WB. when the depth and complexity of the word goes much deeper than that... and if all you gleaned from reading HBP is something simplistic and nonsensical than maybe you should give up your freakin column


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Old January 7th, 2006, 4:09 am
enmapotter  Female.gif enmapotter is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Wow Brandon, you are a contradiction... first you say Voldemort won't be killed by something as "stupid" as love and then you write all that stuff to prove yourself wrong.

Quote:
This "power the dark lord knows not," or Reverse Horcrux, is the opposite: the saving of another soul through a supreme act of goodness. In other words, by sacrificing yourself to save someone else, you create a force so positively charged (that is, charged with love and goodness), that evil cannot stand it.
Call it "Reverse horcrux" if you want to, but it sounds like love to me.

I don't think the "power the dark lord knows not" is just love. If this misterious power was love indeed, couldn't Voldie be killed by anybody else too? or does that mean that Harry is the only person who loves? or he loves more than others, or maybe... he's in love with Voldemort!? There has to be something else. Something more extreme.

And I agree with you about Harry getting together with Ginny after seeing her looking really gorgeous at the wedding, this could be very possible.



Last edited by enmapotter; January 7th, 2006 at 4:27 am.
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Old January 7th, 2006, 4:14 am
SeverusSupporte  Female.gif SeverusSupporte is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Here's a theory, Lily worked in that locked room in the Department of Mysteries and that's why Voldemort would have spared her, to get information about love. It would explain why JKR is so secretive about her job and that locked room. Could it be possible that she might have put charms on Harry (her wand was excellent for charms) that she had learned from that room that gave Harry extra protection when Voldemort tried to kill him? Maybe Lily was just the last ingredient in the ultimate love potion. Just a quick thought.


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Old January 7th, 2006, 4:29 am
cal1  Undisclosed.gif cal1 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

By connecting Ginny to Harry,she gave him a family,and by connecting Ron and Hermy it assures us they'll be always together.It doesn't sound like she is planning on killing Harry.


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  #11  
Old January 7th, 2006, 4:42 am
potter101  Female.gif potter101 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

i really like brandons theary and i hope he keeps it up..... lthough... i dont want harry to die.-----*dumb look on face* ----- thats what he said right?


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  #12  
Old January 7th, 2006, 6:02 am
onemanarmy  Female.gif onemanarmy is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeverusSupporte
Here's a theory, Lily worked in that locked room in the Department of Mysteries and that's why Voldemort would have spared her, to get information about love. It would explain why JKR is so secretive about her job and that locked room. Could it be possible that she might have put charms on Harry (her wand was excellent for charms) that she had learned from that room that gave Harry extra protection when Voldemort tried to kill him? Maybe Lily was just the last ingredient in the ultimate love potion. Just a quick thought.

I suggests you go back and reread. The protection that saved harry's life was "old magic." It simply happened when she sacraficed herself for him." She didn't cast a special spell before she was killed. Though she may have worked for the DoM, that doesn't mean before she died she thought "Well, if i die Harry will be safe." Most likely her only thought was, "I'll die before anyone hurts my son."


Ok and as for the column,

I think you made Lily's protection over Harry slightly more complicated by calling it a "reverse horcrux." Maybe you just meant it was "similar magic," but you lost me for a second. Anyway, you made a good point about why Voldemort doesn't understand love or sacrafice (what would you get out of sacraficing yourself?).

Second, though you started to mention the locked room in the department of mysteries where they studied love, you never mentioned that perhaps this room will be valuable in the destruction of Voldy. Maybe harry will throw him in their first, weakening him (Dumbledore said he Voldy couldn't stand posessing Harry's body for more than a few moments because it was so full of love in OotP). Or maybe he'll go their to learn something, and figure out he already knows everything he needs about love. I guess i don't see why JKR would mention it without it being significant.

Also, Though I do think the Veil will be important (JKR doesn't kill someone off with it, and never discuss it again...Sirius might as well have been Avada Kedavra'd if that's the case), I'm not sure it will be used to finish Voldy. It seems to easy, and potentionally, too humane.I have my own ideas of how i would liek to see Voldemort go, but thats for another day.


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Old January 7th, 2006, 6:41 am
pamela meza  Female.gif pamela meza is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Quote:
Wow Brandon, you are a contradiction... first you say Voldemort won't be killed by something as "stupid" as love and then you write all that stuff to prove yourself wrong.


