Breastfeeding

[machiavelle]

I have spent the last 20+ years as a maternal/child nurse. I help mother's wrestle with the breast/bottle issue on a daily basis. There was a time not too long ago when it became mandatory that we have mothers breastfeed as part of the WIC program for those who could not afford the added expense of bottles,nipples and formula. WIC stand for Women Infant and Children and in NY a woman can apply for it to assist with the additional cost of feeding your baby, it now includes other supplies and is based on income.

So if a mother chooses not to breastfeed, she can receive assistance, and she can also receive assistance if she is breastfeeding. It is important that we help women with the expense of bearing and feeding their children no matter which method they choose.

Some women simply cannot breasfeed for a variety of reasons. They may have many children, need to work, or just wish to give the bottle. The experience of becoming a mother and bonding with your child should be a happy one. Guilt is a common feeling among new moms. You want to do everything right. Moms should be encouraged, not critisized for their individal decisions. If breast works for you, fab. If bottle works for you, fab. What I look for is the gleam in the mother's eye as she is looking down at her infant whichever way she is feeding. That's what makes the true bond.

[Freaky]

Originally Posted by CathyWeasly

Thanks Freaky! I breast fed my other four - mind you number four only got four months worth - and I have to say that I loved it. So I really miss not being able to breastfeed my baby this time. But I know that i'm doing what is best for him.

Wow...five (?) children! I would certainly say that you've done all you possibly could (and I went back and found your post explaining about stopping feeding the last baby).

Although I personally didn't love breast feeding my children it was what I automatically wanted to do, felt I should be doing. There was a first time mother in the hospital at the same time that I had my second child and she wasn't even prepared to give breast feeding a try, and I felt truly sad for her child. And for her.

Originally Posted by monster_mom

What a wonderful post Freaky - you said exactly what I've always felt but used much better words! Thanks!!!!!

Thank you for your comment. I didn't want to tread on anyone's toes...and it's quite difficult not to sometimes!

I can't find the post where it replies to the post "not meaning to imply indecent exposure". I have posted on here before where I've said that there is a way to feed your child without exposing your entire breast.

As adults we DO see the breast as a sexual thing, even our own (I'm sure most would agree) and so we do have to give a certain amount of consideration to those around us.

People who have never had children, or certainly someone from an older generation would not want to see someone's else's entire breast...I don't want to see someone else's entire breast. I understand that they are simply feeding their child, but they can do it discreetly. I didn't show my breasts to all and sundry, and therefore I don't see why others feel they have to.

Accidental exposure is one thing, but when you're sitting in a park, or...going up for communion at church (and this has happened in my church) the last thing you want to be faced with is an eyeful of breast.

[beth83]

Originally Posted by mexicant

That is amazing. Your kid is a genius. *is ashamed her two-year-old can only count to ten and recite the alphabet song*

i wouldn't be ashamed. my 2 year old knows about 15 words and i was actually getting quite worried. i was still on my whole, 'he wouldn't breastfeed i've failed the poor little mite before he's even started' kick.

we have a speech therapist friend who said that it's perfectly normal for a child that age.

i'm impressed he's(?) got to 10 ours gets stuck at 6.

[mexicant]

Well, I know my son is doing well because my mother-in-law is a Speech therapist and so is her sister. My son has a decent amount of words (getting to be around 200 now, I think), but I still feel like I'm behind teaching him I guess.

I can honestly say I don't like the idea of my breasts as something sexual. They give me nothing but trouble and I keep them very covered up. That can be difficult sometimes, but I do it nonetheless. Also, I agree that women who breastfeed by exposing themselves completely are doing so without regard to anyone or anything else. If I breastfeed in public, I am not about to pull out my entire breast. My own sense of modesty prohibits that.
What I have a problem with is people who realize a woman is breastfeeding, even when it is discreetly, and throw a fit over it.

[Freaky]

Originally Posted by mexicant

What I have a problem with is people who realize a woman is breastfeeding, even when it is discreetly, and throw a fit over it.

I completely agree with this. At the end of the day the mother has done her bit, and the child needs feeding.

[anabel]

Originally Posted by CelestLBeing

Why should the child go hungry. I often expressed milk and took it with me in bottles. My children never went hungry. And don't even start with the sterilizing thing. Dishwashers sterilize just fine.

