Remedial Potions And Snape As An Efficient Death Eater

[aislin]

I had that impression. Why else would Harry go out of his way to argue with Snape? That essay was pure Maruaders vs. Snape. Lupin taught Harry to use the patronus charm so that is what Harry will use and therefore since Lupin taught it, it is better than any method Snape has.

[OddmentTweak]

Yes, I agree. My impression was pure Harry stubborness.

[Nymphchild]

Originally Posted by HPSpec

Didn't you gett the idea that Harry simply refused to learn Snape's other method? I may be reading too much into it but that was the impression I got.

And Snape's information could be so useful. I am still looking up the spider references in the books (and I came up with some as I think great ideas about the Snape - Hagrid connection and the Snape - Fred/ George connection that I will post sometime if it will fit in somewhere) and I conducted a internet research on the symbolism of spiders. One thing I really like is the line from spiders to their nets and to Dreamcatchers. Spiders produce webs that made Native Americans come up with their Dreamcatchers that hold of bad dreams. Snape had a great method to teach Harry to block bad dreams - Occlumency. But Harry just refused to use this Dreamcatcher offered and had to live with the consequences. Sirius is dead.
And here I want to mention some stuff I posted on Aluna's Red and Green thread. Lupin is described as off-colour and Snape was the only one in the castle able to give him the tools at hand (a portion) to find his colour back that means to live on a human life. Wormtail also described as off-colour had just the tincture of the Magical Menagerie and he had to run for Voldemort to live on. If Ron had asked Snape maybe had given him a Portion for Wormtail too. Snape tried to give Harry a tool to help the third and last living Marauder to live on. But he refused and Sirius died. Hopefully Harry takes the lesson of Snape now since he is James' offspring and copy - something like the fourth Marauder. And Marauders live longer and better with Snape's tools.

[HPSpec]

Nymphchild, great post! (Gee, I say that to you a lot!) Perhaps you can post your spider ideas on the Triwizard Foreshadowing thread if you cannot fit them in here? (Although off topic never bother me! )

And speaking of off topic, I ran across this in PS/SS. As Harry is brought to Privet Drive Dumbledore says the Wizarding World has had little to celebrate for 11 years. We think the Potters were 22 when they died - meaning things were just turning for the worse when Snape and the Potters entered school. Dumbledore's statement is so specific - why not a round 'ten' years? Or 'in over ten years'?

My point is...when Snape joined Bella's gang I don't think he'd have any idea what that alliance would mean for his future - Voldemort hadn't come to the Wizarding World's notice yet. But did shortly after.

[aislin]

There's no way Snape (or anyone) could have known what being in Voldemort's service would mean for the long run. Regulas' parents were first thrilled but once they saw what Voldemort was up to, they were *less* thrilled. Regulas, according to Sirius, tried to back out after getting so far in and was killed for it. Snape probably thought this was the best thing for him at the time but learned quickly that it was not.

[allegro]

Originally Posted by OddmentTweak

Nymphchild had a wonderful post on the Lupin and Neville's boggart scene! She decided that it was a deliberate dig at Snape. The boggart lesson came before the werewolf outing, right? One was early in the school year, one of Lupin's first lessons, and the other was later during one of Lupins' 'time of the month' illnesses . Nymphchild thought Snape was firing back at Lupin for the boggart humiliation. CathyW's idea puts another layer onto Snape's motives. He also could have been covertly trying to warn about his disapproval of a dangerous werewolf around children.

Snape comes out of the room saying that this class contains Neville Longbottom and it's wise not to give any important tasks to him, so Lupin gives the task and here we have Snape dressed like a woman. And Snape brings Mrs Pince to my mind in that outfit, even if I think she isn't Snape's mom.

Originally Posted by OddmentTweak

I think he keeps people at bay on purpose. 1) because of his childhood 2) he sees no need to associate with dunderheads 3) it helps him with his spy game.

I agree.

Originally Posted by HPSpec

Didn't you gett the idea that Harry simply refused to learn Snape's other method? I may be reading too much into it but that was the impression I got.

Funny. Harry takes Prince's methods without hesitation and refuses to use Snape's methods.

[OddmentTweak]

Originally Posted by aislin

There's no way Snape (or anyone) could have known what being in Voldemort's service would mean for the long run.

