Little HP Questions Answered v6

[Freaky]

Originally Posted by Tabetha

Yeah, I agree. I think this is how it worked: Dumbledore, and others, knew where the Potters were hiding. They decided to keep anyone else from finding out they would perform the charm. Thus, those who knew before the charm was performed would still know but wouldn't be able to spread the secret. Does this sound right?

That's one of the thoughts I had. It would seem strange if you knew something before a secret keeper was arranged, and the charm performed, which you would then suddenly forget it after the charm is performed.

This would however only work if the place you were hiding in was unknown to some people, in this case Voldemort.

Presumably non secret keepers could still not bring other people to the house.

[BurrowGhoul]

When Harry went to Number 12, and it wasn't there, then he read the piece of paper and suddenly it was, it kind of contradicts what was said about Godric's Hollow in PoA, because in PoA it said Voldemort could have pressed his nose to the sitting room windown and not have seen the Potters. So why would the whole house disappear? Is it because the actual building is the secret, rather than the people within it? And therefore, if you go to Number 12, even if you'd been there before, you wouldn't be able to find it? And therefore, Hagrid was able to find Godric's Hollow, because the house wasn't the secret at all. He never said anything about the condition of the bodies, did he? Just the condition of the house.

[Desraelda]

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul

When Harry went to Number 12, and it wasn't there, then he read the piece of paper and suddenly it was, it kind of contradicts what was said about Godric's Hollow in PoA, because in PoA it said Voldemort could have pressed his nose to the sitting room windown and not have seen the Potters. So why would the whole house disappear? Is it because the actual building is the secret, rather than the people within it? And therefore, if you go to Number 12, even if you'd been there before, you wouldn't be able to find it? And therefore, Hagrid was able to find Godric's Hollow, because the house wasn't the secret at all. He never said anything about the condition of the bodies, did he? Just the condition of the house.

Sirius father had put a lot of security on 12GP, including making it unplottable. Albus put even more security on the building. I think that's why it couldn't be seen. The neighbors don't even know it's there because it is unplottable.

[EverLore]

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul

When Harry went to Number 12, and it wasn't there, then he read the piece of paper and suddenly it was, it kind of contradicts what was said about Godric's Hollow in PoA, because in PoA it said Voldemort could have pressed his nose to the sitting room windown and not have seen the Potters. So why would the whole house disappear? Is it because the actual building is the secret, rather than the people within it? And therefore, if you go to Number 12, even if you'd been there before, you wouldn't be able to find it? And therefore, Hagrid was able to find Godric's Hollow, because the house wasn't the secret at all. He never said anything about the condition of the bodies, did he? Just the condition of the house.

Wasn't there a discussion somewhere that Harry's parents were the actual things being put under the Fildelus (or however you spell it) Charm? I don't know, after all, how would that work? How would they go to the supermarket? Did people do things for them? If so, how many people were given this protection and who was stuck doing things for them?

Originally Posted by Desraelda

The neighbors don't even know it's there because it is unplottable.

I thought that they didn't know it was there because it was under the Fidelus Charm...because Harry was able to see it when Dumbledore (The Secret Keeper) told him (via the note)

I think that unplottable just means that it can not be plotted on a map.

[BurrowGhoul]

Originally Posted by Desraelda

Sirius father had put a lot of security on 12GP, including making it unplottable. Albus put even more security on the building. I think that's why it couldn't be seen. The neighbors don't even know it's there because it is unplottable.

If it couldn't be seen because it was unplottable, then why could Harry see it when he read Dumbledore's note? It must have been because of the Fidelius charm.

[Freaky]

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul

When Harry went to Number 12, and it wasn't there, then he read the piece of paper and suddenly it was, it kind of contradicts what was said about Godric's Hollow in PoA, because in PoA it said Voldemort could have pressed his nose to the sitting room windown and not have seen the Potters. So why would the whole house disappear? Is it because the actual building is the secret, rather than the people within it? And therefore, if you go to Number 12, even if you'd been there before, you wouldn't be able to find it? And therefore, Hagrid was able to find Godric's Hollow, because the house wasn't the secret at all. He never said anything about the condition of the bodies, did he? Just the condition of the house.

I think there are different ways of making something secret/hidden

I think the Potters were what was hidden, not the house - as the neighbours would miss a house if it was there one day and gone the next

12 Grimmauld Place - it was the building, but I get the feeling that because the Blacks were so against muggles they had hidden the building a long time ago...and Dumbledore added some extra security. I also think in this case it was particular in that it was "12 Grimmauld Place HQ for the Order of the Phoenix". Presumably the Malfoys knew where the house was but they couldn't walk up to it anymore and see 12 Grimmauld Place, as it was the fact it was the HQ that was the secret.

