Severus Snape and Lucius Malfoy

[Latisha]

Originally Posted by hwyla

Oh! Lucius was DEFINITELY still at Hogwarts when Snape arrived as a firstie. And he was old enough to be a prefect (like Draco) as he was probably a 5th or 6th year.

That makes more sense than all these numbers I go cross eyed everytime I see them

Thanks

[dobbysfriend]

They just don't seem like thay would be close friends. Malfoy is too big of a snob to pal around with Snape.

[EBJ23]

I agree. I don't see them being very close friends and socializing outside of being Death Eaters.

[Evil_Voldemort]

Hi. I think they must have been friends, because they were both once Death Eaters.

[Sly_Lady]

Well, Death Eaters don't seem to be much for socializing, do they? I think Lucius is too big a snob to care about a half-blood, and since Snape is loyal to Dumbledore, in my opinion, he has to pretend to respect Lucius Malfoy, but there really isn't much there to respect, so it's an act.

[hwyla]

True - I don't see Bella as a friend of Snape's despite they're being DEs together. However, that doesn't mean the same was true for Snape and Lucius.

I tend to believe it was a rather unequal friendship based on Sirius' comment about Snape as Lucius' 'lapdog'. However, once Draco gets to Hogwarts Snape's importance in Lucius' eyes probably rose. Truthfully, I think it's really a kind of 'you scratch my back' kind of recipricocity (sp?) with Snape playing up the friendship ever since '81 because he needed to keep tabs on what the DEs were doing.

[dobbysfriend]

Originally Posted by hwyla

True - I don't see Bella as a friend of Snape's despite they're being DEs together. However, that doesn't mean the same was true for Snape and Lucius.

I tend to believe it was a rather unequal friendship based on Sirius' comment about Snape as Lucius' 'lapdog'. However, once Draco gets to Hogwarts Snape's importance in Lucius' eyes probably rose. Truthfully, I think it's really a kind of 'you scratch my back' kind of recipricocity (sp?) with Snape playing up the friendship ever since '81 because he needed to keep tabs on what the DEs were doing.

I think you have a good point here. Snape does play up their "friendship", but does he do that to further the Order of the Phoenix, or his own agenda?

[Bscorp]

well I have a question.

Did Malfoy know or did he not – that Severus Snape is a Half Blood?
IF yes- I'd say they really were "old friends." If no, then maybe not.

Would it matter to Lucius the Muggle hating DE that Snape's dad was a Muggle, or did Lucius not care because Snape (maybe) didn't like his dad anyway? Or is Lucius really just full of it anyway and all that muggle hating stuff is mostly show?

[hwyla]

Originally Posted by dobbysfriend

I think you have a good point here. Snape does play up their "friendship", but does he do that to further the Order of the Phoenix, or his own agenda?

Hmmm...my position would be that he did it to keep tabs on what 'free' DEs might be up to - for me that indicates his doing it for the Order. I just don't see how continuing his relationship with Lucius (scratch your back/you scratch mine - as "I" see it) has been much help to Snape 'personally' - as in furthering Snape's own agenda. I suppose it 'could' have in bk2 - when Draco suggested that Lucius would put forward Snape's name as Headmaster - however, I don't see any evidence that Snape has actually ever benefitted personally by his connection to Lucius.

The closest it comes ("I" think) is Snape's little 'jerk' in bk4 when Harry says Lucius was at the Graveyard - I think Snape MAY have been depending on Lucius to smooth his way back into Voldy's graces - which I think was FOR the Order, however - IF Lucius COULD smooth the way, Snape could come out of it alive. Which I'm sure Snape would personally like. Then again, Voldy may not have been all that happy with Lucius over the Diary at the time - so maybe not.

[aislin]

I think they are friends insofar as either of them have friends. What I mean is, they are friends in terms of what they can get out of each other.

[DarkDaysAhead]

They may have been friends at one point or another but I don't think they've been friends for quite some time now. Actually, I don't think, even if they were friends years ago, that it was a "normal" friendship. I think it was less of a friendship and more of a...I don't know, mentor-student kind of thing. Seems to me like Lucius would have been the type to take Snape, a quiet loner, under his wing and teach him everything he knew. I don't know if you could call that a "friendship" though as I see said move as being a dark one, motivated by selfishness and not a true desire to make a friend.

