The Obsolete Secret

[navygreen]

Discussion for The Burrow topic - The Obsolete Secret by Hermyone62442.

[Krinkelmort]

An interesting idea that the secret died within 24 hours.
It would explain a lot. The only problem is that you have nothing to back it up. I do believe that the secret is not a secret anymore.

It could be that the destruction of the house made the secret die.
A secret doesn't die when the secretkeeper dies, but it could be that the secret dies when the thing that is kept secret dies.

I am 99% sure that Hagrid knows the answer to this and i can't wait for book 7!

[chey_umbridge]

nice article. it sheds some light on what might have happened and i like what you wrote about the 24 hour time span. it makes sense. kinda says the same about grimmauld place with dumbledore being the secret keeper. they better make sure it's safe!

[kylarat]

Originally Posted by Krinkelmort

It could be that the destruction of the house made the secret die.

What a very interesting thought! We've seen the Avada Kedavra curse do damage once -- in the Ministry of Magic -- but that was to statues that came to life by DD's command. What if Pettigrew didn't run away right away? What if he is the one who destroyed the house, thus making his secret obsolete? I was going to add something about "finishing the job" or "hiding the evidence" but the latter definitely wouldn't have happened if this article is true, and the former wouldn't have happened a) because of the prophesy and b) because of the "ancient magic" protecting Harry. So much for that theory.

But in regards to all of this -- how do we know that no one except James and Lily knew where they were hiding before they sealed that secret? And how do we know Sirius wasn't the one who performed the Fidelius Charm? After all, Dumbledore knew they were going into hiding; he offered to do the charm himself, didn't he? And given that they were all in the Order of the Phoenix together, who's to say a select few of them weren't involved in the actual hiding of Lily and James Potter?

But... wouldn't Harry have been hungry on that lost day???

Great editorial!

[Berylla Chub]

That is certainly one way of looking at it.

I'd like to add something else to your argument. Take a look at this tidbit from JKR's website:

Originally Posted by JKR

The very, very earliest drafts of the first chapter of 'Philosopher's Stone' have the Potters living on a remote island, Hermione's family living on the mainland, her father spotting something that resembles an explosion out at seaand sailing out in a storm to find their bodies in the ruins of their house.

Granted she didn't use the idea, but it was considered. Now we all know that Hermione's parents are Muggles, ergo Muggles could have seen the destroyed house. Therefore, whether the Fidelius Charm broke immediately or faded in 24 hours like you suggested, the house was exposed for everyone to see and hopefully Harry won't need too much help to locate it.

[SusanBones]

I like your theory very much. It is very close to my own theory. Your theory, that the secret is obsolete and therefore the charm is broken, makes a lot of sense. But it is also possible that the secret is broken because the house has been destroyed, rather than because the Potters have been killed. This would also explain your problem of Harry. The secret was the location of the Potter's hiding place. Since the hiding place has been destroyed, there is no secret because there is no place.

[drpepperaddict7]

This is a bit off topic, but does anybody think its possible for someone to make a secret keeper for a horcrux? If Voldemort did that and then killed the secret keeper, he'd essentially make himself immortal.

[CrookshanksG]

drpepperaddict7, they're actually discussing a horcrux secret keeper more at the Spinner's End #17 forum. I know it's been brought up there a couple times.

As far as this editorial goes, I think the secret died when the house was destroyed because Sirius couldn't leave Grimmauld Place because he would no longer be hidden. It's the location, not the person that's the secret. And even after Sirius died, the location of #12 Grimmauld remained hidden. Dumbledore proved that in HBP. SO I think your theory is very plausable, yet so simple! 24 hours after a secret location has been destroyed, the location is no longer hidden. Woolah!!

[kylarat]

That's a very interesting theory drpepperaddict7, but that would require Voldemort trusting someone with that knowledge in the first place. However, what if that person decided to leave his magical imprint as a ghost or a painting? Couldn't the magical imprint then tell the secret?

Any other argument I came up with involves the secret keeper living for a (short) period of time which would make him more powerful than the Dark Lord because he knows how to kill/vanquish him, which brings me back to my first comment. Voldemort wouldn't give anyone that much power in the first place.

Still, I can't help but ask, what if you're right? What if he did?

And my cynical side still says, well, that'd be a find way to make Harry's job impossible, thus negating the need/use for the books altogether.

Or would it? I mean, after all, how does one kill the soul? Oh wait...dementor's do that. So, if the dementor's kissed Voldemort, and someone destroyed his body, what would happen to the piece of soul whose secret is potentially locked up inside some dead person?

Oh the theories can abound, can't they?

[simplybecky]

Originally Posted by CrookshanksG

As far as this editorial goes, I think the secret died when the house was destroyed because Sirius couldn't leave Grimmauld Place because he would no longer be hidden. It's the location, not the person that's the secret. And even after Sirius died, the location of #12 Grimmauld remained hidden.

