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  #41  
Old February 18th, 2006, 2:42 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaryllis
Also, as a side note, it's recommended that infants weaned before 12 months of age should not receive cow's milk but should receive iron-fortified infant formula.
I think that everybody should know that you should not give cow milk to a baby.

And yes breastfeeding is healthy. I won't deny that.

Years ago on holiday there was a mother at the beach who breastfed her at least 3 year old son. For me the mother and also the child were mentally disturbed. It seemed that they were not able to let go eachother.


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  #42  
Old February 18th, 2006, 2:46 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

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Originally Posted by magic1013
Well, I think I answered that in my original reply.. To give mothers a break. Fathers, babysitters, etc can't feed the baby by the breast. It's best to have the child used to bottled breast milk as well in the occasion mum isn't there.
But if I understood your post correctly, you were suggesting that a mother out shopping with her baby, should use a bottle of expressed milk rather than breastfeed in public. Expressing milk is useful when you have to leave your baby, but shouldn't be done because other people object to breastfeeding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfbreedlover
Like genitals, they are areas which are normally kept private. Women don't expose breasts in public. I'm sorry, this is not logical. This is a purely emotional, gut feeling that I am uncomfortable with women breastfeeding in public. It just doesn't seem proper or decent. It is something which should be done privately.
You see a lot more breast on any catwalk than you see when a mother feeds her child. Do fashion shows make you uncomfortable, or is it OK to show a bit of flesh for entertainment purposes but not to nourish a baby?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertha Blotts
I would want to, but I will probably go back to work before my child is 6 months old, so that will make things more difficult. I won't beat myself up if it turns out breast feeding isn't practical for me at that point.
May I suggest that you continue morning and evening feeds, but use a bottle during the day after you return to work. Breastfeeding an older baby isn't 24/7. There is no doubt that the first 6 months are the most important for breastfeeding, but most kids will gradually reduce the number of feeds after that. My daughter weened herself as she gradually lost interest. My son needed some persuasion to stop daytime feeding, but for a long time he just fed morning and evening and we were both very happy with it. He lost interest naturally just before his second birthday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_22
Extended period of breast feeding often makes the child lactose intolerant in later life.
It also creates problems for the woman in question. Leading to various breast problems in later life.
Apart fom physical problems a child can get addicted to the mothers breast if breast fed for too long. This can lead to awkward situations later on when the child grows up. At 12, 13 and sometimes even 15 the child remains addicted to the mothers breast which is very problematic.
Can you provide documentation for any of this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Gatherer
I think it is advisable for a woman not to breastfeed too blatantly and if, for example, she is in a busy market place she should not stand in the middle and breastfeed, but move to the side and out of the way.
I think we all do this anyway. I've never seen anyone standing in the middle of a busy place to feed. A seat in a secluded place is much nicer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Gatherer
And if the child is breastfed for a long amount of time, this can cause psychological problems in the later life for the child, such as wanting to suckle a partners nipples, as a substitute for their mother's.
Can it? How long is "a long amount of time"?


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  #43  
Old February 18th, 2006, 3:23 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Can I also ask a question of those who say that breastmilk has no nutritional value after a certain age? Would you then say that there is no point giving cow's milk to children at all, and that it is not nutritious? If cow's milk can give vitamins, calcium etc to children, surely it follows that no matter what the age, milk specifically tailored for humans must have at least as much nutritious value?


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  #44  
Old February 18th, 2006, 3:28 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murtlap
Can I also ask a question of those who say that breastmilk has no nutritional value after a certain age? Would you then say that there is no point giving cow's milk to children at all, and that it is not nutritious? If cow's milk can give vitamins, calcium etc to children, surely it follows that no matter what the age, milk specifically tailored for humans must have at least as much nutritious value?
I think the comment is poorly worded. It is not that breast milk doesn't continue to have nutritional value it is just that it is no longer necessary to get the nutriants from breast milk. At two a childs diet is primarly food items and milk has become a beverage not a nutritional necessity.


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  #45  
Old February 18th, 2006, 3:35 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by The other Jo
I think the comment is poorly worded. It is not that breast milk doesn't continue to have nutritional value it is just that it is no longer necessary to get the nutriants from breast milk. At two a childs diet is primarly food items and milk has become a beverage not a nutritional necessity.
But many people regard cow's milk as a nutritional necessity for their children don't they? It's an odd thing that we regard human breastmilk for older children as something obscene and unnecessary, but we think that milk made by a cow for a calf is a natural and healthy thing for our children to drink instead.