As for Narcissa's statement and Lucius's talking Snape up -- Even if we don't think their friendship was/is a real friendship, Lucius and co. wouldn't see anything wrong or different about it. I tend to think the dark side views friendship in a different light than the good side does. Instead of their friendships being pure, thery seem to be more of an I'll-scratch-your-back-if-you-scratch-mine kind of thing. I don't think they're as attached to each other as say, Harry, Ron, and Hermione are.

[WeasleyTwins888]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I was just re-reading GoF and I noticed that at the end when Harry is mentioning names of Death Eaters he saw in the graveyard he says Lucius' name and it mentions that Snape makes a face (or maybe a noise or something, I don't have the quote with me). I took this to mean that he was Lucius' friend and disliked his name being mentioned, but I guess it could be read several ways. What do you guys think?

[hwyla]

It can be read several ways - I've always thought Snape hoped to go to Lucius to find Voldy (since his mark had stopped 'burning') and was afraid that Fudge would have aurors go round up the folks Harry was naming before Snape could 'return' to Voldy. Would pretty much destroy his chances of becoming Albus' spy on Voldy.

But a very interesting theory I have heard is Snape moving inadvertly to shush Harry because he KNOWS Fudge will dislike hearing they let Lucius off on that Imperio excuse, especially since Lucius has such an influence over Fudge. And that blurting out Lucius' name will only make Fudge dig in and refuse to believe. Accusing Lucius is almost tantamount to yelling that Fudge is 'dirty' himself. And that is why Snape then endangers himself to show the Dark Mark - he's backing up both Albus and Harry there. It seems a hopeless cause - to convince Fudge that he is wrong.

Altho' one would assume that Fudge knew Snape had been Albus' spy among the DEs, we do not KNOW Fudge knew it. After all, Fudge only refers to Albus' spy in PoA when talking about the warning that the Potters were targetted - he doesn't say 'Snape' (while Albus seems to say in later books). So it IS possible that Fudge never knew Snape had been a DE or Albus' spy.

[Madeline]

I don't think we can rely too much on Narcissa's statements at Spinner's End as proof of a friendship between Snape and Lucius. At that point she was so desperate for help to save Draco she would have said just about anything to win Snape's favor.

I always thought that Snape and Lucius had a tentative acquaintance-- they weren't necessarily friends but interacted with one another enough in the past (most likely because of the Death Eater connections) that Narcissa could interpret it as friendship on some level. Once Voldemort fell at the hands of baby Harry I think they both decided that any connection to one another would hinder their chances of avoiding prosecution for being a Death Eater.

[YellowPoofBall]

I think Snape really is friends with one or both of the Malfoys, just because Draco does seem to be Snape's favorite student. But I don't think that Snape's friendship with the Malfoys is diminished if he's fighting on the good side.

The example I'm about to give is hardly a comparison, but I think it sort of parallels. I've got plenty of friends who are, well, they're not law-abiding citizens. A couple are actually really good friends. Just because they're... criminals... doesn't mean they're not good people.

I don't see Lucius as much of a good person in the same sense, because I get the impression he'd sacrifice his son just like Bella would, but I think Narcissa is a good person underneath. I can see her and Snape having an actual friendship that sort of extends to Lucius.

[irmapince]

Originally Posted by YellowPoofBall

I think Snape really is friends with one or both of the Malfoys, just because Draco does seem to be Snape's favorite student. But I don't think that Snape's friendship with the Malfoys is diminished if he's fighting on the good side.

The example I'm about to give is hardly a comparison, but I think it sort of parallels. I've got plenty of friends who are, well, they're not law-abiding citizens. A couple are actually really good friends. Just because they're... criminals... doesn't mean they're not good people.

I believe there is a real friedship between Snape and Lucius, perhaps one based more on the past (pre-first war) than the present.

When Snape is shocked to hear Harry name Lucius at the end of GoF, I've wondered if it was because Snape expected Lucius not to show up. Specifically, Fudge says Voldemort is only as strong as the amount of followers he had. What if Snape was trying to convince Lucius not to go when summonded so the less DEs who show up the weaker Voldemort will be?