Dumbledore, a Parselmouth?

[Gandalf_Shaw]

Originally Posted by YellowPoofBall

Yes, I understand the nature of the debate. What I want to know is what those "necessary steps" would have been. I think he took all the precautions possible; it's not like he could, as I suggested, flush himself down Myrtle's toilet to get into the Chamber. I'm sure he was perfectly clear that there was a basilisk on the loose.

Well surely a necessary step would have been to make sure no students came into contact with the Basilik. As far as implementing this policy, I don't know whether this would mean closing the school like was suggested 50 years ago in Riddle's days.

[Marvolo]

hmm

[witchygurl]

I don't think that dumbledore knew parselmouth. i think he understood it was being spoken, but i don't think that he really needed to know what was being said in the memory in order to figure out what was happening.

Also, i think it adds to the validity of what happend in CoS. While in SS/PS, it wasn't necessary to stop quirrel from getting the stone, as it was protected in the mirror, ginny was dying in book two. so i think that if dumbledore had been able to open the chamber, he would have. he probably knew it was protected by parselmouth, so he knew he couldn't save ginny. as it was only harry who spoke it, he was the one who had to save her.

[Scotty123]

It seems to be accepted on this thread that if DD understood parseltongue he would have heard the basilisk in COS yet I have not been able to find any instance where Harry hears the Basilisk in DDs presence? He certainly never tells DD about it even when asked if there is anything he wants to tell him.

It is quite possible that DD was never near enough to the Basilisk to hear it. It is also possible that the he could hear it but not fully understand it and that is why he questioned Harry in that way. I don't think there is conclusive evidence either for or against DD underrtanding parseltongue in COS unless somene has an example of Harry hearing the basilisk in the presence of DD?

[HPFan4Life73106]

I never got the idea that Dumbledore was a parselmouth. However, it might make sense that he could understand it, even if he could not speak it. He does have a way with languages.

When I was in high school, I took some french. While I was never very good speaking it, I could and still can understand some of it. While I'm sure parselmouth would be different, being able to understand vs. being able to speak does seem pretty reasonable.

[hershlag]

parslemouth is a gift not a learnable language from what i understand so i dont think its "learnable" dumbledore never said he wasnt a parslemouth so hey im not gonna say he isnt!

[Scotty123]

In re reading HBP I noticed that although we have discussed the parseltongue spoken in the first Guant house memory we have not mentioned the second Morphin memory. In that example the entire dialogue between Riddle and Morphin is in parseltongue The entire memory in fact. If DD could not understand parseltongue it would seem strange that he did not mention that to Harry or explain how it was translated. Given that Morphin could not consciously remember the events and believed that he was the murderer of the Riddles he could not have provided a reliable translation. It seems that the simplest explanation is simply that DD has learned or aquired by some magical means the ability to understand parseltongue. He explained the difficulty of obtaining the memory and how he had to break down the memory modification yet no mention of finding a translator.

[snapegirl]

Originally Posted by Scotty123

In re reading HBP I noticed that although we have discussed the parseltongue spoken in the first Guant house memory we have not mentioned the second Morphin memory. In that example the entire dialogue between Riddle and Morphin is in parseltongue The entire memory in fact. If DD could not understand parseltongue it would seem strange that he did not mention that to Harry or explain how it was translated. Given that Morphin could not consciously remember the events and believed that he was the murderer of the Riddles he could not have provided a reliable translation. It seems that the simplest explanation is simply that DD has learned or aquired by some magical means the ability to understand parseltongue. He explained the difficulty of obtaining the memory and how he had to break down the memory modification yet no mention of finding a translator.

Dumbledore still doesn't need to know parseltongue or get a translator to understand what happened, I think. Dumbledore has been researching Voldemort's life for quite some time now and I think just be seeing the memory, he understood that Tom went back to the Gaunt house, questioned Morfin about his relatives (since Dumbledore already knew Tom was obesessed with finding out about the magical side of his family), Morfin told Tom about his muggle family and they wind up dead. By the time Dumbledore got the memory, Morfin was locked away for killing the Riddles. Therefore when Dumbledore saw what the memory revealed, that Tom was there right before the murders, it's easy for him to realize who really killed the Riddles.