Quote:
This "power the dark lord knows not," or Reverse Horcrux, is the opposite: the saving of another soul through a supreme act of goodness. In other words, by sacrificing yourself to save someone else, you create a force so positively charged (that is, charged with love and goodness), that evil cannot stand it.


Call it "Reverse horcrux" if you want to, but it sounds like love to me.

I don't think the "power the dark lord knows not" is just love. If this misterious power was love indeed, couldn't Voldie be killed by anybody else too? or does that mean that Harry is the only person who loves? or he loves more than others, or maybe... he's in love with Voldemort!? There has to be something else. Something more extreme.
1st: the power IS love (!)
2nd: his not contradicting himself, he's proving himself wrong (as you said, but I guess you didn't realized he did it on purpose) he change his mind if you didn't notice it (c'mon who would have said those thougths in public if he did not thougth he had been an idiot for thinking like that )
3rd: I do not think Brandon is an idiot (in present tense :P, couldn't help it)
4th: by calling it reverse horcrux (and I agree with this dafinition because it works like and opossite, Jo is genius btw) he is not denyng it IS love, he's just trying to be pedagogical ( i supose thats a word if not sorry spanish is my first language)
5th: the power is LOVE and that's Brandon editorial theme, that he realized it is love indeed, and not as he (stupidly) thougth.

Quote:
what an amazing idiot! since when has love been simple.

that is the problem with 21 century America, or the world. they can't even understand the concept of the word love, and all it entails. they think of it as being something that they read about in stupid novels, or what they see between actors on TV shows on the WB. when the depth and complexity of the word goes much deeper than that... and if all you gleaned from reading HBP is something simplistic and nonsensical than maybe you should give up your freakin column
well, maybe you should continue reading because it was a very good editorial


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Old January 7th, 2006, 6:43 am
SusanRaven  Female.gif SusanRaven is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Brandon, I really enjoy your column, but I came to a different conclusion. I believe that Ron will sacrifice himself to protect Harry while he's weak or hurt, and Voldemort will make the same mistake twice: hit Harry with the Avada Kedavra, only to have it rebound onto himself. I could believe, however, that Harry might get himself into that weakened state to protect Ginny...

Susan


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Old January 7th, 2006, 7:17 am
SeverusSupporte  Female.gif SeverusSupporte is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Dear onemanarmy,
I meant that she could have put charms on Harry long before Voldemort came, not when she knew he was in her house. She knew the prophesy and she knew Voldemort might come after Harry. JKR has said that Lily did not know what she was doing in sacrificing herself and I believe that and I believe as you believe that she would have died before she would let anyone hurt her son. I'm just saying maybe her death, along with spells she may have cast beforehand, may have protected Harry more than simply Lily choosing to die. Voldemort says that it was old magic but what would he know about the old magic related to love. He said himself to Dumbledore when he came back for the DADA job that he had found nothing that suggested that love was the most powerful thing in the world.


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It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.

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Old January 7th, 2006, 8:19 am
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

[quote=enmapotter]I don't think the "power the dark lord knows not" is just love. If this misterious power was love indeed, couldn't Voldie be killed by anybody else too? or does that mean that Harry is the only person who loves? or he loves more than others,[/QUOTE
I think you're missing one half of the prophecy. It says that "The Dark Lord will mark him as his equal but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not. Both of these components are what enable Harry to defeat Voldemort - he has bee marked as his equal (having Parseltonge, a brother wand, etc.), which will make him capable of defeating Voldemort, and he has love, which will motivate him to defeat Voldemort. Canon tells us as much:


Quote:
"So, when the prophecy says that I'll have 'power the Dark Lord knows not', it just means - love?" asked Harry, feeling a little let down.

"Yes - just love," said Dumbledore. "But Harry, never forget that what the prophecy says is only significant because Voldemore made it so. I told you this at the end of last year. Voldemore singled you out as the person who would be most dangerous to him - and in doing so, he made you the person who would be most dangerous to him!"
And later:
Quote:
"[Voldemort] heard the prophecy and he leapt into action, with the result that he not only handpicked the man most likely to finish him, he handed him uniquely deadly weapons!"
So, Harry's ability to defeat Voldemort is due to the abilities transferred to him by Voldemort's initial attack - not due to love. Harry's choice to defeat Voldemort, at whatever cost, is due to love, and it is because of love that he has not turned to the Dark Side.

