Underground Lake #36 - Cryptic Characters, Part 4: Checkmate

[navygreen]

Discussion for The Underground Lake #36 - Cryptic Characters, Part 4: Checkmate by Brandon Ford.

[Gryffinpuff]

Bravo!!

I always love reading your column, and I especially enjoyed this installment about Ron. It never occured to me that Ron may actually die in the final battle until just recently, and the mere thought nearly sent me into hysterics. I've been preparing myself for the possibility of Harry dying since book 5, but Ron? NEVER!!

I too am of the thought that Ron's day will come. It is interesting to think that he "peaked" in book one. I think Jo did this on purpose. It was important for Ron to put himself out there as a true friend, someone who is there for Harry no matter what, while ultimately realizing he's going to be always standing in his shadow. This scene represents Ron: Loyal to a fault, even when desperately wishing for the limelight. The rest of the time, in my opinion, was almost playing into Ron's personality. His moments of greatness are missed, so that the reader can easily discredit him. We are supposed to think of him as Harry's best friend, his second. We know he is capable of greatness, but Harry has to be the focus, leaving Ron "in the shadows."

I think whatever he does in book 7, its going to be something so great, that we needed to overlook him for the true greatness of the act to set in. When Harry does something impressive, I think, oh, well, it's Harry Potter. We see Harry doing amazing things all the time (in quidditch, in battle, even in lessons from time to time). When Ron finally steps up, we won't have a barrage of memories to say, "well, he is always doing things like that." Ron will finally get his wish. Whatever he does, its going to take him out of the shadows and finally give him the recognition (both from the readers and the wizarding world) that he richely deserves. It's his reward for years of faithful service to Harry, not to mention that once he has some confidence in himself, he'll finally be able to have a relationship with Hermione

[misskneazle]

Thanks for this. Being that Ron is one of my favorite characters(well all of the trio are on that list), it's nice to see him as the focus of an editorial that shows him in a positive light, lots of people dont seem to like him, but I love him to pieces and hope that he will get his "moment in time" so to speak, I cant wait for book seven, I know it's time for all of my favs to shine....

GO GOOD GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!! LONG LIVE THE KING!!!

[Krinkelmort]

Great Editorial, I also considerd Ron dying because of the game of chess but lately I believe it's more a foreshadowing to Cedric dying (I believe in the theory: 'tasks stand for books') .

And yes i completely agree that Ron's talents are going to bloom in book 7. Just once in book 1 is not nearly good enough is it? You've brought up some great points especially the part in which you state that Ron has actually done some very great things, but at those moments WE didn't see it!

And yes i think his love for Hermione will play a big role in it. It will possibly become a 'boy rescues girl' thing. I wouldn't be surprised of that happens.

But I think i do know how Ron and Hermione's talents are going to bloom in book 7. The trio will have to destroy all the horcruxes, I think that the trio will play a big role in either of them.

locket-->Harry
cup-->Ron
unknown object (ravenclaw)--> Hermione
nagini-->Ginny

I've got nothing to prove it, but I think that's about how it goes.

One thing i don't agree with is that the final battle will take place in Azkaban. I think the final battle will take place at Hogwarts, because that's what the serie is actually about isn't it?

[Irina]

Amazing I love it. Underground Lake is my favorite


Can I make a request? Do Hermione next

btw I agree with Krinkelmort, I think the final battle will be at Hogwarts!

[ginevraluna]

That was really interesting, the end was my favourite part (I'm relieved because Ron probably won't die )

Krinkelmort -- I think you could be right about the Harry locket, Ron cup, Hermione unknown object, Ginny Nagini theory. And I think maybe Luna and/or Neville will join the trio (plus Ginny) for the Great Horcrux Hunt (GHH for short )

LONG LIVE THE WEASLEYS PLUS HARRY PLUS HERMIONE!!!!! (hopefully they will become Weasleys soon enough)

[hpfttl]

I thought it was brilliant how you pointed out the various personal vendettas between the different characters such as bill, lupin against fenrir greyback and it was a great insight into ron's possible purpose in the last book. I was also very glad to read a positive point of view as opposed to the usual die-to-save-harry-and-the-rest-of-the-world perspective of ron's final purpose. Great article! cant wait until the next one!

[Perman]

Great to see a pro-Ron editorial, as he is one of the best characterers in the HP universe.

I believe that if not the final battle, a battle will be fought in the ministry, as both veil and the door are too cryptic to not have significance. Of course, one could say that the door just had the function too warn the readers of how powerful love is, but I hope it is more.

[norway]

BOOK THREE - Ron broke his leg... or rather, Sirius broke Ron's leg. Though he was present in the first part of the final confrontation (though completely incapacitated and frankly, useless), he had to sit out the time-turning portion of the climax.
USELESS?!!!!
If my memory serves me correctly, Ron pushed harry out of the way, after the initial pounce of sirius to disarm harry (who was drawing his wand out for defense).

"Ron was on his feet. As the dog sprang back towards them, he pushed Harry aside; the dog's jaws fastened instead around Ron's outreched arm."

