NT #44 - The Crux of it All

[phoenixfire5]

Here's an idea that might support Harry being a Horcrux...

Maybe Voldemort didn't intend on making Harry a horcrux, but accidentally did. Now he realizes what he has done (since in OotP he realized the connection). What if Voldemort doesn't mind that Harry is a horcrux because of what the prophecy said. Remember, Voldemort believes heavily in the prophecy (or else he wouldn't have acted on it so rashly). The prophecy says that "either must die by the hand of the other", so Voldemort believes that he is the only one who can "vanquish" Harry, therefore making Harry a safe horcrux in Voldemort's mind, as no one but Voldemort can destroy him.

It would definitely be interesting if Voldemort knows Harry is a horcrux. I'm just picturing a final battle where Harry is like "I figured out how to destroy your horcruxes!" and Voldemort is like "bet you didn't know you WERE one!"

hahaha...ok I'm done now =)

[Maginny]

Originally Posted by fourth_task

Harry definitely killed Quirell, did his soul split in 2? I don't think so.

Oh, but he didn't. Harry kill Quirrell, I mean. What killed Quirrell was that "He [Voldemort] left Quirrell to die; he shows just as little mercy to his followers as his enemies." (PS, UK paperback, p. 320)

Originally Posted by Alhanalasa

Another thing that I kept thinking as I read your article - which may be splitting hairs, I admit - is that a "tear" is not the same thing as a "split". Murder forms a tear, which may or may not be used to make a horcrux. I got the impression that the soul isn't fragmented fully, just damaged. Then the damage can be extended (via a spell of some sort) to complete the tear and move the piece to a host object.

Excellent point, Alhanalasa! I think this distinction ties in with the distinction between unintentionally killing someone (in an accident or in self-defense) and cold-blooded murder. I believe that killing, taking the life of a human being, damages your soul and you'll never be the same afterwards. But not only doing it intentionally but also using it to create such an unnatural and evil thing as a Horcurx to ensure one's own immortality (thereby essentially living off the lives of others) - that's a whole different (and much more sinister) story.

[bellatrix4ever]

Harry doesn't believe there's seven horcruxes at the end of book 6, he believes there's six. Maline was saying "something of gryffindor's, something of ravenclaw's," Harry was described as constantly thinking "the locket.....the cup.......the snake........something of gryffindors OR ravenclaw's..." add the ring and diary, and you have six horcruxes.

[KARAHmelApple]

Ehy! Glad you're back!


I must admit, I love the symbolism. The only comment I didn't like was when you said that Lily and James probably had something of Gryffindor's on the mantel.
First of all, I thought Dumbledore said that there were no other known heirlooms of Gryffindor's? Now, he could be mistaken (like I honestly believe he is about Nagini), but that just doesn't seem to me to be something he would be mistaken about.

Also, wouldn't it be interesting if he did make 8 horcruxes on accident, rather than nine, because 8 is not a magically powerful number and it would have the opposite of Voldemort's desired effect?

[Darktimes]

Very intersting stuff........The Horcruxes are really fascinating as a plot device and pathway to Voldemort....and perhaps beyond?

The question I have is this: Does Voldemort know that Harry is clued in to his Horcruxes? Did Snape know the significance of Dumbledore's injury after he destroyed the Ring Horcrux? If Snape knows, then does Voldemort know? I would think not, but if Snape is that clever, and figures it out, then Harry is going to need all the loyalty and skill he can find in destroying whatever Horcruxes remain. And Jo has clued us in a bit when she states that the last word in the 7th book is " scar "....Perhaps it means that if Harry is a Horcrux and figures out how to destroy the bit of soul in him, the scar will disapear.

[smuffy]