Here, here! This is the first time I have heard this opinion spoken on these boards.

We have a direct parallel with Hitler here. The general population, hearing only the rosey, 'yes we are great' speaches would not become suspicious for a long time. We have proof that there were some in his inner circle that looked at each other and agreed that Hitler was truly crazy and tried to get rid of him, the suitcase bomb is the best known example.

We have been specifically told that Tom Riddle was charming and persuasive. We can be sure Tom did not gather his first band of followers by saying, "I know! You follow me, and we (or rather you) will terrorize and kill and when you disappoint me, I'll kill you, too!"

I'll bet they signed on because they were for polishing up the wizarding world; it was about pride and preservation. The ministry has been going soft, letting in muggle-borns, consulting with muggle prime ministers. Why, they were at risk of exposing their world and being overrun by the muggles who would be wanting magical solutions to all their problems (SS paperback pg. 63).

All the old wizarding households could get behind that propaganda. And the old houses had the money and position to help Tom get to the top. Once he established himself as a leader, as Lord Voldemort, his true colors started to come out. I'd be willing to bet that when the killings started, some Death Eaters started looking at one another wondering how they got into such a mess, and how to get out of it without getting themselves killed.

I'd also be willing to bet that very few were sorry when Voldemort "went missing" (The Lestranges mainly - and where is Bella's husband now? Has he had enough after Askaban?). I'm sure there was a huge sigh of relief at the Malfoy Mansion. Life could get back to normal.

I'm not trying to say they went to the "good side". But there had to be a rejection of what Voldemort represented. Unfortunately for them, and brilliant of Tom, their dark mark tatoo forced them back into service.

A young Severus, wanting to be a part of a wealthy, positioned group with lofty goals could have quickly changed his mind and wanted out when he saw what Voldemort's real agenda was. But getting out was not a benefit that was offered on the Death Eater contract. The fine print said you signed on for life.

Perhaps Voldemort recognized that Severus was talented, ambitions, misunderstood - rather like himself, except with out the charm and people skills. He might have kept a close eye on Severus, wanting to make good use of his skills and making it impossible for Snape to back out without dying immediately if not sooner.

My theory is that Severus went to Dumbledore to offer his help in defeating Voldemort, so he could get out of the Death Eaters contract alive, and rid the world of this evil. Not so much 'because Snape is in it for himself' but rather, the only way out is to kill Voldemort before he kills me. (I don't think Snape agrees with Voldemort's evil agenda either). More of a rejection of the "dark side" than embracing of the warm and fuzzy "good side".

I suggest that Snape and Dumbledore have continually been working out a plan to defeat Voldemort coming up with the double spy role for Snape together. I don't feel Dumbledore would actually ask that of someone, Snape had to volunteer. The fact that Dumbledore has kept key players safe at Hogwarts as teachers all these years proves that they did not believe Voldie truly gone. While Dumbledore's main goal would be to save the wizarding world from evil, Snapes main goal would probably be to stay alive.

Is he an efficient Death Eater? Well, he is still alive.

[CathyWeasley]

Brilliant post OddmentTweak! I would have to disagree with one point though and that is I don't think that Snape's goal is only to stay alive. From what Dumbledore said in HBP he can hide people very successfully from Voldemort as this is what he offers to Draco; perhaps he did offer this to Snape, but Snape chose to become a spy - and I agree that it was SNape's choice. I don't see becoming a double agent as the choice of someone whose main goal is to stay alive.

[HPSpec]

Originally Posted by OddmentTweak

My theory is that Severus went to Dumbledore to offer his help in defeating Voldemort, so he could get out of the Death Eaters contract alive, and rid the world of this evil.

And my standard reply is why assume that Snape EVER was a true Death Eater? A man like Dumbledore would forgive someone's misjudgment but trusting them 'completely' and putting students under the person's care is another matter entirely! That would be sending the message that there are not consequences for bad decisions - something I seriously doubt that JKR wants to say. Make a bad choice and doors DO get closed in my opinion.

