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All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 17th, 2006, 3:21 am
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All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

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Old version: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank

Quote:
Originally Posted by First post previous version
I mean, if he was able to lift the potion out of the basin with the cup, why didn't he just throw it aside instead of drinking it?
Seeing Dumbledore acting unhinged (more than usual) Gave me the heebie-jeebies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuelpagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrlc50
Dumbledore has indicated that Lord Voldemort has not realized that there are things worst than death. I'm guessing that the solution in the basin was just that. And it provided the base for a pensieve that held the last moments and memories of the inferi submerged in the lake.

The drinker of this potion would be sentenced to an eternity of horror. (This to me would be even worse than the Dementor's kiss; the absence of soul equates to absence of feeling. Unless of course, the soul continues to have consciousness within the physical being of the Dementor.) Hence, Dumbledore implores Snape to end it.
Ooooooooooooooooooh. I like it.

I personally think the potion made Dumbledore remember his worst memories. But I do like the idea of him being forced live the memories of the infiri's final moments of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidney Pie
Maybe the potion in the basin contained horrible memories of all the people Voldemort killed. Voldemort probably figured if he drank it, he'd just laugh and get a thrill out of it. But other people wouldn't be able to stand it. I mean, imaging having a head full of new, horrible memories and never never being able to forget them? Maybe it would drive you crazy. Maybe you'd loose sight of who you were. Maybe you'd feel as though you were one of those people, or that you had died. Maybe you'd never be happy again. And maybe like Dumbledore, you would beg for death.

Now, if the potion was memories, how could it refil itself? Those memories would be within another person now, who is dead. Dumbledore died with those terrible memories. The basin is empty.

But does Voldemort know that? And does he know about the fake Horcrux yet?

Or can Harry go back and set up a trap there?


Maybe he can go back, and put a lot of good and loving memories into the pensive, Voldemort can drink this so he can get a peice of his soul back before he dies or something. I don't know. But he will need this horcrux for something, and he will go back to the room maybe. And he will see the liquid in the basin and think how wonderful it will be to relive all his memories. But then, he will see some happy happy joy joy memories and it will kill him!

But he will die with the memories!

And maybe Harry wouldn't be able to get them back. So he would have to sacrifice some of his happiest memories to get rid of Voldemort. That would be really hard.

That ending kind of reminds me of the ending of the Never Ending Story Two though. Bastian loses all his memories and he can't remember his mother or anyone. But in the end he makes the evil witch feel sorry for him because he has one wish left. So he wishes that she had a heart. Then she feels sorry for him and gives him all his memories back.

But I don't think it would that happy for Harry. He might not have any memories left and he might not be able to get them back. He'd know he was Harry Potter and a lot of people liked him. He find out he was friends with Ron and Hermione, but he wouldn't remember them. He'd find out Ginny loved him, but he wouldn't remember her.

Would he be the same person without his memories?

Or will Lockhart get his memories back somehow, and then once they helped Lockhart they could help Harry.

But if memories are in Voldemort's Head when Voldemort dies, how could Harry rediscover them in himself? Maybe when you put memories in a pensive you do kind of forget them, but maybe they are not gone forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrlc50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuelpagan
Ooooooooooooooooooh. I like it.

I personally think the potion made Dumbledore remember his worst memories. But I do like the idea of him being forced live the memories of the infiri's final moments of life.

Forgive me but I'm not positive this part exactly was in the book (I'm reading GoF for the twelfth time and I haven't got to this part and I don't want to spoil the ending ( ) Besides, I've watched the movie four hundred twenty three times and have the dialogue just about memorized -- I know....I'm slow --) But in the GoF MOVIE, Voldemort tells Harry he wants Harry to "beg for death....."

All the while Dumbledore is drinking from the basin, he keeps saying things like "make it stop," and "kill me."

I really think the inferi used those exact words prior to death....which I'm sure pleased LV to no end.
  



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  #2  
Old May 17th, 2006, 3:41 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Kidney Pie, I had the same thoght on a different thread. The rantings reminded me of repentance. I went further and thought that if Dumbledore has set a trap via the prophecy, for Voldemort, then it's possible that RAB is not dead but in hiding and therefore Dumbledore knew of the cave.


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Old May 17th, 2006, 3:15 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

The potion was enchanted somehow. If Dumbledore had tried to merely dump it out it probably would have just transferred back to the basin.