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  #46  
Old February 18th, 2006, 8:38 pm
The_Gatherer  Male.gif The_Gatherer is offline
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by anabel
I think we all do this anyway. I've never seen anyone standing in the middle of a busy place to feed. A seat in a secluded place is much nicer.
Exactly; so, providing that a woman does not breastfeed in the middle of busy place, it is perfectly alright for a woman to breastfeed her child in public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anabel
Can it? How long is "a long amount of time"?
I beleive it can, and in some cases it certainly does. But not all cases are the same. A long amount of time, to me, is anytime seriously over when it has not become a necessity. And if people did not see it as a necessity the child would probably, if ever breastfed, ween off much easier as it was probably not breastfed as much as a child who was solely breastfed.

However I do admit I am ignorant in such matters, and would gladly accept criticism.


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  #47  
Old February 18th, 2006, 9:17 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murtlap
But many people regard cow's milk as a nutritional necessity for their children don't they? It's an odd thing that we regard human breastmilk for older children as something obscene and unnecessary, but we think that milk made by a cow for a calf is a natural and healthy thing for our children to drink instead.
I think the point is that there comes a point that you are recieving no added benifit from breast milk. That calls into question to some people why are you still breast feeding. I have breast fed all my children and it was a bonding time but there is a point where you have to start letting go and let your children become independent. I think what people are questioning is why some moms choose not to let their kids make this important step. I will admit people breast feeding beyond two years old is strange to me as I can't find any logical benifit for it. At that point there are sooo many other ways to get nutriants and so many fun ways to bond with the child such as playing and reading books.


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  #48  
Old February 18th, 2006, 9:35 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

This is an interesting discussion because the issue varies according to what you consider to be extended breastfeeding. There is a huge difference between breastfeeding a two year old and breastfeeding a 5 year old. I personally feel that there should be very special reasons for continuing past 3 years, such as milk allergies, but that it is normal, natural and healthy to breastfeed for 2 years. The idea that breastmilk is unnecessary once the child has teeth or has started solids is outdated, yet still persistant.

How long you breastfeed is a personal choice, between you and your child, and is nobody else's business unless you go to the extreme of breastfeeding a 5 year old, which I don't think is healthy and thankfully most mums don't do it. I know of a case of twins where one was weaned several months before the other. My own kids lost interest at 13 months and 2 years, and that was ok, although I would have liked to continue a bit longer with the first one.

It would be helpful if all posters specified which age they considered to be too old for breastfeeding, because it's confusing when one person is talking about 6 months and another 6 years.


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  #49  
Old February 18th, 2006, 10:04 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfbreedlover
Like genitals, they are areas which are normally kept private. Women don't expose breasts in public. I'm sorry, this is not logical. This is a purely emotional, gut feeling that I am uncomfortable with women breastfeeding in public. It just doesn't seem proper or decent. It is something which should be done privately.
What about women like my cousin who keep a blanket covering themselves so you can't see anything? When she brestfeeds you can only see that she's got a blanket on part of her upper body. You can't even see her son at all.
I used to feel uncomfortable about women breastfeeding in public, but after being around my cousin while she did it; it doesn't bother me. Not so long as the woman is covered up. That would be the only reason to want someone not to breastfeed out in the open. And really, why would a woman want to expose herself while out in public like that? I sure as heck wouldn't want to.


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  #50  
Old February 18th, 2006, 11:00 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child?
I am surely going to breast feed my children.
2. Do you think itís fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time?
No, going past a certain time is difficult. It's already difficult enough, if you're a working mother to breast feed all the time, so why make it last longer?
3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
6 months was when my brother (who is 7) was weaned. It's not difficult if you present the child with a mixture of breast and bottle.
4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think itís more of a comfort thing?
The older children don't need it. Their digestive tracks are more developed, therefore, they don't necessarily need the crucial elements of a mother's milk.
5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
Not openly, but places should present mothers with feeding rooms, so they can do it in an almost private session.
6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets?
Not only is that disgusting an unsanitary, it's an insult to the mother. Where I live in America none of the restaurants have feeding rooms. Only certain stores in the mall do, and I've seen them at a chili festival I used to go to.


