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Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret



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  #1  
Old March 23rd, 2006, 5:10 am
navygreen  Female.gif navygreen is offline
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Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Discussion for The Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret by Brandon Ford.


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  #2  
Old March 23rd, 2006, 6:29 am
misskneazle  Female.gif misskneazle is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Well you ended that with a bang! The last idea was the most intriguing, and maybe setting that task to Draco would be enough to push him to help Harry? I love the possibilities of that. You introduced some interesting speculation about Lucius as well, Lucius a half-blood? Hmm, I dont know but would it really add anything to the plot of book seven? With Voldemort and Snape both being characters most would assume are pure bloods, I'm not sure the story needs another character in that mode. I have to comment on this:
Quote:
The events happening the way they went down also prove that TFPWWNBN is on the side of good because recall that TFPWWNBN has been giving Dumbledore a potion for his hand. Malfoy, if TFPWWNBN was truly working for him, could have slipped something in that potion and been done with it.
I cant recall Snape continuously giving Dumbledore potion for his hand, but even if that were true, it does not by any stretch of the imagination prove that Snape is on the side of good, remember Malfoy is not sharing information with Snape because he believes Snape wants all the glory for himself, by the same tolken, Snape does not have to be keen to kill Dumbledore to be unloyal to Dumbledore, if he wished to sit on the fence for as long as he could(or try to remain a spy a little longer as he said), then he wouldn't be exactly rushing to kill Dumbledore. There are other scenarios, but I'm surprised you used that as evidence for "good Snape".

All in all, I enjoyed your editorial(it wasn't really long either), I enjoyed all the theories(especially the last one), and oh, yes I LOVED the title as well. I look forward to reading more. By the way, the castaways are nothing without SAWYER, forget Jack.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 7:14 am
BluesAngel42  Female.gif BluesAngel42 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Loving that theory at the end! I think it just might happen. However, I also think that maybe Voldy would see Malfoy as competition. After all, he succeeded where Voldy failed. Would Voldy really start trying to groom him into the next dark lord?


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 8:31 am
MacGyverMagic  Undisclosed.gif MacGyverMagic is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

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Originally Posted by BluesAngel42
Loving that theory at the end! I think it just might happen. However, I also think that maybe Voldy would see Malfoy as competition. After all, he succeeded where Voldy failed. Would Voldy really start trying to groom him into the next dark lord?
I think we need another Dark Lord. I'm positive Voldemort met Grindelwald somewhere along the way. Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald (wouldn't that make you fear him if you were the next dark lord?).

History will repeat itself. Good can't exist without bad so at some point we're going to see a new dark lord when Voldemort is defeated. His new nemesis will have that scar mentioned on the last page of the book and, if he survives, Harry will be his mentor.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 9:49 am
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

I loved the editorial!

I noticed the overall absence of the Malfoys on the Black Family tree. However, I'm going to have to diagree on the idea of Lucius being a half-blood simply because of JKR's comment on half-bloods and muggleborns. She said that they're all the same in the eyes of someone like Lucius (I don't have the exact quote).

I thought about Lucius and Draco going against each other. However, I always believed that if such thing happens Lucius would be ordered to kill Draco. You gave a very interesting idea of Draco being ordered to kill Lucius. After all, it seems Draco is Lucius' weak spot and Lucius is obviously Draco's weak spot. That would be an interesting thing to see because I can't imagine Draco raising a wand against Lucius. As for Lucius, he may be a Death Eater, but he loves his son. I doubt he could force himself to kill Draco. So, maybe both turn against Voldemort.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 11:27 am
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Well done


Quote:
and I think Draco will - for the moment - be at Voldemort's side (at least until Voldemort finds an excuse to get rid of him). An interesting thought stuck me, and this is what I will leave you with - Voldemort decides to take Draco under his wing. After proving his mettle against Dumbledore, Draco is given one last initiation rite of passage: following in the grand steps of the Dark Lord, Draco must kill his own father. I'll let you chew on that one.
Oh, I think it is nastier than that. I see Draco having to kill Snape. Snape can't break the vow to protect Draco. So Snape being true to form will have no choice but to aid Harry perhaps?