But dishwashers are loads more expensive that sterilising equipment! We didn't have one when my first child was a baby. I just don't see why a discreetly feeding mother and child should be penalized (expressing and bottlefeeding is loads more inconvenient and expensive than breastfeeding), because of misplaced prudishness. Also, freezing and reheating breastmilk destroys some of the nutrients in it. It's still loads better than formula, but not as good as fresh breastmilk.

Originally Posted by cityxstargazers

Eventually the mother needs to stop anyway, and all the immunity she gave the baby becomes moot, and then the baby has to develop its own antibodies.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but
the baby is already developing its own antibodies during breastfeeding. It's not a process that only begins once breastfeeding stops. And breastfeeding really does provide lasting benefits to a child's immune system - this is supported by huge amounts of research. Children who were breastfed are and remain statistically healthier than their bottlefed peers. For example they are less likely to develop asthma, allergies, diabetes or obesity, long after breastfeeding has finished.

I'm just saying, the baby isn't going to have a compromised immune system if a mother never breast feeds.

Actually, all evidence point to the fact that not breastfeeding does compromise the immune system. Babies are designed to drink breastmilk, not formula.

Originally Posted by cityxstargazers

Well, a child doesn't necessarily have to go hungry because of uncomfortable adults, like I said, there are bottles. They do sound like a hassle, and I trust people's word that they are, but then again, it would be easier for you to change your baby in the middle of a resurant than to find the changing room and wait if its occupied, and that's not acceptable (I would hope :P)!

Would you go to the toilet in the middle of a restaurant? Would you eat your dinner in the toilet? Of course we don't change nappies on restaurant tables, but breastfeeding is different!

Originally Posted by cityxstargazers

As you may have guessed, I don't really spend time around babies, so no, I didn't know that they are so picky. Although I still wouldn't encourage breast-feeding in public (just my own sensibilities), you have made me think differently about if it should be legal or not.

Hey, that's what we are here for! There are a couple of "missing generations" who were bottlefed and have no experience of breastfeeding, so a lot of people still know very little about it. It's proven that women who have been "exposed" to breastfeeding, ie friends or family members did it, are much more likely to try breastfeeding their own kids, and keep it up for longer - perhaps because they have a support network to give help and advice, perhaps because they've seen just how normal, natural and wonderful it is!

[thedragonfly]

Originally Posted by anabel

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but the baby is already developing its own antibodies during breastfeeding. It's not a process that only begins once breastfeeding stops.

And breastfeeding really does provide lasting benefits to a child's immune system - this is supported by huge amounts of research. Children who were breastfed are and remain statistically healthier than their bottlefed peers. For example they are less likely to develop asthma, allergies, diabetes or obesity, long after breastfeeding has finished. Actually, all evidence point to the fact that not breastfeeding does compromise the immune system. Babies are designed to drink breastmilk, not formula.

Hey, that's what we are here for! There are a couple of "missing generations" who were bottlefed and have no experience of breastfeeding, so a lot of people still know very little about it.

Oh, I know the baby is developing its own anti-bodies already, but that's kind of my point. My point is the baby's whole immune system doesn't come from the breast milk anyway. At least, theoretically, what I've learned in my two years of Biology, but I know science is constantly changing, and I am not aware of these studies, but it would be awesome if you could link me to some! Because from what I learned, breast milk only has antibodies in them, so I'm not sure how that relates to allergys, as allergys are caused by allergens and not viruses or bacteria. *Mind boggles*

Actually, I'm not even sure if I was breast-fed, now that I think about it. I might have been. O.o I know I was definitely bottle-fed at some point, as I have an old baby bottle.

[anabel]

http://www.breastfeeding.com/all_abo...allergies.html

Your child will have fewer Allergies

Exclusively breastfed babies are less likely to have food allergies and related problems such as diarrhea, vomiting, eczema, gastrointenstinal infections and respiratory infections. Here we'll give a quick overview, and then give references to some of the numerous studies on the subject.



Breastfeeding and Allergies: an Overview

Food allergies are thought to begin when foreign proteins enter the bloodstream through the walls of the baby's intestines, causing sometimes mild, and sometimes life-threatening reactions. Breastmilk has several different immunoglobulins that help to protect against allergies. The most abundant immunoglobulin, IgA, binds to the foreign proteins, preventing them from passing through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream and causing allergic reactions. By the time the baby is 6 to 9 months old, s/he has begun to produce IgA on her own, but until this time breastmilk is her only source of this wondrous substance.