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  #51  
Old February 19th, 2006, 12:45 am
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
You see a lot more breast on any catwalk than you see when a mother feeds her child. Do fashion shows make you uncomfortable, or is it OK to show a bit of flesh for entertainment purposes but not to nourish a baby?
Quote:
Women expose breasts in public all the time, on television, in magazines - they can be ridiculously hard to get away from in a sexual context.
But to your main point - why should nursing mothers have to go to lengths to feed in private just to satisfy what you admit is an illogical response on your part - surely the onus lies on you to change your way of thinking?
Yes, in movies and entertainment women expose breasts. Yet streaking is illegal, at least it is where I live. Why do you suppose that is?

Quote:
What about women like my cousin who keep a blanket covering themselves so you can't see anything? When she brestfeeds you can only see that she's got a blanket on part of her upper body. You can't even see her son at all.
I used to feel uncomfortable about women breastfeeding in public, but after being around my cousin while she did it; it doesn't bother me. Not so long as the woman is covered up. That would be the only reason to want someone not to breastfeed out in the open. And really, why would a woman want to expose herself while out in public like that? I sure as heck wouldn't want to.
I suppose that wouldn't be too bad, if it were COMPLETELY covered like that. The woman I saw doing it "discreetly" still had the very tip of her nipple sticking out.


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  #52  
Old February 19th, 2006, 7:09 am
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfbreedlover
Like genitals, they are areas which are normally kept private. Women don't expose breasts in public. I'm sorry, this is not logical. This is a purely emotional, gut feeling that I am uncomfortable with women breastfeeding in public. It just doesn't seem proper or decent. It is something which should be done privately.
sounds like the problem is with the person viewing, certainly not the nursing mother and I don't ever hear any babies complaining about being fed in public! I used to have to walk around with my daughter attatched to the breast way too often. And I did it where ever I went. Anyone looking at us just thought that I was cuddling my baby! There are special nursing tops that some women use and that work well, others choose not to use them.

The next time you are out, why don't you take your lunch, dinner, snack, whatever meal it is and go sit on a toilet to eat it....After all, eating is a natural part of the function of the body...and the bathroom is the final step in digesting it....

As was stated breasts are given to woman for the sole purpose of feeding our offspring. It is man that has turned them into something more than that...not that many woman are complaining mind you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anabel
This is an interesting discussion because the issue varies according to what you consider to be extended breastfeeding. There is a huge difference between breastfeeding a two year old and breastfeeding a 5 year old. I personally feel that there should be very special reasons for continuing past 3 years, such as milk allergies, but that it is normal, natural and healthy to breastfeed for 2 years. The idea that breastmilk is unnecessary once the child has teeth or has started solids is outdated, yet still persistant.

How long you breastfeed is a personal choice, between you and your child, and is nobody else's business unless you go to the extreme of breastfeeding a 5 year old, which I don't think is healthy and thankfully most mums don't do it. I know of a case of twins where one was weaned several months before the other. My own kids lost interest at 13 months and 2 years, and that was ok, although I would have liked to continue a bit longer with the first one.

It would be helpful if all posters specified which age they considered to be too old for breastfeeding, because it's confusing when one person is talking about 6 months and another 6 years.
I would agree with most of this...I must say that usually the duration of breast feeding has to do with culture in most cases. It is just more readily accepted in different parts of the world. As to taking it further and breastfeeding an older child in modern day public...well there isn't a need for that. An infant needs to be fed ever few hours and I don't think that a mother should be home bound to accomplish this. But an older child, say over 2, really doesn't need to be fed the breast ever few hours and can do just fine with solid foods and drinks of other natures without needing to nurse in public. Just my thoughts on the matter.


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  #53  
Old February 19th, 2006, 7:46 am
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

even for people who dislike seeing breastfeeding in public, you'd think they'd rather see that than have to listen to a screaming, crying baby. there's evidence that we are actually born with an aversion to hearing others cry** (based on the fact that infants will start crying if they hear crying)- but we certainly aren't born with an aversion to public breastfeeding. funny how things society imposes on us as "decent" or "indecent" can grow to overpower even our natural instincts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by anabel
It would be helpful if all posters specified which age they considered to be too old for breastfeeding, because it's confusing when one person is talking about 6 months and another 6 years.
well, it depends on the child of course - but i would say about 2 at the oldest in most cases (not that i'm an expert). now, i sure as heck wouldn't breastfeed my own kids until they were 2 years old, but more power to mom's who do because they're probably giving their kids some extra immunity or something.

i don't think kids old enough to eat solids should be breastfed in public, though. not because there's anything wrong with it, but because some people are bothered by it and i don't think a kid who's eating solids really needs breast milk right that second - surley it can wait 'till they get home.