Glad you're back Maline! It's been so long! But it's nice to see that you do have a life outside Harry Potter!
The editorial may have been a bit of a "dead horse", but it did kind of put things in perspective, ie. what we know and what we don't know. I personally do believe the "Harry is a horcrux" theory, even though i'm not quite sure how it happened. I do think that there is a distinction between killing and murder, otherwise anyone who ever killed in self defense would have a damaged soul and I don't see that happening. Bellatrix makes it clear to Harry in the Dept. of Mysteries that just saying the curse won't work, you have to mean it. I don't believe that the soul totally splits when murder is committed, it just tears. Maybe that means that the spell to create a horcrux is a sort of two-part spell. The first part is done before Avada Kedavra is said (and meant). When the words are said the soul realises that it has to split completely. Then the person creating the horcrux does the second part of the spell to put the soul fragment in the intended object. But in Voldy's case, he couldn't complete the spell and so the soul fragment (somehow) entered Harry. That would kinda explain the accidental horcrux idea. I do think Voldemort was intending to use Harry's death to create the horcrux, but the question is what was he intending to use? Dumbledore says that the only remaing relic of Gryffindor is the sword (and possibly the hat) so I don't think there was anything at Lily and James' house, although it is an intriguing idea. I mean, it is called GODRIC's Hollow. That must have some significance.
I also do think that Nagini is a horcrux, and that it was created using Frank's death. Voldemort knew that the diary was destroyed and he wanted 7 horcruxes. Not knowing Harry was one, he used Nagini. That was at the beginning of Gof and I don't think he found out about Harry until he possessed him at the end of OotP. I think that Voldemort trying to lure Harry to the dark side might make for some interesting reading. I mean, we all know that he has some anger issues...
I also think that the final battle will take place at Godric's Hollow. It just seems right. But I do think we will see the Dept. of Mysteries and Hogwarts again. We have to see the school again. Maybe another visit to the Chamber of Secrets?

Well, they're my theories! I know it was a bit long, but there are a lot of things to try and figure out! Only Jo knows for sure, and we're all just going to have to wait. Personally, I hope we're all wrong and that JKR does something completely different that none of us expected. It would be kind of a letdown if we figured it out before the book was released!

[bellatrix4ever]

Another interesting theory I've read is that the death of Amelia Bones was used to make a Horcrux. I think this would make sense, because Dumbledore told Harry in HPB that Voldemort found out that Lucius had given the diary to Ginny. If he figured out it had been destroyed, that would explain making a new Horcrux.

[Peg]

Great to have you back! Hermione's punishment was the editorial that got me addicted to Mugglenet in the first place, so I've been looking foreward to this editorial for months.

Anyway, on to the really fun part: analysis. (Can we tell I'm an English teacher in the making?)

Personally, I don't buy the "Harry-is-a-horcrux" theory (Dumbledore would surely have looked for something like that and removed the piece of soul on the missing day), but I definitely aggree with you about Nagini being a decoy. Like you said, it's very dramatic and a snake is definitely not Voldemort's style. We also have it straight from Dumbledore that it would be very risky to make a horcrux that can think for itself, and when it comes to the pieces of his soul, Voldemort doesn't take unnessesary risks. I prefer Lady Lupin's theory that the last horcrux was made when Voldemort killed Madam Bones.

That's it! I hope this makes some kind of sense, but my brain isn't quite functioning. I'm low on both sleep and caffine.

[Dumbledoresgal7]

Yay! Maline you're back! I disagreed about a bunch of stuff but what i liked was how you brung(is that a word?) up voldy knowing whether harry is a horcrux or not...at first when people were saying he was, i disagreed because in all these books he's been trying to kill harry! but i suppose you could make horcruxes accidentally...hmm...but voldy doesnt know harry is a horcrux. if he is...i dont know how this fits but now i believe harry's scar is a horcrux but he's not gonna die in book 7. yea i agree that dumbledore was mistaken that Nagini is a horcurx. i just know it. im physic, you see, Im an expert at occulmency..or is it legilemency? (aahhhh spelling!! how do u spell it??? oh wel) well theres my 2 cents.

[hpfttl]

I loved the editorial! AND I am extremely happy to see that you came back and didnt abandon us forever!

[adam_12]

The new post was very interesting. I'd never believed the "Harry is a Horcrux" theory until now.

[enmapotter]

That editorial was great! you convinced me in a way that was really scary, I had to stop reading because I think your theorie is kinda brilliant and very posible, and of course I don't want book 7 ruined for me hehe, that's how good I think your editorial was, Maline. I was on the Harry-isn't-a-horcrux-camp, but you explained the thing so well I think I switched sides...

[beefkake67]

If Harry is a Horcrux I'll set my books on fire and never worry about HP again. I also don't think a reason for a theory should be "because it would be cool". North Tower is getting really bad. Go read Spinners End.

[bellatrix4ever]

Originally Posted by beefkake67

If Harry is a Horcrux I'll set my books on fire and never worry about HP again. I also don't think a reason for a theory should be "because it would be cool". North Tower is getting really bad. Go read Spinners End.

It's not just Maline's theory; and her column isn't bad just because she has an opinion you don't agree with. She had more reasoning than "because it will be cool." Though not as thought provoking as her usual stuff, I did like this column, because the other "harry-is-a-horcrux" theorists haven't explained the theory nearly as well. Read North Tower and Spinner's End.