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 12:42 pm
Dania  Female.gif Dania is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Wonderful editorial, as always!

I especially liked the idea of Voldemort asking Draco to kill his father to prove his loyalty to Voldemort. Voldemort doesn't understand love so he wouldn't expect Draco to go against him if he ordered him to kill Lucius. Or another scenario: Voldemort kills Lucius himself. Either way, Draco might end up helping the good guys, to save or to revenge his father. Because, as pointed out in the editorial, Draco loves his father. And as it is stressed over and over again in the books: Voldemort has never loved nor does he understand love, and that lack of understanding will cause his downfall. Failing to understand Draco's love for his father and thus pushing Draco into helping Harry and co. could be one of the ways that Voldemort would contribute to his own downfall.

I disagree with the editorial on one point, though: I don't think the Unbreakable Vow is in effect anymore, not even the second part about Snape protecting Draco from harm. I think the whole Vow was related to Draco's mission and with Dumbledore dead, and Snape thus fulfilling the first and third part of the Vow, I think the whole Vow has been fulfilled, even if the second part seems more general. But we'll see in book 7, I suppose (can't wait!). Though I guess Snape might continue to protect Draco even if the Vow is no longer in effect.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 3:21 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

"Fourth, the second left and the second right
Are twins once you taste them, though different at first site."

I always thought of this part of the potions tasks in PS/SS as Harry and Draco. It seems Draco is the exact opposite of Harry, almost a negative if you will. Even as far as their looks. But as we come down to it, they are more alike on the deeper inside. I really don't like Draco. but now I see a much deeper character and more interesting, still don't like him very much, but he is more interesting. We see a huge vunerability in Draco in HBP. We see that he is mainly all talk, and scared to play with the big boys.
also it does seem that he has been in training also, just like Harry. Is there more to his training that we haven't seen? Only difference is that Draco knew why he had to do what he was asked too. He took it very seriously. Harry only figured it out at the last part of HBP. anyhoo- not sure what is going to Happen to Draco- I do think Snape will somehow keep him and Narcissa safe.
I wonder if Narcissa is part Veela. She seemed to cast some kind of charm on Snape when at his house. Or he seemed rather charmed by her... anyhoo kinda off subject/ Great editorial!!


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 3:43 pm
Gmariam  Female.gif Gmariam is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Great, fun editorial - I like the way you think and write! I especially think that last thought - Draco offing his own father - was very intriguing. You should write more on that, and how such a scenario would impact Draco and the rest of the story. We have plenty of time until Book Seven, after all
There have been comments about Draco having to kill Lucius, Snape - but not Harry. If Voldemort still wants to punish Lucius Malfoy - and if he indeed is rather peeved that a sixth year killed the great Albus Dumbledore - then what better way to solve two problems at once than sending Draco off on another potentially lethal mission? I wouldn't be surprised if Draco is ordered to kill Harry next. After all, look at his success on the Tower! If Draco can destroy a great wizard like Dumbledore, why not a mere boy like Harry Potter? Of course, Harry has proven difficult to kill on several occassions now. And we all know that Draco wavered there at the end of HBP - he wouldn't have killed Dumbledore, JKR even said so. But Draco's feelings for Harry are far more hateful, I think, so a mission to kill Harry might be something he would do. Or Hermione - he really hates Hermione, and JKR has pointed out her vulnerability. Her death would a hard blow for Harry and Co.
But perhaps something has been wakened in Draco that will lessen his resolve to do any such thing. Perhaps lowering his wand on the Tower was a turning point, and Draco will move away from the Dark Arts and Voldemort. I think he will need a huge push, but I can see him turning back from his path, maybe even helping Harry. Will Harry accept his help? That's another editorial!
Thanks for this fun series!
~Gina


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 3:44 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Once again Brandon, you wow me with your theoretical prowess. I love the idea of Voldy killing Draco because he is angry/jelous that the he did what seemed impossible. The only thing is, Voldy will know that Snape did it for Draco and how will he react to that???? Snape seems like a better qualified wizard and we know that Voldy thinks he is capable, but I think he will still have a hissy over Snape doing what he couldn't. That leaves him either killing one of the other. I strongly feel that Voldemort will or at least attempt to distroy one or both of them.

