Spinner's End #18 - Who's Keeping Secrets?

[navygreen]

Discussion for Spinner's End #18 - Who's Keeping Secrets? by Lady Lupin.

[jkwasny9]

I liked this editorial. It brought up a lot of old issues and clarified some of them, and added some new stuff. I had completely overlooked dobby and firrenze(sp) before. Maybe i fell into the same trap that keeps popping up in the books, that people are always underestimating non-wizards. Remember the statue at the ministry? There was a centaur and a house elf i believe. I could be wrong though, because i havent looked at the books in a while.

[Emerald63]

Another excellent offering, Lady Lupin! Brava!!

Like jkwasny9, I too overlooked Dobby. What a great find that GoF quote was! (I always run the risk of wearing out my exclamation point key when I respond to your eds. ) Now I have yet another thing to look forward to in Book 7.

Yes, jkwasny9, the Fountain of Magical Brethren in OotP did feature a Centaur and a House-elf. It also featured a Goblin, a Witch, and a Wizard. Lady Lupin's comment on Firenze making an able ally to Harry now has me wondering if those statue representations might not just "come to life" in Book 7. Of course Firenze would be the Centaur and Dobby would be the House-elf. We know only two Goblins by name, I believe; Griphook from PS/SS and Ragnok from OotP. I have no idea how they might provide special assistance to Harry. (Ask Lady Lupin, she's good at that sort of thing! )

If parallels for all the statues do turn up we may have to worry about what happened to the originals during the battle at the MoM. The Wizard, Witch, and Centaur statues were all destroyed. This would seem to imply that their real life counterparts might.... die.

Would Harry be the Wizard, and maybe Ginny be the Witch? Or would Ron and Hermione fill those roles, with Harry losing both of them in the end? I'm sure Firenze is noble enough to give his life if need be and, truth be told, so are Ron and Hermione. But readers would probably be much more open to losing Firenze than 2/3 of the Trio.

I like the idea of there being real life counterparts to the fountain statues, especially since Lady Lupin has pointed out just how much help Firenze, and especially Dobby, may provide. I just hope I'm wrong about thinking the real life versions might die.

Thanks again, Lady Lupin. You are just amazing.

[Bowtruckle]

Yeah Baby! I live for Lady Lupin.

Great perspectives again. The only problem I have reading your editorials is that they make my poor little head saw from all the ponderings your thoughts conjure up after reading them...LOL!

[Perman]

Great editorial. And I was a bit surprised actually how many things Dumbledore never told Harry. And I think it was a mistake on his part, or merely a plot device from JKR's part to keep the suspence going.

I mean, in how many novels is there a great mentor which waits right until the end of a series of incidents to divulge something which turns out to be crucial. It's really a cliche.

Especially that 'Harry is a Horcrux'-part. Seriously, didn't the greatest wizard in the world even consider the possibility? I can think of no other reason for this not being mentioned, than a consideration to keep suspence from JKR.

I mean, he REALLY should have thought of that possibility, and if he did and dismissed, he should have explained why.

[ironbrick52]

Bravo I say Bravo.... Love the ideas but I think that Dobby won't tell Harry Dumbuldore's secrets because he is really annoying and remember how he spoke ill of the malfoys in book 5? Yeah
And that

[ExtendableEar]

Another Brilliant editorial Lady Lupin. Keep it up! By the time book 7 does come out there may not be much left to talk about!

One thing I must say is about the question of why didn't Dumbledore suspect that Harry might be a horcrux, and if he did, then why he didn't tell him so. Well, I think that Dumbledore did suspect/know that Harry has a piece of The Dark Lord's soul residing inside him; perhaps even since COS because in McGonagall's office in the final chapter, Dumbledore picks up Riddle's destroyed diary and says "Brilliant. Of course, he was probably the most brilliant student Hogwarts has ever seen." I believe he has just realised that the diary must be a horcrux, even this early in the series. Add to this the fact that earlier in COS during the duelling club, when Harry unwittingly begins to speak Parseltongue and all the other students are scared, who isn't but looks at Harry in an unexpected and shrewed and calculating way, none other than Snape of course. I believe that here Severus realises that some of The Dark Lord's power has been transfered to Harry, and he probably then runs off and informs Dumbledore of his suspicions, and then maybe between them they surmise that Harry might be a type of Horcrux, especially if Severus is already aware of some of the steps that Voldemort may have taken. And of course add to this the part in OOTP with the snake instrument and the "in essence divided", and it appears obvious that Dumbledore does know that Harry has a piece of Voldemort's soul inside him. I guess he didn't tell him before he died because he knew that there was still one person who would, and would tell him at the right time and really be able to help him do something about it. Snape!