[Scotty123]

Originally Posted by snapegirl77

Dumbledore still doesn't need to know parseltongue or get a translator to understand what happened, I think. Dumbledore has been researching Voldemort's life for quite some time now and I think just be seeing the memory, he understood that Tom went back to the Gaunt house, questioned Morfin about his relatives (since Dumbledore already knew Tom was obsessed with finding out about the magical side of his family), Morfin told Tom about his muggle family and they wind up dead. By the time Dumbledore got the memory, Morfin was locked away for killing the Riddles. Therefore when Dumbledore saw what the memory revealed, that Tom was there right before the murders, it's easy for him to realize who really killed the Riddles.

I think it really depends on what kind of person one considers Dumbledore to be. A prudent careful wizard able to make complex deductions from minimal evidence who makes use of all available information no matter the effort in obtaining it or one who makes wild guesses based on incomplete information when with little extra effort more information could be gained and deductions made with more confidence. In a case such as this where in his own words it has been hard to find anyone who knew Riddle or Voldemort who was willing or capable of being tricked into revealing their information it seems to me extremely unlikely that he would then waste any information he had by not bothering to understand what was said. Who knows what an arrogant Riddle might have boasted to a victim he intended to wipe the memory of? One piece of such information had the potential to save many lives. I do not think DD or any responsible investigator into V would rely on guesswork myself but if that's the way you read Dumbledore then perhaps he would take that kind of gamble.

[snapegirl]

Originally Posted by Scotty123

I think it really depends on what kind of person one considers Dumbledore to be. A prudent careful wizard able to make complex deductions from minimal evidence who makes use of all available information no matter the effort in obtaining it or one who makes wild guesses based on incomplete information when with little extra effort more information could be gained and deductions made with more confidence. In a case such as this where in his own words it has been hard to find anyone who knew Riddle or Voldemort who was willing or capable of being tricked into revealing their information it seems to me extremely unlikely that he would then waste any information he had by not bothering to understand what was said. Who knows what an arrogant Riddle might have boasted to a victim he intended to wipe the memory of? One piece of such information had the potential to save many lives. I do not think DD or any responsible investigator into V would rely on guesswork myself but if that's the way you read Dumbledore then perhaps he would take that kind of gamble.

I'm not saying that he didn't talk to the people he got the memories from. I'm sure he got every bit of information he could. I just don't think Dumbledore needed to know Parseltongue or find someone who could translate the memories word for word. Dumbledore was very careful about who he shared his imformation about Voldemort and horcruxes with, I don't see him trying to get someone else to help him.
Dumbledore himself said to Harry that at the end of OOTP, he told Harry everything he knew for sure about Voldemort and the prophesy. HBP and all of Dumbledore's theories about horcuxes and Voldemort as a young man are guesswork. I think Dumbledore could understand what was going on in that memory without knowing what was said.

[KrystalGamer]

I do not think DD or any responsible investigator into V would rely on guesswork myself but if that's the way you read Dumbledore then perhaps he would take that kind of gamble.

It's not exactly a gamble. It's an easy bit of guesswork. But how do we know that Dumbledore DIDN'T get a translator? How do we know that Dumbledore didn't involve someone else? If Dumbledore can speak Parseltongue, it's because he was born with the ability. You can't learn that kind of thing, according the the books; it wouldn't be as rare as the students made it out to be in CoS.

But anyways, how can we be sure that he didn't use a translator? Parseltongue's a rare ability, but surely someone else in the world must have it.

[Scotty123]

I think it is interesting how different people have different views on this. When I read HBP and read the first gaunt house memory it never crossed my mind that DD could not understand parseltongue Having seen him converse in Mermish I just assumed it was another example we were being shown of DDs omniscience It was only when I saw the question on this forum that I realized anyone questioned this at all. Given that half the dialogue and in fact all the critical dialogue of the first memory was in parseltongue and all of the second memory was in parseltongue and DD makes no mention of the fact other than drawing Harry's attention to the fact that it is being spoken it seems extraordinary to me that this is in any doubt. It just shows how different preconceptions alter what is apparently "obvious" To me it's obvious he does to some its obvious he does not! Strange! I suppose we may never know now unless someone asks Jo about what her intention was in those chapters. The way I read it the only real reason for having so much of the dialogue in parseltongue was to show that DD did understand it yet this is not the universal view and I accept that it is possible he did not although I still think it would make him remarkably arrogant and reckless to ignore what was said and not even ask Harry for a confirmation but I see that that too is a matter of opinion.

[snapegirl]

Originally Posted by KrystalGamer

It's not exactly a gamble. It's an easy bit of guesswork. But how do we know that Dumbledore DIDN'T get a translator? How do we know that Dumbledore didn't involve someone else? If Dumbledore can speak Parseltongue, it's because he was born with the ability. You can't learn that kind of thing, according the the books; it wouldn't be as rare as the students made it out to be in CoS.