The Leaky Cauldron - muggles just don't see it

St. Mungoes - everyone, magical and muggle see a dirty shop window with a half dressed mannequin in the window

Hogwarts - non magical folk see a dangerous building with "keep away" signs on it.

Originally Posted by EverLore

Wasn't there a discussion somewhere that Harry's parents were the actual things being put under the Fildelus (or however you spell it) Charm? I don't know, after all, how would that work? How would they go to the supermarket? Did people do things for them? If so, how many people were given this protection and who was stuck doing things for them?

You raise an interesting point. I think that Peter was the secret keeper, but there must have been others that knew where they were - otherwise, how would things get done? Obviously a lot can be conjured but presumably not everything. They had no idea how long they would be in hiding for, so there must have been others that knew, but they weren't secret keepers.

[fzyflwrchld]

I pose another question:

If Tom Riddle (as I have said before I will not call him Voldemort because I don't want to give him that satisfaction, even Dumbledore calls him Tom to his face!) was "destroyed" when he tried to kill Harry (as a baby) and he had no body anymore he must have dropped his wand. How did he get his wand back? Especially if the house was destroyed? and how did the house get destroyed? (but that's not my main question so ignore it if you're gonna overlook my original question) I mean, we know he still has the original wand (with the original Phoenix feather from Fawkes) from GoF so what's the dilly-yo yo?

[62442al_Man]

People speculate that Wormtail might have picked it up. He might've been at the House for some reason or on Voldemort's orderers, survived the explosion due to the backfiring of the Avada Kedavra curse, and pocketed the wand to use as his own. It may have been the one that he used to blow up the street and kill all those Muggles when he was corned by Sirius. There are many speculations, none of them yet proven.

[Artemis_Fowl_2]

Originally Posted by fzyflwrchld

I pose another question:

If Tom Riddle (as I have said before I will not call him Voldemort because I don't want to give him that satisfaction, even Dumbledore calls him Tom to his face!) was "destroyed" when he tried to kill Harry (as a baby) and he had no body anymore he must have dropped his wand. How did he get his wand back? Especially if the house was destroyed? and how did the house get destroyed? (but that's not my main question so ignore it if you're gonna overlook my original question) I mean, we know he still has the original wand (with the original Phoenix feather from Fawkes) from GoF so what's the dilly-yo yo?

It's speculation, but some people think Peter pocketed it before he met up with Sirius and turned into a rat. Since Peter was the one who found Tom, it is plausible.

The house getting destoyed was probably from many spells hitting the walls and such when they missed hitting James, Tom, etc.

[Xantha]

If Voldemort's wand was the one that he used to blow up the street and kill all the Muggles, wouldn't those people have been regurgitated when Harry and Voldemort's wands performed the Priori Incantatem? I have heard the theory that Wormtail picked up the wand, because he is the one that returned it to Voldemort in GOF. I think this is a valid theory, but we will probably not know until Jo decides to tell us.

[62442al_Man]

Originally Posted by Xantha

If the Voldemort's wand was the one that he used to blow up the street and kill all the Muggles, wouldn't they have been regurgitated when Harry and Voldemort's wands performed the Priori Incantatem? I have heard the theory that Wormtail picked up the wand, because he is the one that returned it to Voldemort in GOF. I think this is a valid theory, but we will probably not know until Jo decides to tell us.

Yeah, that's true. So, I guess that either Peter had two wands and used his own or that is just a mistake.

[Freaky]

Originally Posted by Xantha

If the Voldemort's wand was the one that he used to blow up the street and kill all the Muggles, wouldn't they have been regurgitated when Harry and Voldemort's wands performed the Priori Incantatem?

Probably not because he didn't kill them with Avada Kedavra - but caused an explosion...that killed them.

[Xantha]

Originally Posted by Freaky

Probably not because he didn't kill them with Avada Kedavra - but caused an explosion...that killed them.

That is probably true. I was just thinking that nothing even related to the explosion came out of the wand when his and Harry's connected.

[unconvinced]

Originally Posted by 62442al_Man

People speculate that Wormtail might have picked it up. He might've been at the House for some reason or on Voldemort's orderers, survived the explosion due to the backfiring of the Avada Kedavra curse, and pocketed the wand to use as his own. It may have been the one that he used to blow up the street and kill all those Muggles when he was corned by Sirius. There are many speculations, none of them yet proven.