**Early Childhood Development: A Multi-Cultural Perspective, by Jeffrey-Trawick Smith.


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  #54  
Old February 19th, 2006, 10:51 am
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfbreedlover
I suppose that wouldn't be too bad, if it were COMPLETELY covered like that. The woman I saw doing it "discreetly" still had the very tip of her nipple sticking out.
You must have been looking very closely, then! People who stare at a breastfeeding woman as if she's some kind of strange new animal on display are even ruder (is that a word?) than staring at an adult while they are eating their dinner. Also, if she was breastfeeding, wasn't her nipple covered by the baby's mouth?

By the way, in my first post here, I refered to a mom who still breastfed her 3 year-old. I didn't find anything wrong with the age of the child, only with the behavior of said child - and her mom! We were at an elementary school where 6, 8, and 10 year-olds were walking by us in a hallway. For the toddler to just yank up mom's shirt - and for mom not to gently say "not now, honey" or at least try to cover up was a bit unsettling -- even for a breastfeeding supporter like me!

As for age limits -- I agree that it should be between mother and child, to a certain point. Once the child enters school, actual breastfeeding should probably have given way to hugs and cuddles.


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  #55  
Old February 19th, 2006, 11:39 am
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfbreedlover
Yes, in movies and entertainment women expose breasts. Yet streaking is illegal, at least it is where I live. Why do you suppose that is?



I suppose that wouldn't be too bad, if it were COMPLETELY covered like that. The woman I saw doing it "discreetly" still had the very tip of her nipple sticking out.

Well again I really can't see any correlation between streaking and breastfeeding - women breastfeeding aren't trying to deliberately shock or show off their body, they are only concerned with feeding their baby.

As for this 'tip of the nipple' sticking out, I must agree with Piky, you must have been looking pretty closely to see that, and if you're so offended by the whole thing, why weren't you simply looking away? When a baby is feeding, the entire area of the nipple is in the baby's mouth, and would only be exposed if the baby suddenly pulled away, and even then you would have to be staring right at the woman feeding to see anything.


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  #56  
Old February 19th, 2006, 12:51 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

I don't see why it would be offensive even if the entire nipple were exposed to be honest - I mean, it's common in British newspapers for topless women to adorn inside pages, and surely that's worse?

As to the nutrient question, The Other Jo (does that make me the other other Jo?) answered it well. In this country, a seven year old has many other means of getting nutrients into their body - they do not need to come from breast milk. Sure, milk is a good source of calcium but why breast milk when cow's milk is cheap and easily available in the UK? Breast feeding a seven year old is just setting up huge psychological problems in future life, I think.

There was, if you pardon me for saying it, an element of smugness in the attitude of the woman who breast fed her seven year old and was going to let her ten year old breastfeed for a birthday treat. It was a sort of 'look at me, see what an earth mother I am.. I am way beyond your understanding' type of attitude. I just hope her kids see it that way too when they hit puberty.


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  #57  
Old February 19th, 2006, 1:05 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMoose
In this country, a seven year old has many other means of getting nutrients into their body - they do not need to come from breast milk. Sure, milk is a good source of calcium but why breast milk when cow's milk is cheap and easily available in the UK? Breast feeding a seven year old is just setting up huge psychological problems in future life, I think.
I'm not sure, but can antibodies be transferred from the mum to the child through breast milk? If I'm not mistaken they can, and if so, then it's more than just nutrients (not that I don't find the idea of breast-feeding a seven year old rather peculiar).


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  #58  
Old February 19th, 2006, 1:05 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

It is certainly not appropriate to let a 10 year old breastfeed for a "treat", because it is important to teach children which areas of the body are private, to help them know how to react to inappropriate touching and abuse. I tell my kids that some areas are private, that we don't touch people there, and that if someone was to touch them there they should tell me and I promise not to be cross with them.