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Old May 17th, 2006, 3:19 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

I agree I don't think that they would have gotten off so easily if they just dumped it out...


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Old June 29th, 2006, 6:18 pm
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Imagine the drink in the cave was deadly?

I dont know if this has been discussed already, I apologise in advance if it already has but ive done a few searches and ive not seen this thought posted before.

In the cave, in the pensive shaped bowl concealing the fake locket, there was the drink. Dumbledore actually told harry (in response to harry asking "what if it kills you?") "Im sorry, Harry; I should have said, he would not want immediately to kill the person who reached this island".

My theory is that this potion slowly killed its drinker. Dumbledore drank this potion, and was slowly then dying from that point onwards. He and Harry escaped the island, and Dumbledore demanded that he get Snape. At first I thought this was because of Snapes greatness at the dark arts, he could cure him. Then, it occurred to me; Dumbledore never intended Snape to help cure him. Dumbledore intended Snape to finish him off. If Dumbledore were to simply die from the potion, then Snape would die also, because he did not fulfil the terms of his unbreakable vow. I believe Dumbledore knew he was dying from the moment he drank the potion, and this explains why he needed Snape so badly, he was trying to save his life.

This also supports the idea that Snape is a "good person" and not one of the baddies. He did kill Dumbledore, but this sacrifice saved his and possibly Dracos life. Snape also appears to be offering Harry advice as he flees Hogwarts. As Harry casts spells on him, Snape simply deflects them all. He then shouts "Blocked again, and again, and again, untill you learn to keep your mind shut and your mouth closed Potter!" In my opinion, he was trying to give Harry advice, on how to fight Death Eaters from then on. He also shouts "No unforgivable curses from you, Potter!". This I believe is Snape again trying to help harry out. He knew that if Harry were caught by the ministry casting these spells, he could be arrested and placed in Askaban, with no Dumbledore to now help him.

Finally, The idea that the potion was slowly already killing Dumbledore. Was this how R.A.B (Who I believe to be Sirius brother, along with everybody else) actually died? It was said that he was not important enough for Voldemort to kill him himself. And it was said that he also died within a few days of being found out to be a traitor. Maybe he wasnt killed by a person, but he was finished off by the potion he drank?

These are my theorys on the matter, wrong as they may be. Feel free to shoot me down at any point Thankyou for your time reading my ideas.

Adam21011989


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Old June 29th, 2006, 6:28 pm
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Re: Imagine the drink in the cave was deadly?

Please discuss in All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2, thanks.


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Old June 29th, 2006, 6:28 pm
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Re: Imagine the drink in the cave was deadly?

This is a great thread. I agree completely with what you said, and I don't think I could have worded it better. After reading HBP the first time, and I reached the part where Snape tells Harry "Blocked again, and again, and again, untill you learn to keep your mind shut and your mouth closed Potter!" and "No unforgivable curses from you, Potter!" , I thought immediately, he's not shouting hatful things towards Harry, he's giving him advice! So, how can anyone question whether he is good or bad. He did what he had to do, and I think Dumbledore wanted him to. This makes me wonder though, does Snape know about the Horcruxes?


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Old June 29th, 2006, 6:30 pm
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Re: Imagine the drink in the cave was deadly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole
*closed*


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Old June 29th, 2006, 6:35 pm
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Re: Imagine the drink in the cave was deadly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindseyScorno
does Snape know about the Horcruxes?
You might like to see Did Dumbledore Tell Snape about the Horcruxes?, the discussion includes Snape finding out in some other fashion (not just being told by Albus).


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Old June 29th, 2006, 10:49 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

What *if* the liquid in the basin was a horcrux, and that is why Sirius killed Dumbledore. I'm not even sure if it's possible though..


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Old June 29th, 2006, 11:09 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

1. Snape killed Dumbledore.
2. Voldemort wouldn't make liquid that hides a horcrux into a horcrux. If the person dies who drank said horcrux, the horcrux dies with them and that'd be stupid on Voldemort. Or... the person could urinate out the horcrux which would just look silly on JK Rowling's part.


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Old June 29th, 2006, 11:25 pm
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draught of death instead of lake water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam21011989
Dumbledore actually told harry (in response to harry asking "what if it kills you?") "Im sorry, Harry; I should have said, he would not want immediately to kill the person who reached this island".