[cruplover]

Ah, HPSpec, I'm glad our ISP at work finally allowed me to check in! You know, but perhaps a few here don't, that I feel that to "return to the light" or however Dumbledore puts it, that Snape must actually have been gone, as in, been a "true" Death Eater. Now, where the hair-splitting comes in is that I do believe that most probably, Snape kept his hands clean so to speak. I happen to believe Snape's original use to Voldemort was as either a spy or as some sort of potions master. So, if one had to perform some sort of initiation rite (was Cedric's murder Peter's initiation?), I suppose that pre-Tower, I could believe that Snape's hands were clean, and if that means he's not a "true" Death Eater, so be it.

(This fence-sitting gets tough sometimes!)

[maebelle]

Wonderful posts, aislin and OddmentTweak!!! If that isn't it, it has to be pretty darn close. Voldemort was reeling in followers, with his 'pureblood' mania. After he had established a fair amount of followers, he dropped the bomb on them as to his true intentions.

I'm still with HPSpec though, I am not yet convinced Snape was ever a Death Eater.

Nymphchild, I want to hear more spider ideas, too!

Originally Posted by cruplover

I do believe that most probably, Snape kept his hands clean so to speak. I happen to believe Snape's original use to Voldemort was as either a spy or as some sort of potions master.

I agree, but already a spy for the Order, so not a true Death Eater, a mole (or a spider, if you wish!).

[aislin]

Originally Posted by cruplover

Now, where the hair-splitting comes in is that I do believe that most probably, Snape kept his hands clean so to speak. I happen to believe Snape's original use to Voldemort was as either a spy or as some sort of potions master. So, if one had to perform some sort of initiation rite (was Cedric's murder Peter's initiation?), I suppose that pre-Tower, I could believe that Snape's hands were clean, and if that means he's not a "true" Death Eater, so be it

Hence Bella's remark of Snape always slythering out of action (slytheirng=Slytherin). As wonderful as Dumbledore is, I think even he would draw the line somewhere. If he knew that Snape had done things under Voldemort's orders, I can't see Dumbledore letting him near children. If to be a 'true' Death Eater, one has to kill, torture, etc, then I don't think Snape was a 'true' Death Eater just because I can't see Dumbledore letting him be in a position to have power over children.

[OddmentTweak]

Well put, aislin. I was trying to say that I don't thing Snape was ever a 'true' Death Eater. Once he found out what Voldemort really wanted, Severus wanted out! A bait and switch on his followers, and Snape did not go along with the switch.

I was trying to cheekily say that staying alive might be a little higher on Snapes' agenda than Dumbledores'. But Snape would not want to live in a world where Voldemort was supreme leader, and he is willing to fight to that end.

Originally Posted by HPSpec
And my standard reply is why assume that Snape EVER was a true Death Eater

I am not assuming, I am going on the record with my intuitive, educated feelings on the matter. Not everything can be a big surprise plot twist! That would cheapen the real twists into repetitive devices by an author that is trying to be too tricky for their (and their story's) own good. Right now I think this one is more straight forward. It rings elegantly true to me.

Why should we not be given an example of a wizard that went the easy 'stick with the powerful, influential folks' but then truly reversed when they realized it was not at all what they thought it would be? That's the gray to the all good v.s. all bad v.s. don't get me involved folks.

[hpfan101]

I think Snape at one point was a true Death Eater (see below though). Otherwise, I don't see Snape's redemption if he were never truly a death eater. There is no redemption if it was a farce all along, in my opinion. I think Snape is the character that shows that sometimes, people make bad decisions, but they can change, and they can rectify their mistakes. I personally don't like the idea that once a person commits one bad act, he can never redeem himself from that one act.

I agree that I don't see Dumbledore trusting Snape completely for the reason that Dumbledore gave Harry. There is no reason for Dumbeldore to trust Snape just for feeling "guilty." I think something happened, something we have not yet learned, that gave Dumbledore reason to truly trust Snape. I go back and forth on what that is, but I do think there is more to the story than we have heard.

That being said, I think Snape did suffer consequences for his bad actions. I think that if he did love Lily, her death was a pretty harsh consequence, one he has to live with every day for the rest of his life. I agree that bad choices must have consequences, but I do also think there is redemption available to anyone who seeks it. But, that redemptive act must be pretty impresive, in my humble opinion, and I don't buy the remorse story. It's not big enough for me.