I also LOVE the idea of Voldy sticking Draco against his father. I can imagine him trying to test Draco by giving him this task. If he refuses, they both die and Voldy is happy to be rid of them. If he does it, Voldy has just gained the MOST loyal DE ( I mean, who would doubt Draco becoming Voldy's pet after that!). And if he refuses and they both turn on him, well...that one is harder to guess, but I bet that Voldy comes out on top, unless they both help Harry in some way and by doing that contrubute to his death...only Jo knows.

Oh and I thoroughly enjoyed how you threw in that Beatles without John bit... great analogy!


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 4:15 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

You left the best for the last, Brandon! That's a striking way of finishing an editorial.

Quote:
Posted by BadEyeBella:
I thought about Lucius and Draco going against each other. However, I always believed that if such thing happens Lucius would be ordered to kill Draco. You gave a very interesting idea of Draco being ordered to kill Lucius. After all, it seems Draco is Lucius' weak spot and Lucius is obviously Draco's weak spot.
I was writing almost the same when I read your post. But let's turn the screw even a little more: Vold -refinedly sadistic- order them to kill each other. He revenges from Lucius, and gets rid of Draco, just a school-boy who has succed where he failed all his life -he can't afford that somebody realizes of this some day. Even thinking that there's nothing worse than death, he must appreciate the irony in making them kill the reason why they have worked for him.
In this case I wonder what Narcissa would do. She almost disobeyed Vold when she asked Snape for help. Would she consent her husband's death to save her son? Would she betray totally Vold -for example, revealing his whereabouts to the Order- to save them both?
The ferret's mother is the key.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 4:20 pm
Dogbert  Undisclosed.gif Dogbert is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmariam
...I wouldn't be surprised if Draco is ordered to kill Harry next. After all, look at his success on the Tower! If Draco can destroy a great wizard like Dumbledore, why not a mere boy like Harry Potter? ...
~Gina
Or perhaps Draco will be ordered to kill some of the Weasley's. In particular, Ginny, since she was involved with the diary that caused all of the problems. Voldy wants Harry for himself.

Draco will definitely be given more assignments. Perhaps he will have to kill Hermione and Ron.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 5:29 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Well Dogbert I hope he is sent to kill Ron and not Hermione, I know Jo has specified a vulnerability in Hermione, but there is something else she once said in an interview, (it was in answer as to what might be Snape's blood status) she said you have to be pure to be a Death Eater and he will only accept Hermione's sort if they prove exceptional.

There are many clues in the books as to Hermione's exceptional talents, anyway that's off the board.

I agree with you Brandon, Draco Malfoy is a louse. But I doubt he'll die, and I don't think Snape will either. The birthday list she has chosen has both Snape and Malfoy on it, and I think that the list is a clue as to who is NOT going to die at the end of the series.

I would personally love it if Draco Malfoy became the next potions master of Hogwarts, having to lower his status, with the Weasleys, (Ron and Hermione) living in his old home! And Snape? Well being a good.Snape fan myself I hope he settles down with Madam Rosmerta!