Brandon, I think your essay was good, but I highly doubt that Ginny will be the deciding factor in Voldemort's defeat. Rowling can't have emphasized friendship and family above all else for six straight books, and even ended HBP on that theme, to have the deciding and most important form of love be romantic. It doesn't make logical sense.


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Old January 7th, 2006, 11:22 am
kaydle50  Female.gif kaydle50 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

WOW! I really enjoyed your editorial! But why does Harry have to die? I strongly believe Ginny would be willing to die for him. Voldemort's horcruxes were intact when he went after Harry as a baby, and Lily's willing sacrifice caused the death curse to rebound. If the majority of the horcruxes can be destroyed, then maybe Harry and Ginny's sacrifice (and perhaps Ron and Hermione) will rebound the death curse again---with one major difference--they will be alive and Voldemort vaporized.

Hello, I just had an interesting thought. Is it possible that Narcissa (who at the beginning of HBP said I WOULD DO ANYTHING) could offer herself for Draco and help defeat Lord Voldemort (after all or most of the horcruxes have been destroyed? It will be beyond my imagination how JKR is going to work all this out.


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Old January 7th, 2006, 11:43 am
Oceania  Female.gif Oceania is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

Quote:
From the editorial: Perhaps if Voldemort had killed her when he had the chance, he might have been able to succeed, but the heart of Ginny Weasley now rules the fate of all.
First, what a cryptic and beautifully stated point. Gift for words, there, gift for words. And I agree. Also, I'm really glad concerning the conclusions you came to about love---when I began reading the editorial, I was set and ready to tear it apart for calling love "stupid" and "simple". I should have known better, lol. I felt much better as I read on

Quote:
Brandon, I think your essay was good, but I highly doubt that Ginny will be the deciding factor in Voldemort's defeat. Rowling can't have emphasized friendship and family above all else for six straight books, and even ended HBP on that theme, to have the deciding and most important form of love be romantic. It doesn't make logical sense.
Ginny personifies every kind of love though...at first, she was the little sister, the friend, a part of the Weasley family, and Harry loved her as such. Eventually though, he came to realize he had romantic feelings for her. And as far as romantic love to be the deciding factor---it doesn't MATTER what kind of love it is, only that it is love! His love for Ginny WILL most likely be a deciding factor, as much as his love for Ron, Hermione, Dumbledore, Sirius, and his parents will be.

Quote:
I don't think the "power the dark lord knows not" is just love. If this misterious power was love indeed, couldn't Voldie be killed by anybody else too? or does that mean that Harry is the only person who loves? or he loves more than others, or maybe... he's in love with Voldemort!? There has to be something else. Something more extreme.
Something else? Something more extreme than love? I defy anyone to name me a force more extreme than love. Love conquers Death. Fear. Hatred. War. Disease. Evil. Selfishness. Love conquers all, a lesson that is taught to us from the time we're born. And it is not sappy, or cheesy, or simple or stupid, but only True. The whole love thing? That isn't true for just Harry Potter. That's true in real life.


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Old January 7th, 2006, 4:28 pm
DanielRadclif  Female.gif DanielRadclif is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

This is a wonderful theory. I love it (excuse the term). It all adds up, when you make Ginny Harry's world. She is, to him, the good in the world that may be lost if he, Harry, doesn't succeed. I think you're completely right - Harry will fight this battle, taking away all his past except for his present love for Ginny. Not only will he fight, but I agree that he may very well lose for Ginny, to save her and the world that he strives to see good in.
-I alo love the idea that there's a sort of Reverse Horcrux. It's exactly what you said; love is a Reverse Horcrux, of sorts. Well coined.
Brilliant. JKR ought to give you major major kudos.


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Last edited by DanielRadclif; January 7th, 2006 at 4:31 pm.
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Old January 7th, 2006, 5:32 pm
witchygurl  Female.gif witchygurl is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #31 - The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not

wouldnt it be the other way around? i think that harry would find some way to kill voldemort and save himself, for ginny and would have just given up if it wasnt an issue.


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