One other thing, the UK edition of HBP has a small picture of a ring on the spine, probably Gaunt's ring, which of course was a Horcrux destroyed by Dumbledore. And what does this ring have running down the centre like a crack? A lightining bolt!

[the5th_marauder]

Originally Posted by Perman

Especially that 'Harry is a Horcrux'-part. Seriously, didn't the greatest wizard in the world even consider the possibility? I can think of no other reason for this not being mentioned, than a consideration to keep suspence from JKR.

I mean, he REALLY should have thought of that possibility, and if he did and dismissed, he should have explained why.

maybe he did consider it but simply chose not to tell harry because of not the possibility but the guarantee of alarming and scaring him

[MmeBergerac]

Again, a wonderful editorial.
One more possible way for Harry to get answers, the easiest, dullest and less magical of all: Dumbledore, foreseeing his death, let for him a letter "in case something happens to me", where he tells him something like: "Dear Harry, if you're reading this, it means I'm dead... ",etc, and then "go to the Hog's Head and speak with the barkeeper, who, by the way, is my brother", or "open some drawer in my office and take the papers", or "tell McG to give my pensieve and all the bottles to you", or something like that. Or perhaps he said in his will that he let Harry some great box full of papers that becomes a kind of Sherlock Holmes' archive.
I would love if the letter ended: "P.S. If you find Snape, don't kill him, though I know you'd like. He killed me in my own orders. So, instead, ask him in your mother's name why I trusted him."
Well, this last is highly improbable.
And, if someone dead must come back to help Harry, I'd prefer Sirius to do so.
Heavens! All this is quite crazy. I should begin to write fanfiction!

[Sunfish McCaul]

Great editorial. Your mention of ghosts being the spirits of people who were afraid of death made me wonder if Voldemort, after being killed, would return as a ghost. How much damage are ghosts capable of doing?
I loved the long list of questions too, and agree that Aberforth is going to play a significant role.

[Missing_Horcrux]

The one of Dumbledore's secrets that might be robust enough for separate treatment is the text of Dumbledore's will! Wills were introduced in HBP and I'm betting that we'll hear at least a part of the contents of Dumbledore's early in Book 7, "Harry Potter and the Shadow of the Serpent" (my vote as most likely). I'm willing to bet that, as next of kin, Aberforth will have a role in delivering a bequest to our Mr. Potter. Will it include Fawkes or maybe a letter delivering some timely advice? I haven't pondered the qustion too much but your excellent editorial made me think of it.

[veelavouivre]

Loved the editorial. It completes well the previous one. I like when we have a recapitulative list of all the questions and problems at stake!
I prefer Dobby as a solution to answer most of the questions.

I imagine actually well that to vainquish Voldemort, Harry will have to realize DD's dream of union of Gryffindor/Slytherin/Huffelpuff/Rawenclaw plus one giant (gawp and part-Hagrid) one Centaur (Firenze) one elf (Dobby) etc. Each representing their kind. There could be a general last battle like in Narnia. That would permit Draco to redeem himself partly.

[Gmariam]

Great editorial! The list of unanswered questions Dumbledore left behind is perfect, however daunting and depressing they may be. Each one could be a separate piece!
I think you made a good case for Dobby stepping up to the plate in Book Seven with some major information/assistance. I hadn't thought much about him, despite how many people think the House-Elves will play a big part in the end. But your points work!
One source of information you didn't mention, although I saw him briefly mentioned in the comments: Severus Snape. If he really is still working for the good guys, perhaps he will somehow try to get in touch with Harry, get him information. Or perhaps Harry will go back for his potions book and learn some useful spells there. And if Snape is evil, I still think that Harry will learn something from him. After all, Snape is now the only one who can tell us why Dumbledore trusted him so much. Snape may have information about Lily, or the night the Potters died. So we haven't seen the last of him.
I'm also curious why you didn't mention Regulus Black (besides the fact that he already has hundreds of editorials to his name)? There are secrets there that will certainly impact Harry, and all sorts of possibilities available for revealing them. How about a sequel, "Who Else is Keeping Secrets?"
~Gina

[embememu]

the list was really interesting. i had forgotten that there are still so many things which need to be discovered.

