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As Clear As Water



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  #1  
Old April 7th, 2006, 9:29 am
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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As Clear As Water

Discussion of the editorial As Clear As Water by Erez R.


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  #2  
Old April 7th, 2006, 10:02 am
libbypotter  Female.gif libbypotter is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

Well written & I admit I'd never have taken the water in the lake as anything other than water. However as much as I'd like to believe you I think Dumbledore is dead


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  #3  
Old April 7th, 2006, 10:19 am
LilMudblood  Female.gif LilMudblood is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

It was an excellent editorial. Very interesting. I would have never thought of the water that way - but it does seem to be the type of thing that Jo would hide so well!

One thing is how come Dumbledore didn't realise that the "water" wasn't really water?


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  #4  
Old April 7th, 2006, 10:20 am
Languish  Female.gif Languish is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

great editorial and really well-written and thought out. i had noticed a while back JKRs descrptions of the lake were a bit odd (eg that it was always still and like a mirror) but never thought that it could have meant something other than a metaphor. very interesting!


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  #5  
Old April 7th, 2006, 10:45 am
dumbydore  Undisclosed.gif dumbydore is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

that was a great editorial. it really makes you believe it was not water at all. even then one thing is intriguing, even though Dumbledore knew that "...[Voldemort] would not want immediately to kill the person who reached this island," why did he drink that potion.


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  #6  
Old April 7th, 2006, 11:33 am
TheMalteseFan  Undisclosed.gif TheMalteseFan is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

I still believe Dumbledore is dead but man, what a GREAT editorial. I haven't read one that good since over a year or more (except maybe for the ones of the Underground lake). It was well written and the knowledge we got from it was very precise. I really believe that that was how Jo wanted the lake to be, because everything looks so perfect in the editorial.


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  #7  
Old April 7th, 2006, 12:34 pm
llama022  Female.gif llama022 is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

Best editorial I have read in a looooong time. I really like the idea of the water actually being the potion--you make your point believable and understandable. I agree with TheMalteseFan, you make everything fit together so perfectly that you practically HAVE to believe it.


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  #8  
Old April 7th, 2006, 1:11 pm
Granger_Fan  Male.gif Granger_Fan is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

That is the first editorial I've read in months, possibly even the first since HBP came out, and it's got to be one of the most convincing ones I've ever read!

It was really well thought out and clearly explained. I think you're on to something there. I don't know how you managed to spot all those wee clues, but great work!!!


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  #9  
Old April 7th, 2006, 1:27 pm
Bigs  Male.gif Bigs is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

Very good, I think you maybe on to something.

A fact that you didn't quote is that Dumbledore didn't actually drink the water from the lake. Harry stumbled and spilled the water on his Face. It is likely that he did injest some of the water, but not a lot. And also notice that the living dead did not go after Dumbledore, but after harry. the one that was standing up. So the pieces do fit together.

I think if we look further in the book, we will find that most of the description of Dumbledore as they leave the cave, return to the school, and the conversation with Draco, can be viewed as either reaction to the potion in the basin or Dumbledore fighting the affects of a sleeping potion. Just how would a small amount of draft of the living death affect a very old, but extreamely powerful wizard? I dont know.

Now, you are correct that we could extend this to suggest that DD did not die, but was in a very deep sleep. Exspecially when you consider that no where was there mention as to DD being examed by any Healer, not even Madam P. How could he survive the fall? his own power? Snape is a very powerful Wizard and could have faked the killing curse.

I want to make it clear that I am as confused about DD being dead as anyone, other than Jo, herself. The evidence points in many directions, as it should. Like a complex multi dimensional puzzle, the pieces may fit, but the picture might not be right because the pieces might fit elsewhere.


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  #10  
Old April 7th, 2006, 2:11 pm
tovarbaker  Undisclosed.gif tovarbaker is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

pardon me. I didn't' actually read the editorial, I am sure it is good. however I wanted to mention that I am quite certain what we saw in HBP was the real potion, I have a feeling RAB was able to reach into the potion unlike Albus and Harry because he had a dark mark. I also if for some reason he did have to drink the potion (or if his little house elf did) why wouldn't we suppose he couldn't replace the potion ?

sorry I should go read the article, I am starting to think that this may be covered in the editorial



Last edited by tovarbaker; April 7th, 2006 at 2:15 pm.
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  #11  
Old April 7th, 2006, 2:28 pm
whatsinaname  Female.gif whatsinaname is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

This was an excelent editorial. But why would Jo go to such lenghts to show that Dumblebore was suffering from the effects of a Sleeping potion to just kill him. Take the full step and say what we are all thinking now. Dumbledore is alive.
Perhaps the protrait is not a true indicator of death as Harry supposed, Afterall what was the portrait doing in the head masters office....... Sleeping!