I don't think this is always the case. I think it depends on the secret that your keeping (are you hiding a location or a person?). In the case of 12 Grimmauld Place, the secret was about the location because it's the headquarters of the Order. However, in the Potters case, I think the secret was more about the Potters themselves, and not necessarily their location. When describing the Fidelius Charm in general, Professor Flitwick did say that a person looking for the person who was protected by the charm could have their nose pressed against the glass of the hidden person's very sitting room and not see the hidden person. To me, that suggests hiding the person rather than the location. But as I said at the beginning of my post, I think it's possible to have different kinds of secrets be kept (location vs. person). Perhaps Flitwick was doing more than give a general description of the Fidelius Charm and actually giving information about the kind of secret that was being kept in the Potters case (i.e. the secret was about them personally and not their location)?

[limi]

People keep asking wheter or not Harry can see Godroc's Hollow, but it seems to me to be pretty obvious: Harry lived there, therefore he had to be told it's whereabouts because as we saw in the case of Grimmuald place, untill you're told the secret by the secret keeper the place isn't simply invisible, it's as if it doesn't exist (Harry didn't just see a patch of deserted ground, the whole space where the house was, was non-existant, the houses on either side seemed to be standing next to each other.). You can't possibly expect someone to live in a house they can't see (or even get into, again as it seems from what we know about Grimmuald place. How can you get into a house that as far as you are concerned doesn't exist?), and therefore Harry must be able to see the house if the charm hadn't lifted, though I think it has.
In the same way, if the spell was put on the Potter family rather then the house, Harry would've had to be told the secret so that he could see his parents.

[Ben24]

The editorial was fair. I think that you have some interesting points. I don't know if it's all accurate, but pretty good.

[kaeluhe]

Hello, I agreed with pretty much everything in your article. The only thing I didn't agree with was the bit about Sirius just finding out the location of Godric's Hollow at the same time as Hagrid and Dumbledore. Actually, I was under the impression that Sirius was one of the only people (more like the only person besides Harry, James, Lily, and Peter) who knew where they were. I don't know why, is there a quote somewhere? But I'm usually pretty good about not making assumptions as big as that unless there was a quote from either Jo or the series. But obviously, that would have implications into your theory. So, you might want to check into that theory.

[inkling7]

Maybe if the charm was on all the Potters (Harry and his parents) then as his parents were his guardians they could see Harry and vice versa but when they died perhaps it would take 24 hours before Harry could be seen by anyone and rescued and maybe that's why Sirius had to be there as he became Harry's guardian (as he was his godfather and that's what happens I think) so Hargrid could collect him for Dumbledore. This then begs the question why didn't Dumbledore want to give the child to Sirius to raise? Was it because he would be safer from Voldemort's followers due to Petunia's blood connection and the charm that was linked to that as well as the fact that Sirius probably wasn't the best person to raise a small child (then again neither were the Dursleys)?

Plus Godrics Hollow is a town where mugggles probably also live so anyone could find the village/town as it might be now after all these years. Anyhow, knowing Harry's luck there's probably a carpark or supermarket or some other construction where the house once stood - after all it has been about 16 years since it was 'blown up'.

[wandaXmaximof]

I totally agreed with this editorail, it was fantastically written and it worked very well only forcusing on one point. You mentioned that the wording of the charm may explain why Hagrid was able to find Harry, and I think that it's the exact explanation. IMO Dumbledore would have covered every eventuallity, including the Potter's being betrayed by someone and killed by Voldemort (Lupin and Sirius both confirm in PoA that they thought there was a spy). I bet when the charm was made Dumbledore worked in some lope hole (probabilly wording the charm to just keep secret the location of Liy and James) so that if Lily and James were killed there would be a way to find the Hollow and baby Harry.

[SusanBones]

Originally Posted by kaeluhe

Actually, I was under the impression that Sirius was one of the only people (more like the only person besides Harry, James, Lily, and Peter) who knew where they were. I don't know why, is there a quote somewhere? But I'm usually pretty good about not making assumptions as big as that unless there was a quote from either Jo or the series.

You are right that Sirius knew the secret. Sirius told Hagrid that he was worried about the Potters so he had come to Godric's Hollow to check on them.

[squzzer]

If no one knew that PP was working for Voldemort, except Sirius, and PP was still functioning as a douible agent, why wouldn't PP tell Hagrid, at Dumbledore's request, where to find Harry? Or perhaps, Hagrid had been to Godric's Hollow and knew the location. He was part of the Order, wasn't he? Remember, Dumbledore was able to share the address of Grimauld Place on a piece of parchment - why could't PP do the same?

[limi]

Originally Posted by inkling7

Plus Godrics Hollow is a town where mugggles probably also live so anyone could find the village/town as it might be now after all these years. Anyhow, knowing Harry's luck there's probably a carpark or supermarket or some other construction where the house once stood - after all it has been about 16 years since it was 'blown up'.

As I understand it, the house at Godric's Hollow was OWNED by the Potters. Therefore, what's left of it now belongs to Harry. Since he hasn't sold it or given permission to anyone to do anything with it, now one is allowed to. It's supposed to be pretty much in the same state as it was 16 years ago, perhaps a bit dirtier...

[Peg]

I loved your editorial, but there's one point I'd like to bring up: Sirius was lily and James's best friend and the only one who knew that Peter was the secret keeper, so he could have gone to Godric's Hollow whenever he wanted.

[Eruvadoriel]

Perhaps Lily--who was good at charms, and the Fidelius charm is, ofcourse, a charm--facilitated the dissipation of the charm in some way?