My theory is that this potion slowly killed its drinker. I believe Dumbledore knew he was dying from the moment he drank the potion, and this explains why he needed Snape so badly, he was trying to save his life.
apologies if this has been talked about before, but i could not find version 1 of this thread. i love these theories, thanks for posting such well thought out ideas.

i agree that what dumbledore says to harry (above) points to something to do with the potion he drank, but not the potion in the basin. this is not my original idea, but i think its a great one: the potion in the basin was supposed to disorient and torture its drinker to the point that the drinker had no choice but to fill their cup, in a blind fit of confusion and pain, with the nearest "water" available-- i.e. "water" from the lake. i believe that may have the only purpose of the potion in the basin, and that it was the "water" in the lake that was the REAL DANGER.

(i wish i could find it, and if no one else does and directs me to it (??)-- i will start a new thread on this theory maybe, b/c i think its fascinating).

the theory is that the "water" in the lake was actually the draught of death... if you remember it had strange, un-waterlike characteristics. the ripples in the lake disappeared unnaturally fast, it was dark, etc. JK also has a way of introducing things in passing that come out to play a greater role later on. in harry's first ever potions lesson, the draught of death is mentioned. and in a potion lesson in book 6, harry and the others were actually concocting the draught! this seems like a hint. if the lake was actually composed of the draught of death and not water, then this would coincide with what dumbledore surmised, that voldemort would DELAY the killing of the infiltrator i think putting them into an interminable SLEEP would serve that purpose! (remember DD also surmised that voldemort would have likely wanted to know more about how that person managed to get that far, etc. killing the infiltrator before he could get to him or her would defeat that purpose.)

it is possible that when DD was sliding down the wall on top of the tower, he was actually falling into a deep, death-like sleep! i have no idea how this goes on to figure with snape's cursing him (or possibly uttering a verbal curse while at the same time issuing a nonverbal to counteract, etc., etc.); DD's flying off the tower (or possibly being caught and lowered by fawkes) and DD's death (or not, if he's not dead). but it certainly opens interesting possibilities. (i for one think DD is not dead, but that is not for this post.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam21011989
This also supports the idea that Snape is a "good person" and not one of the baddies. He did kill Dumbledore, but this sacrifice saved his and possibly Dracos life. Snape also appears to be offering Harry advice as he flees Hogwarts. As Harry casts spells on him, Snape simply deflects them all. He then shouts "Blocked again, and again, and again, untill you learn to keep your mind shut and your mouth closed Potter!" In my opinion, he was trying to give Harry advice, on how to fight Death Eaters from then on.
i agree, i also think those sound like words of advice, and to the very end snape was trying to instruct harry, not hurt him. i think whether snape actually killed DD or not, he did exactly what DD told him to do. i never thought of his killing DD as a sacrifice before, and i agree that DD would have wanted the fight against Voldemort to succeed, even if cost him his own life. but i have a suspicion that just possibly, DD has other plans, and will resurrect to carry them through. if not, then i still believe snape acted on DDs orders on the tower when he cursed DD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam21011989
Finally, The idea that the potion was slowly already killing Dumbledore. Was this how R.A.B (Who I believe to be Sirius brother, along with everybody else) actually died? It was said that he was not important enough for Voldemort to kill him himself. And it was said that he also died within a few days of being found out to be a traitor. Maybe he wasnt killed by a person, but he was finished off by the potion he drank?
interesting. since i think there's a possibility the potion in the basin was not a deadly poison, and instead the water in the lake could possibly be the draught of death, perhaps RAB did go through that process, got the locket, then fell asleep somewhere outside where he was then killed by a death eater. there is still the issue that RAB would have to have lived/stayed awake long enough to get the locket back home to 12 grimmauld place and stow the it in the glass case, if indeed that is the horcrux locket.

thanks for reading and discussing!!


  #13  
Old June 30th, 2006, 12:08 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Sorry, my mind was on Sirius, that's why I typed it instead of Snape.
Bleh


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Old June 30th, 2006, 1:01 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Quote:
(i wish i could find it, and if no one else does and directs me to it (??)-- i will start a new thread on this theory maybe, b/c i think its fascinating).


The thread can be found below:

The Draught of Living Death Theory is reasonable and exciting. I hope it proves to be true.