In addition, during the entire time the child is breastfed she is being passed antibodies to pathogens in her mother's milk. These are only a few of the many processes that help protect a breastfed baby from allergies. Thorough information can be found in many excellent books on the topic.

http://www.breastfeeding.com/all_abo...t_disease.html

Human milk apparently actively influences the immune system of your child by several different mechanisms. Some features of this improved immune response for children who have been breastfed for a prolonged period may last for a life time. We don't know all of the reasons breastmilk provides this protection, but we can measure the results.

Cardiopulmonary (Heart Related)
Infants fed by bottle are at increased risk (during feeding) of cardiopulmonary disturbances, including prolonged airway closure and obstructed respiratory breaths due to repeated swallowing.
Source: Koenig JS, Davies AM, Thach BT. Coordination of breathing, sucking and swallowing during bottle feedings in human infants. J Appl Physiol 69: 1623-1629, 1990.

Pre-term infants have shown decreased oxygen saturation accompanied by apnea (absent airflow for >20 sec). Term infants can experience oxygen saturation below 90% when bottlefeeding. Nine of 50 healthy-term infants in one study experienced bradycardia during bottlefeeding. Six of these episodes were preceded by apnea, three showed hypopnea (marked reduction in ventilation) and one had central apnea (no respiratory efforts)
Source: Matthew O. Breathing patterns of pre-term infants during bottlefeeding: role of milk flow. J Pediatr 119:960-965, 1991.
Matthew O, Clark ML, Ponske MH. Apnea, bradycardia, and cyanosis during oral feeding in term neonates. J Pediatr 106:857, 1985.

Crohn's Disease
In this study, lack of breastfeeding was a risk factor associated with later development of Crohn's disease.
Source: Koletzko, S., "Role of Infant Feeding Practices in Development of Crohn's Disease in Childhood". Br Med J, 1989

Hodgkin's Disease
There is a statistically significant protective effect against Hodgkin's disease among children who are breastfed at least eight months compared with children who were breastfed no more than two months.
Source: Schwartzbaum, J. "An Exploratory Study of Environmental and Medical Factors Potentially Related to Childhood Cancer." Medical & Pediatric Oncology, 1991; 19 (2):115-21.

Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis (JRA)
Preliminary data from researchers at the University of North Carolina and Duke University comparing 54 children with JRA and a control group without JRA of similar age and race indicates that children who were breastfed were only 40% as likely to develop JRA.
Source: "Mother's Milk: An Ounce of Prevention?" Arthritis Today May-June 1994

Diabetes Mellitus
Children who developed IDDM in New South Wales, Australia were matched with healthy children (ratio 1:2) of the same sex and age for comparison. Those who were exclusively breastfed during their first three months of life had a 34% lower risk of developing diabetes than those who were not breastfed. Children given cow's milk-based formula in their first three months were 52% more likely to develop IDDM than those not given cow's milk formula
Sources: Diabetes Care 1994;17:1381-1389, 1488-1490.
Borch-Johnson, K., et al., Relation between breastfeeding and incidence of insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. Lancet 1984; 2(8411).
Mayer EJ, et al. Reduced risk of insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus among breastfed children. Diabetes 37:1625-1632, 1988 [Formula feeding accounts for as much as 26% of insulin depended diabetes mellitis in children.]

I think the fact that a child does not start to produce their own immunoglobulin until they are 6-9 months, is a clear indicator that we are evolved to be breastfed at least that long.

[thedragonfly]

Thanks anabel, that was a good read, . The IgA stuff makes sense to me , I just had to see it in biology terms.

And I agree that it's the natural thing to breastfeed, I guess I just personally feel uncomfortable about doing/seeing it in public (oh, god, I'm a prude!), and I wasn't aware of how much prep work went into the bottle. I didn't realize the bottle needed to be sterilized, and the milk had to be warm to drink. I had thought it was a lot simpler, and that if a mother could breastfeed in private, but bottlefeed in public, the child would still get the antibodies from the few times a day that the mother breastfed in private.