But anyways, how can we be sure that he didn't use a translator? Parseltongue's a rare ability, but surely someone else in the world must have it.

We don't know for sure. But, I think it's unlikely he involved anyone else in his research of Voldemort's early years. Nobody in the Order seem to know about Horcruxes. I think Dumbledore knew enough to figure out what was happening by himself.

[KrystalGamer]

Heh, it is a bit ironic how people view different things differently. It never even crossed my mind that Dumbledore could speak Parseltongue.

If DD CAN speak Parseltongue, I wonder why he never mentioned it to Harry when he had that nice little talk with him in CoS about how he can speak Parseltongue and all that good stuff.

Maybe we'll never know.

EDIT:

We don't know for sure. But, I think it's unlikely he involved anyone else in his research of Voldemort's early years. Nobody in the Order seem to know about Horcruxes. I think Dumbledore knew enough to figure out what was happening by himself.

Agreed.

[Scotty123]

Originally Posted by KrystalGamer

Heh, it is a bit ironic how people view different things differently. It never even crossed my mind that Dumbledore could speak Parseltongue.

If DD CAN speak Parseltongue, I wonder why he never mentioned it to Harry when he had that nice little talk with him in CoS about how he can speak Parseltongue and all that good stuff.

Maybe we'll never know.

EDIT:



Agreed.

Well of course at that time DD still had concern what may be the implication of Harry's scar. He became even more reticent with Harry by OotP and tells Harry that he had long thought there might be a connection. Telling Harry at least pre possesion attemempt by V in OotP anything was tanatamount to telling V. I think DD was always careful what he told Harry.

[Sheree]

Hmmm....
I fall solidly into the camp of people who believe that Dumbledore didn't need to be able to speak Parseltongue to get the gist of what was going on in those memories.
I also cannot imagine that Dumbledore wouldn't have told Harry if he could speak Parseltongue - was there a legitimate reason not to? It is a rare gift, and with Harry having been surrounded by people who truly thought that his being able to speak it automatically made him a dark wizard, it would have done more good for Dumbledore to admit something like that, don't you think? Even if he made Harry say he wouldn't tell anyone, Harry would have felt better with the knowledge.
No, I really believe that Dumbledore is simply the type of man who can put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4 even when everyone around swears that the answer is 5.

[Gandalf_Shaw]

Originally Posted by Sheree

I also cannot imagine that Dumbledore wouldn't have told Harry if he could speak Parseltongue - was there a legitimate reason not to? It is a rare gift, and with Harry having been surrounded by people who truly thought that his being able to speak it automatically made him a dark wizard, it would have done more good for Dumbledore to admit something like that, don't you think? Even if he made Harry say he wouldn't tell anyone, Harry would have felt better with the knowledge.

That's a very good point. If Dumbledore did indeed watch Harry more closely then he knew, then that information would have been both comforting and reassuring, stopping Harry from feeling so isolated for most of the year. Dumbledore just has an innate understanding of magic that far surpasses anything we have seen being taught of magic in the books. His way of understanding what is going on could be a mystery to other capable wizards.

[Potterized]

I was surprised to see this thread because my husband has been saying DD is a parselmouth for years, and I see he is not alone!

Actually, we know nothing about DD. We don't know a thing about his family, other than we know Aberforth is his brother. I don't ever remember reading that he is even a pure-blood. We know that he was in Griffindor, so it seems he attended Hogwarts as a child. We don't know if he has any other siblings. We know nothing about his background. JKR says DD's background is a profitable line of inquiry. She is saying that what we don't know about him will be important in Book 7, so it DOES matter whether or not he is a parselmouth, even though he is dead.

I believe that parseltongue is an inherited trait (with the exception of Harry) and cannot be learned. Yes, DD says that Voldemort is Slytherin's last surviving (direct) descendant, so DD cannot be a descendant of Slytherin. But nowhere does canon say that Slytherin was the FIRST EVER parselmouth, so it is logical that Slytherin himself inherited the trait, and therefore it is possible for others (such as DD and Aberforth) to be parselmouths by being related to Slytherin but not direct descendants.

DD's most valuable legacy is that "It is our choices, not our birth" that define us. I believe that the prime example of choosing "what is right instead of what is easy" is DD himself; he had similar choices to make himself and chose the right ones.