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 5:57 pm
Gmariam  Female.gif Gmariam is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermione Snape
I agree with you Brandon, Draco Malfoy is a louse. But I doubt he'll die, and I don't think Snape will either. The birthday list she has chosen has both Snape and Malfoy on it, and I think that the list is a clue as to who is NOT going to die at the end of the series.
You could be right about Draco surviving. I was thinking that it would be far too rosy an ending if *all* of Harry's enemies were defeated: Voldemort, Snape, and Draco (I suppose you could add Bellatrix to the list as well). I think there is little question that Voldemort will be defeated, somehow, someway; and my personal belief is that Snape will die - which leaves Draco alive and well. I don't think he will become the next Dark Lord but evil always finds a way, so his survival would represent that ever-present darkness in the world that simply will not go away. Or Draco will be redeemed and live happily ever after with Pansy Parkinson while their children play with young Potters and Weasleys Either way - yes, I think it's likely he'll be okay. But if not, what effect do you think his death will have on the story? Particularly if it is before the final battle?
Off to think on that one now,
~Gina
PS. I never thought I would be so interested in a Draco thread!!


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 7:18 pm
Perman  Undisclosed.gif Perman is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Exellent ideas! I haven't even started thinking about what the various villains might be up to. Though I think it is certain that Harry will meet both Snape and Malfoy over the course of the book, so tasks for killing Harry and such would be a way to go to give us our showdown... Either that or they meet them in the BIG showdown.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 8:22 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

I am a Draco fan, but in the way that he is somebody you love to hate and you always wonder what they're thinking.

I think it's interesting that it seems to be assumed that Lucius loves his son. I disagree wholeheartedly. Lucius looks at Draco as an heir, nothing more. He does not love him. Draco, though, does love his father. But I feel that he loves his mother more. He has defended his mother in the past against the trio, but only seems to use his father as a tool of power and intimidation.
We can see that once that tool is gone (the end of OotP), Draco is more wary. Not quite so loud and domineering as he was in the past.

Another thing I wonder is WHEN exactly Draco was given his task to kill Albus. We can assume that it was during the summer because he brags about it on the train (though not loudly boasting as he usually does, it's more of an acceptance that he will have to do it, so he may as well tell his friends). But what if he was given the task during the end of OotP? I know it's far-fetched because I don't know of a way that he could be told of the task while at school, BUT if he was, that certainly puts a bit more meaning behind his "You're dead, Potter." Draco could have recognized that once Harry's mentor is gone, Harry is much more vulnerable.

It's an interesting thought that Draco would be put up to killing his father. I've thought about that idea for quite a while now, but I don't see Voldemort doing that. I may be wrong, but if anything, Voldemort can find out that Draco prefers his mother, and that Draco would be asked to kill his mother before his father. Especially because I'm sure Voldemort would have or will find out that Narcissa went to Snape when she was told to keep her mouth shut. She disobeyed him as well.

It is my belief that Voldemort will take Draco under his wing, but only to give Draco a false sense of security. Snape, still a double agent for the Order will return with Draco to Voldemort, but he is also still bound to Draco because of the second requirement of the Unbreakable Vow (totally agree that that vow is still in place because of that). Snape will try to explain Voldemort's set up of Draco to him, but Draco will not see it until Voldemort asks Draco to kill his mother. At this point Draco will flee with help from Snape and seek the Order.

I do believe that Draco will kill his father, but it will be during the final battle. Draco on the side of light with his father an enemy.

I know it's a bit fanfic-ish, but it was the best way to explain my thoughts. Draco is just one of those mysterious, unpredictable characters that's what makes him so intertesting and one that anybody could come up with any senario with Draco and it would be possible, because we just have no idea.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 8:47 pm
Dumbldoresman77 Dumbldoresman77 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

I loved the editorial but i disagree on one thing. Malfoy didnt kill Dumbldore(rest in peace) snape did. MAlfoy tweaked the circumstances so that it was possible for snape to killd him, but didnt pull the trigger, in fact malfoy lowered his wand and proved incapable of delivering the final blow. Snape came in and did the job that Volemort had failed to do. Voldemort, I think, is going to be intimidated by snape. I know that sounds silly for a man with such an ego and arrogance, but snape succeeded where voldemort had failed many times. I think malfoy and narcissa will go into hiding because technically draco did fail by not killing dumbledore. Aside from that i liked the editorial especially the last part


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 9:17 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Maybe the fact that Voldemort is so arrogant will work as a plus for Draco and Snape. When Voldemort learns the circumstances under which Dumbledore was able to be killed, presumably weak and wandless, maybe he will see this as nothing more then a very lucky chance for Draco and Snape.