[lily313]

Wow, harsh beefkake67! Maline, glad to see you back and that your "Real Life" is going so well.

I thought your article was well written and had some intriguing ideas like Nagina being a red herring and there actually being 8 or 9 horcruxes (I don't put Dumbledore being wrong in the red herring category. As we've seen he has made many mistakes - I still haven't forgiven him for all that happened in OotP and his abandonment of Harry - yes I know he's not real -and Dumbledore himself has said, his mistakes tend to be huger than other peoples); I just have never really gotten behind the whole harry=horcrux theory. In all honesty the whole changeling hypothesis makes my head ache, but it would be cool to have it end the way you say, then again I'm hoping no one guesses or gets close to guessing as I want to be completely surprised by the twist (yes of course there's a twist).

Well, welcome back and I hope you find some inspiration to keep writing, as like many of the others it was your column that hooked me to mugglenet. Enjoy your new job and life with your beau.

[Sheikgoddess]

It would be funny to see beefkake67 burn her/his books if it did turn out that way. I'm not sure if his scar is a horcrux or not, but in terms of the horcruxes I really do think we will see some of the 'random' searches of horcruxes. One will definitely by something of Ravenclaw's. I just get the sense that there is so much more to find out about Ravenclaw. We've gotten very little information about her and her house through out the entire series and I think we will finally find out more about her in book 7

[SusanBones]

Originally Posted by negaprion

I think I'm in the minority, but I do think the snake is a horcrux. It is because of something voldemort said in the openning chapter of GOF that wasn't explained until HBP. It was something like - one more death and then my plan can begin.... or something like that. Then he personally kills the groundskeeper. This had been bothering me because other than Frank, he didn't kill anyone. And why would he want to kill Frank? If he needed to make a horcrux (to bring the total soul pieces to 7) before he faced Harry, this makes sense. At the time he didn't yet know the diary was gone. Which leaves me wondering about Amelia Bones' death. I think if there's a red herring, it is that by the end, Harry will have to destroy the horcrux that replaced the diary.

This is a good thought. I have always wondered what Voldemort meant when he said "one more death", so he may have been referring to his plan to make 6 horcruxes, rather than the plan to bring Harry to the graveyard.

There are a lot of reasons that I don't think that Harry is a horcrux, but one of them has to do with the basic themes that JK Rowling is presenting. Some of them are:
a. love is a more powerful force than hate (or evil)
b. page 511-US edition-HBP- "he (Voldemort) never paused to understand the incomparable power of a soul that is untarnished and whole."
c. it is our choices that make us what we are

She also is going to work the following into the story:
a. the gleam of triumph (GoF)
b. Wormtail's debt to Harry
c. from page 512-US edition-HBP- "But he understood at last what Dumbledore had been trying to tell him. It was, he thought, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head held high. ..... that there was all the difference in the world."
d. page 509- "It will take uncommon skill and power to kill a wizard like Voldemort even without his horcruxes."
e. page -510 - "he (Volemort) handed him (Harry) uniquely deadly weapons".

I just don't see how Harry being a horcrux fits into any of this. And in some cases, being a horcrux would be counter to the overall story. If Harry was a horcrux, he would not be an enemy, but someone to be kept safe.

[Jennpurr]

As much as I hate to, I tend to agree with the Horcrux-Harry theory. I dismissed it at first. But the more I think about it and the more theories I read about it, I have to admit, it works pretty well. My biggest problem is that I just can't explain the transferrence of V's powers to Harry and the open channel into each others minds in any other way. I'm not going to speculate on HOW it may have happened, but I think if it did happen it would have to be an accident of some sort or on some level. It certainly couldn't have been deliberate, right? I hate the idea of Harry having to carry a piece of V around inside of him for the rest of his life, but if anyone has demonstrated the integrity and strength of character not to let it manipulate him from within and to harness it and use it for good, it's Harry.

[Sheikgoddess]

SusanBones111 makes a very good point! JKR has SO many things to tie up! I totally forgot about Wormtail (he has been conspicuous only by his absence to quote JKR) but she has all these things to put together at the end. Harry as a horcrux would not tie in to 'making our own choices' i.e. he did not have a choice in the matter. Hmmm, thats just one point. There are so many more!

[Darktimes]

I agree with Susan Bones that there are a great many loose ends to tie together....Here are a couple of others:

The spell Dumbledore cast at Voldemort that was deflected by the shield in OOTP.

How was Grindewald Defeated?

The Missing Day.

The Half Blood Prince Potions Book.