But I did let my 4 year old have a taste of expressed breastmilk (ie from a cup, not from the breast) when I was feeding the baby, just to satisfy her curiosity. She said "yuck!" and didn't ask again.

I'm not defending breastfeeding seven year olds, but several posters have mentioned psychological damage, and I wonder if there is any documentation for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pemidato
I'm not sure, but can antibodies be transferred from the mum to the child through breast milk? If I'm not mistaken they can, and if so, then it's more than just nutrients (not that I don't find the idea of breast-feeding a seven year old rather peculiar).
Yes, breastmilk contains antibodies from the mother, helping to pass on immunity to diseases the mother has had, although I'm not sure if this is as useful to an older child as it is to a newborn. What is interesting though, is that breastmilk is proven (and there is a word that has not been used much in this debate) to reduce allergic reactions to other food. If you introduce wheat, peanuts, etc while still breastfeeding, the child is less likely to develop an allergy to that food. So for children who are already allergic or who are genetically disposed to allergy, breastfeeding should continue for at least the first year, and preferably longer.


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  #59  
Old February 19th, 2006, 1:18 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMoose
IAs to the nutrient question, The Other Jo (does that make me the other other Jo?) answered it well. In this country, a seven year old has many other means of getting nutrients into their body - they do not need to come from breast milk. Sure, milk is a good source of calcium but why breast milk when cow's milk is cheap and easily available in the UK? Breast feeding a seven year old is just setting up huge psychological problems in future life, I think.

Yes, but some people are against the idea of cow's milk entirely, either because it's meant for cows and not humans, or because of allergies, or because of animal welfare concerns. I've read many articles about the possible health problems caused by a milk intended for a cow and consumed by a human.

I would have to say that in that circumstance I'd rather give a child beyond the age of 3 or 4yrs expressed breastmilk than give a breastfeed, but my point was that there is no good reason for saying that breastmilk has no benefit past a certain age. By that reasoning there is no reason to give milk at all, but health boards across the world urge us to give our kids cows milk to keep them healthy.

I'm undecided on the issue of breastfeeding past the age of 3 or 4 yrs, but I accept that, as shown by the wide range of replies here, it's an extremely subjective thing, so I wouldn't dream of saying that someone shouldn't feed past a certain age. I too would be very interested to know if anyone has any evidence of extended breastfeeding causing psychological damage though, it's not something I've ever seen any evidence of myself.


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Old February 19th, 2006, 4:47 pm
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Re: U - Breastfeeding

1. Do you/would you breastfeed your child? I probably wouldn't, but that's more because I plan on having a job before I have a child. However, I do give kudos to all of those mommies out there who do breastfeed properly.

2. Do you think itís fair to the mother to breastfeed for an extended period of time? Actually, many studies have concluded that as large-bodied mammals, breastfeeding would contribute best to a child's diet as the main source of nutrition for at least 2.5 years and as long as 6 years. However, I realize that most western countries see breasts as objects of lust rather than as body parts meant for the feeding of infants. So, with that in mind, I'd say that it wouldn't really bother me to see or know a woman who breastfeeding her 2 year old. Because of our culture however, I would probably be more concerned - but not the point of calling the mother mean or cruel names or accusing her of being a bad mther - to see a mother breastfeeding her 4 year old.

3. When do you think is the right time to wean a child off the breast?
If I could (or if I end up breastfeeding), I'd probably start weaning around 1.

4. Do you think that older children actually need the breast milk, or do you think itís more of a comfort thing? No, breastmilk actually does help developing infants into childhood.

5a. Do you think mothers should be allowed to breastfeed in public?
Most definately. Breastfeeding is a natural, and beautiful thing. The culture we live in says it's bad - I don't.

5b. If you answered no to question 5a, can you give your reasons why it shouldnít be allowed?

5c. If you answered yes to question 5a, why do you think others donít agree with it? They see breasts as objects of lust. I think I said that in one of my above answers.

6. What do you think of shops/restaurants that have no feeding room and instead tell the mother to feed the child in the ladies toilets? I understand it. I just don't like it.


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"I am having that kind of day where if the winds blow in a different direction, I am reduced to a gelatinous mass of tear-soaked silly-putty, caterwauling in a heap until someone spoon-feeds me chocolate and tells me I'm pretty."

...anyone got any M&Ms?
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