[anabel]

Originally Posted by cityxstargazers

Actually, I'm not even sure if I was breast-fed, now that I think about it. I might have been. O.o I know I was definitely bottle-fed at some point, as I have an old baby bottle.

Most of us were bottlefed, because in the mid 20th century doctors and the formula milk industry persuaded our mothers/grandmothers that it was the modern, hygienic way to give a child everything it needs! Breastfeeding was seen as something hippies and earth mothers did. I think it also dates back to the days when wealthy women paid wet nurses to feed their children - breastfeeding just wasn't posh!

But now we know better. The only problem is that a huge amount of knowledge and experience that used to be passed from mother to daughter has been lost. New mums used to be surrounded by people who had breastfed their own kids. Now the chances are your own mother will anxiously suggest that you give supplementary formula "to make sure he's getting enough"! But supplementary formula means the baby demands less breastmilk, and supply adjusts to suit demand, so after a while the mother "doesn't have enough milk" and gives up breastfeeding completely. Without the network of breastfeeding mothers, aunts, sisters and neighbours, plus the neighbourhood midwife, a breastfeeding mum is much more likely to encounter problems she isn't equipped to solve. But things are improving, and will continue to improve!

[Kimagine]

My boys are 6 and 4, and their sister just turned one, and I plan on nursing her as long as she and I both feel comfortable with it. Because, when they were babies, my boys could clearly communicate what they wanted when they needed to nurse -- they called it B-juice -- which was shortened from Boobie-juice. Couldn't tell you how that all started, but it made it easier when they were 3 and one and the older one would say LOUDLY, "Mommy, Nicholas needs B-juice!!". Now the four-year-old has christened it "Mommy Milk". I much prefer the other when we are somewhere where there are bunch of people and they give me that look that screams, "just give the kid a sippy cup!" Honestly...

We were at Disney World, and I was pleased that the Magic Kingdom, EPCOT center and Animal Kingdom all have Baby Care Centers with private rooms -- air conditioned, with water and rocking chairs -- BLISS! -- where nursing mothers could feed their little ones. It was sad that nearly every time I used one, I was the only woman there -- I guess everyone else just made do wherever they could find a peaceful spot, or lugged bottles around the park, or did without. The thing is, the Baby Care Centers are sponsored by a formula company, and they have formula and bottle warmers and microwaves available, too...

[gottriplets]

Originally Posted by Kimagine

We were at Disney World, and I was pleased that the Magic Kingdom, EPCOT center and Animal Kingdom all have Baby Care Centers with private rooms -- air conditioned, with water and rocking chairs -- BLISS! -- where nursing mothers could feed their little ones. It was sad that nearly every time I used one, I was the only woman there -- I guess everyone else just made do wherever they could find a peaceful spot, or lugged bottles around the park, or did without. The thing is, the Baby Care Centers are sponsored by a formula company, and they have formula and bottle warmers and microwaves available, too...

Universal Studios' theme parks have the same type facilities. Wonderful for breastfeeding mothers. Also FYI...These family rooms can also be used for child swapping too. For instance, we have triplets and a lot of rides only allow 2 riders on a ride and a lot of rides have height restrictions. So 1 adult and 1 child can ride, then you go to the swap area and exchange your child for another and so on until everyone gets a ride. Usually when you are doing the whole swap thing you don't have to wait in the line again on children 2 & 3. I hope I made this make sense.

Originally Posted by Kimagine

Now the four-year-old has christened it "Mommy Milk".

I know this is going to be off topic, but seeing "Mommy Milk" reminds me of something...when my son (who is now 18) was a little fellow, he saw my package of sanitary napkins (pads) beside the toilet and asked what they were. I was speechless..how in the world was I going to explain this to a 2 or 3 year old? An answer finally came to me...I told him they were "Mommy Diapers". Satisfied him and he never asked about them again. Maybe we need to start a thread about this topic...How do you explain to your little one about pads/tampons and what they are used for?

[CathyWeasley]

Originally Posted by Gottriplets

Maybe we need to start a thread about this topic...How do you explain to your little one about pads/tampons and what they are used for?

That sounds like a good idea - perhaps extend it to all the awkward questions children ask?