SO he did push harry out the way on the second bound and took the brunt of it, a small act, but one so full of sacrifice that, to me, it was a action that showed Ron's heart. Of course he didnot know sirius was trying to get him, he still thought harry was in danger and he stood by him. Also he stood by harry during the confronation in the shrieking shack, even when his leg was badly broken, he even drew his wand on snape (but i dont think that was too much of an effort).


Nice editorial, and i think ron will definantly live. If he doesnt, i'll deny it and create my own happy ending. I just love him too much (although he wasnt what you call charming to hermione in book six)

[square634]

In my opinion, the final battle is most likely to be in the Department of Mysteries. I know it would be repeated, but think about it - Harry has to defeat Voldemort somehow, and it isn't going to be through spells (seeing as Snape completely owned Harry at the end of HBP). Love is Harry's power over Voldemort, so he has to get through that locked door. There could be minor battles along the way, however... :-D

[ReachfulHP88]

Wonderful article! I agree about Ron, because JKR doesnt seem like the type to kill off a best friend, she goes for killing off mentors and father figures. Go Ron Go!! (and p.s. I am sick of the whole "chess match means doom")
-Petey

[LadyLupin]

Nice work, Brandon! I am so happy to see Ron get some support. As Norway mentioned, Ron did leap in front of Harry. Not only that, he continued to try to help in the Shack, even saying, "If you want to kill Harry you have to kill us too" or something like that.

Also, Hermione has had her share of getting tossed out of the game - she spent the last good bit of COS in the hospital wing, petrified. And she was knocked out in a hurry at the Ministry as well.

Strategy has been Ron's strong suit, I agree. Harry also got better at it, by captaining the Quidditch team. Look for those skills to deepen, as you point out, Brandon.

I don't believe that the chess match in PS/SS tells us Ron will die. I do believe it is a clue as to the depth of his bravery and willingness to sacrifice. I think it is likey that he'll make such a sacrifice in the end. But I believe he will survive it.

I particularly like the fact that you point out that Ron has chosen to side with and stand by Harry. And this has often not been the easy choice to make. Ron has undergone both danger and ridicule for that choice, and yet, like Hermione, he is still steadfast. I think that the real Ron-haters out there seem to miss the fact that Ron's foibles are very human. I certainly see a lot of them in myself. Why are we so quick to judge this character, as JKR writes him into his adulthood? He is, to me, someone to cheer for, because he is so human and his struggles are all too familiar!

Best,

LL

[Lupin4Ever]

Great job Brandon
I've never thougth Ron or Hermione would die and until book 6 I thought Harry would make it out alive too. As far as the chess game goes, I think its there to show us how much Ron cares for Harry. He is willing to sacrifice himself, not just then but like norway said in book 3 also.

For some reason I've always thougth the final battle would happen at the DOM. I think that room Harry couldn't open has got to play a big part in how it all ends. If not the DOM then Hogwarts, but I just don't see it.

I'd also like to see and editorial on Hermione since I enjoyed this one so much

[OtepApe]

Nice editorial. Glad to see Ron getting some editorial love.

I thought about Ron dying, due to the ending of book one. As my favourite character I really hope this doesn't happen.

But I am a firm believer that Harry won't die. But people will die, I would say it's impossible for all the good guys to go in there and not one of them die. IF any of the main trio die, then I do believe it will be Ron and it will be in some sacrificial way. Ron won't just die, he will help someone in his death.

[FeverFudge]

I love your editorials Brandon. They always point something out to me that I missed (Ron doesn't have a personal vendetta).

I am sooo happy that you show him in a positive light. I have read a couple of editorials and people seem to think that if he got together with Hermione that he'd be abusive. Or whatever - I didn't finish any of them. People just hate Ron. And it's so sad, because he is a really good character.

I love this editorial and I do hope Ron will prove himself, but I really hope he doesn't get incapacitated again in this one.

[ronjalina]

Interesting editorial. I enjoyed your easy and humorous styles of speech.

When I first read the title I was afraid it would be another one of those "Ron sacrificing himself in the chess match is foreshadowing his death" articles, so, thank you for not doing that.

I never was a particular fan of foreshadowing. I always felt the chess match in PS/SS was included to show Ron´s outstanding character traits, bravery and loyalty, and to introduce his talent for strategy.

When you look at it, the trio had only been together in the final adventure in PS/SS. Afterwards it was either Ron or Hermione who were with Harry. But Harry was always in the final battle without them. Except in PoA, where Harry was more on a rescue mission than a battle and Hermione had to be with him because she provided him with the necessary time turner.

But in the end it is neither Ron nor Hermione who are at the final battle. This has always been Harry alone.

There is speculation that JKR has done this for a reason. One of which is to show the power of the trio when they fight united at the climax of the whole series, in book 7. To save the best thing for last, so to say. Therefore it is not surprising that Ron has been sort of left out in the heat of the action before. This is not my idea, I don´t want to claim ideas or observations of other posters as mine, but I can´t recall the posters or the thread, so I just pass on what they say, because I agree with their assessment.