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  #12  
Old April 7th, 2006, 2:30 pm
cal1  Undisclosed.gif cal1 is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

Brilliant!!! I think you are on the right track.I don't think DD is still sleping though.


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  #13  
Old April 7th, 2006, 2:53 pm
inkling7  Female.gif inkling7 is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

A good argument which now raises many doubts in my mind on Dumbledore's death - faked or real? However I hope this hasn't made Dumbledore a Zombie or anything - living death????? I hope he's not in a catatonic trance and buried alive - reminiscent of Edgar Allen Poe and The Premature Burial and is really dead - unless of course he can use his magic to make a comeback - reminiscent of Gandalf and LOTR which would not please quite a few readers judging by past posts on various topics.There is a question as to who actually pronounced him dead - we don't find out in the HBP and I assume Poppy would have been called to verify death and discount any possiblility of resussitation/ressurection or something -we just simply just are not told. Now we will all be wondering what exactly happened to Dumbledore. My theory is that if Snape hadn't stepped in when he did Fenrir or another Deatheater may have finished him off in a less humane way and then done the same to Draco. Well that's my two cents worth. What do the reat of you think???


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  #14  
Old April 7th, 2006, 3:06 pm
Cryoz  Undisclosed.gif Cryoz is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

Wow.

I thought you'd have somehow lost it by now, Mugglenet. I wrote this editorial 6 months ago, and couldn't possibly wait that long, so I opened a thread about it in the History of Magic forum which, I'm glad to say, has sprouted a 40 page-worth of discussion and theory analysis. So if you have anything to say about it you'll probably find it was already said here.

While this idea seems quite raw in this editorial, it was discussed so extensively and so many points have been fleshed out that I now feel I can provide myself an answer to every little question about what happened in HBP. Of course, this is all speculation, but my ideas are always the offspring of the books' informative text, and many things seem so clear to me now, ideas that even touch the definite end of the series.

So, if you have any question, ask away.



Last edited by Cryoz; April 7th, 2006 at 3:31 pm.
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  #15  
Old April 7th, 2006, 3:09 pm
mdeligan  Undisclosed.gif mdeligan is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

cryoz - did you write the Mugglenet editorial under a different name? I'm familiar with the thread and so I thought maybe someone else used your ideas for an editorial.


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  #16  
Old April 7th, 2006, 3:15 pm
Cryoz  Undisclosed.gif Cryoz is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdeligan
cryoz - did you write the Mugglenet editorial under a different name? I'm familiar with the thread and so I thought maybe someone else used your ideas for an editorial.
Yes, I wrote it under another name. I just felt like making up some weird username when I registered.


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  #17  
Old April 7th, 2006, 3:34 pm
Dumbledoresgal7  Female.gif Dumbledoresgal7 is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

lol. Great editorial! I would have never thought of that and now I'm really convinced thats the story behind it. I'm not sure about dumbledore not being dead, because jo did say someone would die...but it makes perfect sense that it was the draught of living death and that snape used a non-verbal spell to make it look like he was killing dumbledore. that was one of the best editorials I have ever read! Bravo!


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  #18  
Old April 7th, 2006, 3:44 pm
evilinside  Undisclosed.gif evilinside is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

keep up the good work!


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  #19  
Old April 7th, 2006, 4:02 pm
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Hermione Snape  Female.gif Hermione Snape is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

I will have to say that, that was a far better explanation than most people and it would make sense wouldn't it.


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  #20  
Old April 7th, 2006, 4:37 pm
drpepperaddict7  Undisclosed.gif drpepperaddict7 is offline
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Re: As Clear As Water

Excellent editorial. yet, have you considered that Snape may have done Dumbledore a favor by killing him? I am sure Dumbledore is dead. If Dumbledore did drink the Draught of living death, as it appears, then he probably would have ended up worse than dead. Snape may have recognized the effects of the potion, and killed him realizing that he could keep his cover by basically mercy killing.


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