I agree with everything there exept for the bit about Peter using Voldemorts wand to kill the muggles. For one thing, as Xantha said, it would have been revealed during the Priori Incantatem and also that was a very powerful spell Peter cast which he would have had trouble with even with his own want let alone someone elses.

[62442al_Man]

Originally Posted by unconvinced

I agree with everything there exept for the bit about Peter using Voldemorts wand to kill the muggles. For one thing, as Xantha said, it would have been revealed during the Priori Incantatem and also that was a very powerful spell Peter cast which he would have had trouble with even with his own want let alone someone elses.

Yeah, I posted above that I forgot about that part pretty much . He used his own wand then.

[horcrux4]

Originally Posted by Freaky

I think there are different ways of making something secret/hidden

I think the Potters were what was hidden, not the house - as the neighbours would miss a house if it was there one day and gone the next

12 Grimmauld Place - it was the building, but I get the feeling that because the Blacks were so against muggles they had hidden the building a long time ago...and Dumbledore added some extra security. I also think in this case it was particular in that it was "12 Grimmauld Place HQ for the Order of the Phoenix". Presumably the Malfoys knew where the house was but they couldn't walk up to it anymore and see 12 Grimmauld Place, as it was the fact it was the HQ that was the secret.

The Leaky Cauldron - muggles just don't see it

St. Mungoes - everyone, magical and muggle see a dirty shop window with a half dressed mannequin in the window

Hogwarts - non magical folk see a dangerous building with "keep away" signs on it.



You raise an interesting point. I think that Peter was the secret keeper, but there must have been others that knew where they were - otherwise, how would things get done? Obviously a lot can be conjured but presumably not everything. They had no idea how long they would be in hiding for, so there must have been others that knew, but they weren't secret keepers.

I think the fact that you couldn't see 12 Grimmauld Place at all unless Dumbledore told you was because of the enchantments put on it, and the Fidelius charm really just prevented you from telling anyone else about it. But I'm not sure.

Suppose Sirius had been the Secret Keeper and Peter had told Voldy about Godric's Hollow. Then even if Voldy turned up and looked through he window he'd not be able to see the Potters as Peter wouldn't have had the power to reveal them to him. If Moody had said, "Here's 12 Grimmauld Place" to Harry, Harry still wouldn't have been able to see it. So it seems that one secret was the building and the other was the people in it. I don't see that this would have made the Potters invisible to everybody, just that people wouldn't notice them. If they regularly went to a supermarket, the usual people would know them but would be incapable of telling a certain snake-like man that they'd seen the Potters.

It seems to have been an extreme measure with regard to the Potters though - I wonder what happened that made them suddenly decide to do it? After all, they'd been spied on for a year and resisted Voldemort 3 times- why cast the Fidelius Charm just a week or so before Voldy attacked? It sounds as though they got some information that Voldy was coming for them.

[BurrowGhoul]

Originally Posted by EverLore

Wasn't there a discussion somewhere that Harry's parents were the actual things being put under the Fildelus (or however you spell it) Charm? I don't know, after all, how would that work? How would they go to the supermarket? Did people do things for them? If so, how many people were given this protection and who was stuck doing things for them?

They're wizards, silly! They don't need to go to the store!

[Alastor]

Please read, and follow, the rules listed in post #1 of this thread! Or...

We don't call other members 'silly'.

[remuslupin0123]

I was wondering if Fred and George did have the Marauders' Map in Harry's first year, why couldn't they see Voldemort on it? Although there are a lot of people on it, it does say in the first book that they often picked on Professor Quirell. So I don't think that seeing Quirell on it was a problem.

[62442al_Man]

Originally Posted by remuslupin0123

I was wondering if Fred and George did have the Marauders' Map in Harry's first year, why couldn't they see Voldemort on it? Although there are a lot of people on it, it does say in the first book that they often picked on Professor Quirell. So I don't think that seeing Quirell on it was a problem.

PoA, The Marauder's Map "Well . . . when we were in our first year, Harry -- young, carefree, and innocent --" [Then George tells Harry that he found the Marauder's Map in the "Confiscated and Highly Dangerous" cabinet in Filch's office.]

So, yes, Fred and Geroge did have it in Harry's first year; in fact, they had it in their first year.

Voldemort was sharing a body with Quirrell, so naturally, Quirrell being the owner of the body, his name showed up on the map and not Voldemort's.

And by the way, you sort of don't need the map to pick on someone; it just helps a bit .