I do not think Draco will kill anybody(though I agree he may be asked), the fact that he lowered his wand against Dumbledore indicates that Draco is incapable of killing.

Hermione Snape wrote:
Quote:
I agree with you Brandon, Draco Malfoy is a louse. But I doubt he'll die, and I don't think Snape will either. The birthday list she has chosen has both Snape and Malfoy on it, and I think that the list is a clue as to who is NOT going to die at the end of the series.
I never thought about the list as a clue. I hope you haven't guessed it, we have not been given a birth date for Luna yet! If you are right on the other hand that means all of the trio will live(Yippe)! If you are wrong, I believe that Draco will live but Snape will die.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 9:58 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dania
Wonderful editorial, as always!

I especially liked the idea of Voldemort asking Draco to kill his father to prove his loyalty to Voldemort. Voldemort doesn't understand love so he wouldn't expect Draco to go against him if he ordered him to kill Lucius. Or another scenario: Voldemort kills Lucius himself. Either way, Draco might end up helping the good guys, to save or to revenge his father. Because, as pointed out in the editorial, Draco loves his father. And as it is stressed over and over again in the books: Voldemort has never loved nor does he understand love, and that lack of understanding will cause his downfall. Failing to understand Draco's love for his father and thus pushing Draco into helping Harry and co. could be one of the ways that Voldemort would contribute to his own downfall.

I disagree with the editorial on one point, though: I don't think the Unbreakable Vow is in effect anymore, not even the second part about Snape protecting Draco from harm. I think the whole Vow was related to Draco's mission and with Dumbledore dead, and Snape thus fulfilling the first and third part of the Vow, I think the whole Vow has been fulfilled, even if the second part seems more general. But we'll see in book 7, I suppose (can't wait!). Though I guess Snape might continue to protect Draco even if the Vow is no longer in effect.
I agree!

The sorting hat said the houses need to unite. Draco joining forces with Harry would help accomplish that. I've always felt Draco would join Harry because LV killed one or more of his parents, but being ordered to kill your father works too.

I also agree about the Unbreakable Vow. It centered around Draco completing his task. The task is done.


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Old March 23rd, 2006, 9:59 pm
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Re: Underground Lake #34 - Cryptic Characters, Part 2: The Fate of the Ferret

Quote:
It is my belief that Voldemort will take Draco under his wing, but only to give Draco a false sense of security. Snape, still a double agent for the Order will return with Draco to Voldemort, but he is also still bound to Draco because of the second requirement of the Unbreakable Vow (totally agree that that vow is still in place because of that). Snape will try to explain Voldemort's set up of Draco to him, but Draco will not see it until Voldemort asks Draco to kill his mother. At this point Draco will flee with help from Snape and seek the Order.

I do believe that Draco will kill his father, but it will be during the final battle. Draco on the side of light with his father an enemy.

I know it's a bit fanfic-ish, but it was the best way to explain my thoughts. Draco is just one of those mysterious, unpredictable characters that's what makes him so intertesting and one that anybody could come up with any senario with Draco and it would be possible, because we just have no idea.
Its an original and interesting idea, but even though he did not kill Dumbledore(he is a coward) I do not believe that Draco has much good in him. I dont think he felt any guilt about Dumbledore being killed or letting the death eaters into the castle. People still debate whether Snape is good or bad because he has given reason for people to think he could be good, but Draco has never given any reason to lead us to believe he is anything but an evil little twirp.


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