I, however, also agree with cruplover and aislin and OddmentTweak about the definiton of a "true" death eater. I think Snape's original use to Voldemort was as a spy, thus, he never had to "get his hands dirty." However, JKR has said that as a death eater, Snape has seen things, just not participated. THe problem is, we have no idea what Snape thought about these actions--did they contribute to his "returning" to the good side? Did he revel in the pain of others, if he himself was in pain, such pain that caused him to turn to the Death Eaters in the first place? I think Snape's reaction is vitally important in deciding how much he truly invested his psyche into the Death Eaters' camp. It is hard to swallow that Dumbledore would allow a man who had tortured others to teach children, though, I agree.

[HPSpec]

Originally Posted by aislin

(slytheirng=Slytherin)

!

Originally Posted by hpfan101

Otherwise, I don't see Snape's redemption if he were never truly a death eater.

hpfan101, good to see you check in! Take another look at JKR's quote - she specifically does not answer the question about Snape's assumed 'redemptive pattern'. It is perfect JKR, you can read support for Good!Snape or Bad!Snape.

I composed this post before I read the last few replies so please - this is directed at no one in particular. Skepticism is always good and I've held back my skepticism of the whole 'Snape as a true Death Eater' long enough. I've been hounded with 'where's the canon' on a few threads so all of you will suffer my revenge.

Snape as an (in)efficient Death Eater

First, two points:
1) In HBP Bella claims that Snape is always 'slithering out'. Nothing suggests that she has EVER thought he did something evil. He has to trot out the recently deceased Ms. Vance and the disposal of Sirius Black. Bella isn't satisfied.

2) All of us seem to want to whitewash Snape and say he is presently on the good side. But many of the same people want to say he was a true Death Eater at one point and want to believe disappointment sent Snape into the Death Eaters. Time for you to get a taste of your own skepticism!

Lets look at the canon timeline, shall we?

• Canon: Per Dumbledore (PS/SS Ch 1), Voldemort began terrorizing everyone about the time Snape entered Hogwarts and Bella was about to leave it.
• Canon: Snape was connected to Bella's crowd of future Death Eaters (GoF)
• Canon: Barty Crouch,Jr was a Death Eater at age 17 - 18 (GoF)
• Canon: Regulus was born in 1961 and died in 1979 (black family tapestry: I have to hope Wikepedia used it since I've never seen it)
• Canon: Regulus was a Death Eater
• Math: Regulus died at 18 or 19 so became a Death Eater around 18
• Educated Guess: Bella very likely became a Death Eater upon graduation and there is NO reason to expect she wasn't one by age 22-23, when Snape graduated
• Educated Guess: There is no reason to believe that Bella didn't immediately press her old 'groupie', Snape, into Death Eater service on his graduation.

Lets do the math, Potters die around age 22. Snape, the same age, enters Death Eater service by age 18. That is FOUR YEARS of Death Eater service, people! So how did Snape say 'clean' enough to annoy Bella and be considered acceptable for a post at Hogwarts?

The three options I've seen thus far: He was used as a healer, as a potions brewer or he was used to spy on Dumbledore's camp.

Option 1: Healer
My turn for skepticism. Why on earth would Voldemort keep a healer clean? Why would Voldemort care to 'heal' his Death Eaters? Battle scars are a badge of honor (Wormtail anyone?). And if a Death Eater, uninhibited from using unforgiveables, cannot manage to come out if a skimish without being incapacitated I imagine that Voldemort would view them as more useful as an inferi. Sorry, I'm not buying the 'Voldemort wants a healer' idea. It goes totally against the canon we've seen. Voldemort abandons people that 'don't make the cut'. They are a danger to the rest of the Death Eaters.

Option 2: Potion Brewer
Interesting, but we have no canon of special potions beyond that in the cave and it seems unlikely that 1) Voldemort wouldn't brew that himself and 2) Voldemort didn't put the locket in the potion years before Snape graduated. There were masses of inferi and Voldemort had been terrorizing the Wizarding World for 7 years before Snape graduated. I doubt he killed them all in Snape's time.