[Ambriehl]

Originally Posted by cityxstargazers

Thanks anabel, that was a good read, . The IgA stuff makes sense to me , I just had to see it in biology terms.

And I agree that it's the natural thing to breastfeed, I guess I just personally feel uncomfortable about doing/seeing it in public (oh, god, I'm a prude!), and I wasn't aware of how much prep work went into the bottle. I didn't realize the bottle needed to be sterilized, and the milk had to be warm to drink. I had thought it was a lot simpler, and that if a mother could breastfeed in private, but bottlefeed in public, the child would still get the antibodies from the few times a day that the mother breastfed in private.

I wanted to respond to your earlier post about the allergies-many babies are actually allergic, or have trouble digesting, baby formula. Many mothers don't find this out until they have a baby that has been screaming, or spitting up all the time, for a couple of months. This happened to a woman in my stepmother's church. The found undigested curds of formula (milk byproduct) in her tummy, etc. that she couldn't digest. One of the reasons that babies have less food allergies if they breastfeed is because they were designed to do it. They were not designed to drink whey, or cows milk byproduct, which is in formula-or soy, which is in the other kind of formula. This is also one of the reasons why babies don't start solids until 4-6 months old, and rice cereal is commonly the first suggested solid food-it has been proven to be one of the foods that people are "least" allergic to.

Lots of babies have problems digesting milk, because milk was meant for baby cows, not humans. It is their breastmilk, meant for THEIR species. A lot of times it causes problems, and the baby is in pain. The baby then has to switch to soy, and if they have problems with that, then they have to switch to the ridiculously priced hypo-allergenic formulas, etc. that pretty much look, taste, and smell like wallpaper paste.

Babies are very sensitive, and often times giving them foods that don't agree with them, and it causes allergies to foods.

Also, because formula is man-made in factories, just like anything else, sometimes there are product recalls. The stores usually remove recalled products from shelves, and they put it on the news-but what if you were at work, didn't see the news, and bought a can of the product before the store was notified? There is always the chance of this-just like with people getting sick from recalled peanut butter, and other products. There are more formula recalls than people realize.


As far as the bottle feeding for part of the day...breastfeeding works on supply and demand. If your baby eats every 2 hours on average, and takes about 3 ounces on average, that is what your body expects...and what your body makes for that baby. Bottle feeding when you go out can cause issues as well-supply issues with you, and discomfort. If you go shopping with friends for 4 hours, and use formula for 2 feedings-your body is still making milk and expecting to feed that baby at the regular times. Your breasts get hard like rocks because they are full, are very uncomfortable, and you can "leak", especially if the baby cries...or even if ANOTHER baby around you cries. Your body knows it is time to feed the baby...and when it hears the crying, it starts letting the milk go.

So, the expense of bottles and equipment, and the hassle of trying to find a way to warm them up, etc. are hassles, yes....but there are a lot of other hassles as well to deal with-such as the discomfort and leaking if you bottle feed while out, and the actual problems with using baby formula for some babies.

If you are breastfeeding, it is just easier to breastfeed!

[gottriplets]

Originally Posted by CathyWeasly

That sounds like a good idea - perhaps extend it to all the awkward questions children ask?

That's perfect Cathy, because there are so many things that children want to know. I think I'll start a thread.

[beth83]

Originally Posted by mexicant

Well, I know my son is doing well because my mother-in-law is a Speech therapist and so is her sister. My son has a decent amount of words (getting to be around 200 now, I think), but I still feel like I'm behind teaching him I guess.

okay now i'm worried again! *goes to prod dylan to see how many words i can get out of him*

[CathyWeasley]

Don't worry about their vocabulary - when they hit thirteen they revert to a strange grunting language anyway!

[gottriplets]

Originally Posted by CathyWeasly

Don't worry about their vocabulary - when they hit thirteen they revert to a strange grunting language anyway!

How true you are! Those years I have to say were the worst.

[CelestLBeing]

Originally Posted by CathyWeasly

Don't worry about their vocabulary - when they hit thirteen they revert to a strange grunting language anyway!

Wow! I thought I was the only one that had to learn 'grunt' speak.

[beth83]

Originally Posted by CathyWeasly

Don't worry about their vocabulary - when they hit thirteen they revert to a strange grunting language anyway!

that's what i love about this thread. you guys out there always have the ability to make me feel better