The potion Dumbledore Drank-Clearly not Green


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Last edited by angel spirit; June 30th, 2006 at 4:41 pm.
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Old June 30th, 2006, 2:25 am
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Re: Imagine the drink in the cave was deadly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam21011989
I dont know if this has been discussed already, I apologise in advance if it already has but ive done a few searches and ive not seen this thought posted before.

In the cave, in the pensive shaped bowl concealing the fake locket, there was the drink. Dumbledore actually told harry (in response to harry asking "what if it kills you?") "Im sorry, Harry; I should have said, he would not want immediately to kill the person who reached this island".

My theory is that this potion slowly killed its drinker. Dumbledore drank this potion, and was slowly then dying from that point onwards. He and Harry escaped the island, and Dumbledore demanded that he get Snape. At first I thought this was because of Snapes greatness at the dark arts, he could cure him. Then, it occurred to me; Dumbledore never intended Snape to help cure him. Dumbledore intended Snape to finish him off. If Dumbledore were to simply die from the potion, then Snape would die also, because he did not fulfil the terms of his unbreakable vow. I believe Dumbledore knew he was dying from the moment he drank the potion, and this explains why he needed Snape so badly, he was trying to save his life.

This also supports the idea that Snape is a "good person" and not one of the baddies. He did kill Dumbledore, but this sacrifice saved his and possibly Dracos life. Snape also appears to be offering Harry advice as he flees Hogwarts. As Harry casts spells on him, Snape simply deflects them all. He then shouts "Blocked again, and again, and again, untill you learn to keep your mind shut and your mouth closed Potter!" In my opinion, he was trying to give Harry advice, on how to fight Death Eaters from then on. He also shouts "No unforgivable curses from you, Potter!". This I believe is Snape again trying to help harry out. He knew that if Harry were caught by the ministry casting these spells, he could be arrested and placed in Askaban, with no Dumbledore to now help him.

Finally, The idea that the potion was slowly already killing Dumbledore. Was this how R.A.B (Who I believe to be Sirius brother, along with everybody else) actually died? It was said that he was not important enough for Voldemort to kill him himself. And it was said that he also died within a few days of being found out to be a traitor. Maybe he wasnt killed by a person, but he was finished off by the potion he drank?

These are my theorys on the matter, wrong as they may be. Feel free to shoot me down at any point Thankyou for your time reading my ideas.

Adam21011989
Great theories i had been thinking this too not all of it but the part about him dying of the poison and snape knowing that no matter what he would die had finished him off before the potion to keep his trust from voldemort and the death eaters he also had the unbreakable vow so if it was his life or dumbledores life and dumbledore was dying anyway... idk just a few thoughts since i just got done rereading hbp



Last edited by hoPinG4theBEsT; June 30th, 2006 at 2:36 am.
  #16  
Old June 30th, 2006, 10:00 am
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

i think that if he had thrown the portion out instead of drinking it, it would not have worked....
and the potion to my assumption was kind of a bogart ( had the bogert effect) so i guess there was no other way besides to drink it


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Old June 30th, 2006, 3:30 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

If the potion was indeed killing him off slowly and Dumbledore realised this, then how would Snape know that he had to kill Dumbledore?


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Old June 30th, 2006, 4:34 pm
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Quote:
If the potion was indeed killing him off slowly and Dumbledore realised this, then how would Snape know that he had to kill Dumbledore?
He probably told him previously. Remember when Harry was spying on Snape and Dumbledore (in HBP)? Snape was getting angry and said something along the lines that Dumbledore was taking advantage of him...or something. I'd check the actual passage but my book is all the way upstairs, haha. Anyway, this scene proves fairly wel that there was something going on between them before their death.


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Old June 30th, 2006, 10:27 pm
GoGryffindor  Female.gif GoGryffindor is offline
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by angel spirit

The thread can be found below:

The Draught of Living Death Theory is reasonable and exciting. I hope it proves to be true.


The potion Dumbledore Drank-Clearly not Green
THANK YOU!!!


  #20  
Old June 30th, 2006, 11:35 pm
Tabetha  Female.gif Tabetha is offline
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Re: All about the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank v2

I think the potion probubly was deadly because voldmort would still have been able to drink it without dying because of his horcruxes.


 
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