Option 3: Spy
I favor this. But how the heck would 18 year old Snape sell himself as a useful spy? Hmm, who does he know? Slughorn (not in the Order) and, probably given number of posters that believe it, Lily. Hmm, Lily. In the Order. Hmm. Lily, a witch that we know is close to Dumbledore (Hagrid, PS/SS). Yes, Snape would have to stay 'clean' for lily-white Lily to want anything to do with him.

Snape 'miraculously comes to his senses' after FOUR YEARS of Death Eater service? Because he hears Lily has been targeted? And I hear complaints about my idea that Eileen may be a strong woman because she was a team captain? Turn that 'canon' spotlight on yourselves please!

What a relief. Got that rock off my chest - I just hope you'll all still be nice to me! I've pampered your theories and you all have indulged me on the old 'Snape and Lily working together' even though you didn't believe a word of it - truly, you all were amazing! But the gloves seem to be off so I am going to get a few jabs in too!

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by HPSpec

I composed this post before I read the last few replies so please - this is directed at no one in particular. Skepticism is always good and I've held back my skepticism of the whole 'Snape as a true Death Eater' long enough. I've been hounded with 'where's the canon' on a few threads so all of you will suffer my revenge.

Uh oh, now we've made her mad...

First, two points:
1) In HBP Bella claims that Snape is always 'slithering out'. Nothing suggests that she has EVER thought he did something evil. He has to trot out the recently deceased Ms. Vance and the disposal of Sirius Black. Bella isn't satisfied.

There is, of course, the prophecy. Not something he can tell Bella about, but we know! Though really, I thought in that chapter they were more talking about recent history, post return stuff. When he definitely had the spying excuse working for him in spades.

Educated Guess: There is no reason to believe that Bella didn't immediately press her old 'groupie', Snape, into Death Eater service on his graduation.

There is also no reason to believe it might not have taken just a little bit longer. Say, a year or slightly more. The disappointment might not have been just about school. Maybe something from school followed him and prevented him from pursuing his desired career, for example? Or (Major Sappiness Warning) it took Lily's wedding to James to push him over the edge?

Also, a thought I just had...maybe he WASN'T a Death Eater when he heard the Prophecy. Maybe he was in a trial period, needing to 'prove himself' somehow. And he opportunistically overheard the Prophecy, reported it to Voldemort, and was then accepted, given the Mark, and, since he seemed lucky that way, given the opportunity spy more. In this period he would start to 'see things' as a Death Eater that would horrify him (like Regulus), and learning how Voldemort interpreted the Prophecy would by the final straw...

Option 1: Healer
My turn for skepticism. Why on earth would Voldemort keep a healer clean? Why would Voldemort care to 'heal' his Death Eaters? Battle scars are a badge of honor (Wormtail anyone?). And if a Death Eater, uninhibited from using unforgiveables, cannot manage to come out if a skimish without being incapacitated I imagine that Voldemort would view them as more useful as an inferi. Sorry, I'm not buying the 'Voldemort wants a healer' idea. It goes totally against the canon we've seen. Voldemort abandons people that 'don't make the cut'. They are a danger to the rest of the Death Eaters.

Well, one speculation is that Voldie has a use for this for HIMSELF. Additional life extending or enhancing magic, to use in addition to Horcruxes, perhaps.

Option 2: Potion Brewer
Interesting, but we have no canon of special potions beyond that in the cave and it seems unlikely that 1) Voldemort wouldn't brew that himself and 2) Voldemort didn't put the locket in the potion years before Snape graduated. There were masses of inferi and Voldemort had been terrorizing the Wizarding World for 7 years before Snape graduated. I doubt he killed them all in Snape's time.

No canon, but with all the Death Eater murders we hear about, why must they all have been with the Killing Curse? Why not poisons, in some cases? Made by an expert, and slipped to the victim by someone in a better position to do so than a complete stranger?

Also, potions such as Veritaserum (and, perhaps even more importantly, its antidote!), Polyjuice, Felix Felicis, and Wolfsbane (if it was invented soon after Snape graduated) are all hard to make properly. And they could be quite useful to Death Eater operations. While I do not doubt Voldemort could brew them himself, that is why Dark Lords have minions. Only some minions are much better at this than others.

[HPSpec]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

There is, of course, the prophecy.