[Wimsey]

I would suggest that the Chess match foreshadowed what we saw at the end of HBP: Dumbledore (the "chess master" in the war against Voldemort) sacrifices himself so that Harry can continue the fight. It is just like Ron told Harry: Harry is the important one who has to carry the fight to the next battle.

So, if JKR does nothing else foreshadowed by the chess game, then it still will be considered foreshadowing by a lot of people.

Originally Posted by ronjalina

But in the end it is neither Ron nor Hermione who are at the final battle. This has always been Harry alone.

I agree. In an interview early this year, JKR let us know that the link between Harry and Voldemort will be important to the plot of VII. "Scars can come in handy" just reeks of foreshadowing, after all.

Also, in the end, it is always just Harry standing alone. He leaves Ron & Hermione behind to confront Quirrel, then Riddle, then the Dementors, then Voldemort, again Voldemort, and then Snape.

Originally Posted by Krinkelmort

One thing i don't agree with is that the final battle will take place in Azkaban. I think the final battle will take place at Hogwarts, because that's what the serie is actually about isn't it?

The series is NOT about Hogwarts. It is, on one hand, about Harry Potter. Harry is the sole protagonist in a limited 3rd party narrative. On the other hand, all of the stories have a commonality: they all are about easy vs. right choices.


As for the location of the final battle, neither Azkaban nor Hogwarts are very good candidates. Voldemort will be hunting Harry, it seems, but Harry will be hunting Voldemort, too, after he gets the two hidden Horcruxes. If JKR shoots for narrative symmetry, then look for Privet Dr.: that is where the narrative began. If she shots for plot symmetry, the look for Godric's Hollow: that is where the plot begins. If she shoots for story (thematic) symmetry, then it could be anywhere: the symmetry will be between what Harry does and what Lily did.

Others have suggested that the Dept. of MInistry might be the place, as the "love" room seems to be a major unfired Chekovian gun. That would be a different kind of thematic symmetry.

[saddrummer]

Originally Posted by Krinkelmort

One thing i don't agree with is that the final battle will take place in Azkaban. I think the final battle will take place at Hogwarts, because that's what the serie is actually about isn't it?

I disagre with you krinkelmort, Azkhaban is the most talked about place that we have never seen, it would be great if the first time we see it, there is a massive fight.

Good editorial, Ron will definitely play a bigger part in book 7

[Krinkelmort]

Originally Posted by saddrummer

I disagre with you krinkelmort, Azkhaban is the most talked about place that we have never seen, it would be great if the first time we see it, there is a massive fight.

Good editorial, Ron will definitely play a bigger part in book 7

I DO believe we are going to Azkaban (to get Mundungus out, but that's another editorial), but NOT for the final battle. I don't think Voldemort will be defeated there. It is not important enough for the climax of the entire serie in my opinion.

But let's get back to Ron... I already mostly gave my opinion about that. But I might be able to add some more; you see Ron DOES have (sort of) a personal vendetta, well it's not an enemy, actually his best friend. The reason Ron is often overlooked is because he is in the shadow of Harry. Now, i'm not trying to claim that Ron will kill of hurt Harry (don't hit me Ronlovers!^^).

But maybe he learns something Harry never mastered and that proofs to be pivotal in the final battles. (for example occlumency). Alright, the occlumency thing is probably not going to happen, but it was only a suggestion to understand what i mean.^^

[Emerald63]

As always, another winner, Brandon!

I'm not sure I'm on the "Final Battle at Azkaban" bandwagon, but even so I agreed with much of the editorial. The one thing that caught my attention was this:

A lot of people have stakes in this battle but Ron does not.

No... not yet. But a lot of people think something BIG is going to go down at the Weasley/Delacour wedding. If that turns out to be correct, Ron may yet have a personal stake in the final battle. And don't forget, too, that his mother's relatives (perhaps her brothers?!), Fabian and Gideon Prewitt, were killed during the first Vold-War. I kinda think the Weasley kids don't know about that, but that may just be another "not yet" situation as well.



I have a comment on this as well:

[Ron] and Hermione are like Han and Leia in Return of the Jedi. They have no real personal stake in the final confrontation.

Even though she turned out to be Luke's sister and not a princess, Leia was raised believing that she was a princess and would someday rule an entire world full of people. When she saw that world blown to smithereens in Star Wars, it definitely gave her a personal stake in the ongoing fight throughout all the films even though she suffered no physical injury herself. Princess or not, those were her countrymen and she wanted to kick some serious Empire a*s*s just as much as Luke. But yeah, it wasn't nearly as personal for Han. I'll give you that.



Finally:

Their involvement is for their friend and for the fates of everyone they fight to protect.

Whether it's Ron and Hermione or Han and Leia, I think wanting to be involved "for the fates of everyone they fight to protect" can be deeply personal. It may not have the same sort of ironic twist involved as with Harry or Luke, but it can still sting all the same.



So, a couple little bobbles from my PoV, but otherwise yet another nifty offering! Thanks, Brandon!! Please - Keep Them Coming!!!