[sriharish]

Really 'mazing editorial But i would like to point out one thing

"If Harry is a Horcrux (IF), why didn't Dumbledore consider the possibility? Dumbledore knew more about the Horcruxes than almost anyone else, he knew of the connection between Harry and Voldemort and he knew that Harry must destroy the Horcruxes and then go after Voldemort. Why would he not try to prepare or help Harry to find a solution to this potential dilemma?"

Harry is not a horcrux mainly because why would Voldemort want to destroy his own horcrux? Why does he want to kill Harry, isn't that bit stupid?

But rest of the editorial was excellent. Good Job.

[hcnbedbugs]

Originally Posted by Sunfish McCaul

Great editorial. Your mention of ghosts being the spirits of people who were afraid of death made me wonder if Voldemort, after being killed, would return as a ghost. How much damage are ghosts capable of doing?
I loved the long list of questions too, and agree that Aberforth is going to play a significant role.

That is funny, I have never thought about that. I would hate to be haunted by that ghost!!

[inkling7]

I'd almost forgotten about Dobby and the elves probably knowing a thing or two that might help Harry. Also Firenze and the others you mentioned.
Good work LadyLupin - as usual....
The person who mentioned Voldemort being afraid of death and becoming a ghost.... god what a horrible thought although the Bloody Baron really only seems to scare Peeves so ghosts can't be too harmful but then Poltergeists seem to be able to wreak havoc. However being haunted by the miserable creep Voldemort could give several people the heebie-jeebies and cause quite a few to have terrible nightmares.
I think/hope Aberforth plays a big part in the next book and is a slightly grumpy but eccentric (like his brother) old wizard who is somehow able to assist Harry et al in vanquishing Voldemort.

[Gmariam]

About Voldemort as a ghost . . .
I don't think Voldemort will, or even could, become a ghost. I don't think he will because he wants to be *alive*: the business with the horcruxes has shown that he will do the most Dark Magic in order to achieve immortality. Nearly Headless Nick tells Harry in OotP:

"Wizards can leave an imprint of themselves upon the earth, to walk palely where their living selves once trod ... I was afraid of death. I chose to remain behind. I sometimes wonder whether I oughtn't have ... Well, that is neither here nor there ... In fact, I am neither here nor there..." (OotP38)

So Voldemort would have to *choose* to leave this ghostly imprint behind *before* he dies. But he has chosen to use horcruxes to preserve his soul instead, and dark, ancient magic from the graveyard to get a new body.

And I doubt Voldemort *could* leave behind this ghostly imprint because his soul is all broken up in pieces. Now, we really don't know what the effects of this truly are, but I think it would weaken any other "imprint" he left behind. That's just my opinion, of course, and I am no Dumbledore

There was some other point I wanted to make, but now I've lost it. . . ah well, I love the discussion after a Spinner's End column!
~Gina

[CrookshanksG]

Great job again, Lady Lupin!!

Many of those questions I hadn't even thought of! And, honestly, I didn't realize there was so many. I do not think we will learn the answers to all of them, though, because of the quantity. Unless Jo does something like she did in the second chapter of HBP. I can just see Harry interrigating Dobby like Bellatrix did to Snape. Not really.

I do like the idea of Firenze and Dobby giving Harry info, and I think Harry (if it goes the way the editorial implies) will use both those sources as well as Aberforth.

I also agree that the Pensive is very close to being overused, and it is too easy, unless there's another spin on it that we haven't seen yet, which I think is unlikely.

Petuna would be a good source only for those questions directly relating to the Potter family. Perhaps she knows what happened during the lost day...

Snape might be a source of more info, but I think he gave away much more than I believe his character would, at the end of HBP. I think he'd rather just sneer and let Harry figure it out on his own.

Hmm, all in all I think the reason we haven't found the answers to most of the questions the editorial listed (besides the obvious ones) is that Harry hasn't asked. I'm sure if Harry really wanted to know the 12 uses of Dragon's blood, he could just ask Hermione. Perhaps that is the case with a couple more of those questions...ask Hermione and she'll know where to look.

[hcnbedbugs]

Yes, I think Hermione would definetly be a good source of information like she always is, but I dont think she was much help in the HBP. Suppose she had other things on her mind... Like Ron snogging Lavender. LoL