Actually, whether aislin and OddmentTweak believe the idea or not, they helped me cover that. If a soused Aberforth repeated the first line of the prophecy as he booted Snape out of Hog's Head while implying that he views Snape is the 'the one' then the Death Eaters (it is, conveniently, a Death Eater hangout) would have marched him off to Voldemort. Snape had a choice - die or give the second sentence that clears him.

First line of the prophecy The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ...

Thanks to maebelle for pointing out that this line could be viewed as referring to Snape until the second sentence is heard.

Originally Posted by zgirnius

There is also no reason to believe it might not have taken just a little bit longer.

And I say there is - does anything about Bella strike you as patient? She is connected with Snape, why would she not want to gain Voldemort's favor by obtaining recruits? I bet that is how Regulus got roped in too...and I bet that is why Kreacher only respects Narcissa, per canon. Mrs. Black hated Bella for destroying her favorite son and Kreacher reflects that anger. Although if Bella hasn't been burned from the tapestry I guess those words are a bit too strong.

Originally Posted by zgirnius

Well, one speculation is that Voldie has a use for this for HIMSELF. Additional life extending or enhancing magic, to use in addition to Horcruxes, perhaps.

And after Voldemort has, per canon, been terrorizing the Wizarding World for 7 years Snape thinks this is ok? And after 30 years of being without a healer Voldie suddenly needs one? The man lets others do his dirty work. And would he let other Death Eaters think that he could learn something from a 20 year old boy? I seriously doubt it. This man governs by fear - he needs everyone to believe that he needs no one.

Originally Posted by zgirnius

Why not poisons, in some cases? Made by an expert, and slipped to the victim by someone in a better position to do so than a complete stranger?

And Snape isn't smart enough to figure out what these poisonous potions are being used for? That's fine for Bad!Snape that pulled the wool over Dumbledore's eyes but it isn't going to wash for Good!Snape.

I am on the warpath against 'Snape as a true (efficient) Death Eater because of a broken heart'. The only way to silence me is to ignore me - try to take down my arguments and I will fight back!

[hpfan101]

Originally Posted by HPSpec

hpfan101, good to see you check in! Take another look at JKR's quote - she specifically does not answer the question about Snape's assumed 'redemptive pattern'. It is perfect JKR, you can read support for Good!Snape or Bad!Snape.

Thanks, HPSpec! I’ve missed being on here—I have been so busy as of late and I haven’t been anywhere near a computer for more than 20 minutes at a time for the week! I was going through some serious withdrawals! I do know which quote you are referring to about the “redemptive pattern,” and quite right you are! I wasn’t actually referring to anything Jo said though, just my own personal belief that Snape shows redemption . And again, you are right, Jo writes it so that if is Good and Bad Snape, but I just like seeing the Good!Snape!

Originally Posted by HPSpec

I've been hounded with 'where's the canon' on a few threads so all of you will suffer my revenge.

Yey! HPSpec’s revenges! I love them!

Originally Posted by HPSpec

2) All of us seem to want to whitewash Snape and say he is presently on the good side. But many of the same people want to say he was a true Death Eater at one point and want to believe disappointment sent Snape into the Death Eaters. Time for you to get a taste of your own skepticism!

Thanks for bringing us down to earth! It is quite ironic, isn’t it that we sing Good!Snape, yet insist he was EvilDeathEater!Snape!

Originally Posted by HPSpec

Canon: Snape was connected to Bella's crowd of future Death Eaters (GoF)

This is per Sirius, whom many believe stretched the truth just a bit. What would Sirius really have known about Snape during their first year? And some believe that Bella was already gone by this point. Others have speculated that Bella might have been a sixth or seventh year. If she talked to Snape, most likely it was to use him in some way to get at Sirius. Otherwise, why would Bella care about an oddball, greasy first year?

Originally Posted by zgirnius

Also, a thought I just had...maybe he WASN'T a Death Eater when he heard the Prophecy. Maybe he was in a trial period, needing to 'prove himself' somehow. And he opportunistically overheard the Prophecy, reported it to Voldemort, and was then accepted, given the Mark, and, since he seemed lucky that way, given the opportunity spy more. In this period he would start to 'see things' as a Death Eater that would horrify him (like Regulus), and learning how Voldemort interpreted the Prophecy would by the final straw...

This is interesting. I do think that Voldemort wouldn't let anyone just "join up" and "jump in." I think he would need to see his Death Eaters prove themselves, especially if he has different ranks

I also am not convinced that Snape joined the Death Eaters right out of Hogwarts. I think there was one event post-Hogwarts that pushed Snape over the edge and into the Death Eaters' arms. This is, of course, just my speculation, but it's my theory for now and I am sticking to it!

Originally Posted by HPSpec

Option 1: Healer

I also am skeptical about this one. If anything, I might think that originally Snape wanted to be a Healer but wasn't able to for some reason (SWM perhaps?). I also don't see Voldemort caring about a Healer's abiltities, unless he used them for his own sake, but Voldemort tends to like Dark and unknown branches of magic, and I don't think Healers are either.

Originally Posted by HPSpec

Option 2: Potion Brewer

See, I think this option is very possible. As zgirinius points out, what use are minions if they don't do anything for you? Potions, as we have seen, are very valuable in stealth and defenses. I think Voldemort would jump at the chance for a great potions maker, especially one as talented as Snape. Why else would Voldemort have wanted to recruit Slughorn?

Originally Posted by HPSPec

Snape 'miraculously comes to his senses' after FOUR YEARS of Death Eater service? Because he hears Lily has been targeted? And I hear complaints about my idea that Eileen may be a strong woman because she was a team captain? Turn that 'canon' spotlight on yourselves please!

Point taken, but I still think that if Snape was in love with Lily, if he turned his back on her either after Levicorpus became popular (if he though Lily betrayed him and gave it to James, for instance) or because she started dating James, but if he never got over her and it took her being targeted to slap Snape in the face and for him to realize what he had done, I think Lily being targeted might have woken Snape up to what the Death Eaters were willing to do. It makes sense to me, at least! Especially if Voldemort already wanted Snape to be "clean" as a possible spy on Dumbledore, maybe Snape never did see the true horrors of what Voldemort was willing to do until much later.

[aislin]

HPSpec is on the war path. Look out!

Maybe Snape's youth worked for him. Dumbledore told Harry in the cave that Voldemort underestimated youth. Maybe Voldemort did not give Snape more dangerous tasks because he was young and inexperianced. I hear the Draco counter-arguement coming and I say that Voldemort only gave Draco that task to punish Lucius.Snape said he didn't think Voldemort actucally expected Draco to succeed where Voldemort had failed and that he (Snape) would have to do it in the end.

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by HPSpec

If a soused Aberforth repeated the first line of the prophecy as he booted Snape out of Hog's Head while implying that he views Snape is the 'the one' then the Death Eaters (it is, conveniently, a Death Eater hangout) would have marched him off to Voldemort.

I'd forgotten this highly amusing speculation, thanks for reminding me! But it could also have been Snape trying to please Voldemort, we really don't know. I'm not saying you MUST be wrong, just why I think you are.

And I say there is - does anything about Bella strike you as patient? She is connected with Snape, why would she not want to gain Voldemort's favor by obtaining recruits? I bet that is how Regulus got roped in too...

I don't know about Regulus, but I think that by 18, Snape was no pushover. He could tell Bella he'd think about it and get back to her. He is certainly not in the least intimidated by her in the only interaction between the two of them that we see in the books.

And Snape isn't smart enough to figure out what these poisonous potions are being used for? That's fine for Bad!Snape that pulled the wool over Dumbledore's eyes but it isn't going to wash for Good!Snape.

How do you see Draco, at the end of HBP? As insincere? Frightened? To me, it seemed that obviously, he did a very evil thing by joining the Death Eaters, and then using the necklace and the poison and putting people in danger. But I think he only fully appreciated this himself when he was forced to come face to face with his next victim. I don't think he was too afraid to kill Dumbledore, I think he really didn't want to. And I can see Snape having the same realization, that his actions in a nice neat Potions lab or a meeting with Voldemort are hurting or killing REAL PEOPLE, who don't deserve it, when he realizes the Prophecy he reported had endangered the Potters.

I am on the warpath against 'Snape as a true (efficient) Death Eater because of a broken heart'. The only way to silence me is to ignore me - try to take down my arguments and I will fight back!

Ignore you? That would be no fun!