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Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II



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  #1  
Old July 9th, 2006, 8:44 am
navygreen  Female.gif navygreen is offline
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Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Discussion for Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus by Lady Lupin.

This discussion thread is specifically for the following sections of the multi-part editorial:

Prologue
Act I: The Marauder Era
Act II: After Hogwarts


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  #2  
Old July 9th, 2006, 10:53 am
m_henson  Female.gif m_henson is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

It was interesting, and probably plausible...but I'm sure some of the times are wrong - I don't have the books/info on me, but I'll try and find out later...
I like the hint that this is why Snape hates Neville so much, but it may not be because he spent so much time and effort protecting him, but just that if Voldemort had decided to go after him instead of Harry then things would have been very different...
Oh, and isn't the idea that the parents of the child had already defied Voldemort three times by the time the prophecy was made? Thinking about it I suppose that doesn't have to be the case, but it seems to be implied.


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Old July 9th, 2006, 12:45 pm
Reini Reini is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Sorry, but I think your editorial is to much fan-fiction. We haven´t any real clues for the relationship Snape - Lily. In fact we still don´t know enough about the character Snape. I believe most of us will be surprised (for bad or for good) of him in book 7.


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Old July 9th, 2006, 1:04 pm
akhe  Male.gif akhe is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

I think everything intertwined with each other very charismatically, and at the moment i can't find any faults in it. Reini u do have a good point that it stems towards the fan fiction side of harry potter, but i think we need to stem towards the fan fiction side, as it gives us more insight to what might have happened, and i doubt that this is very far off the ball.


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  #5  
Old July 9th, 2006, 1:37 pm
RoanKattouw  Undisclosed.gif RoanKattouw is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

A well-written story (like all of Lady Lupin's editorials), but I don't buy the last part of Act II. I don't think Voldemort would've told his DEs in advance that we was going to go after the Potters, since he wouldn't want to make a fool of himself for the seventh time (hey, this looks like the seventh time's a charm ) and probably suspected there was a spy amongst his DEs. I also don't think that there were any DEs present at Godric's Hollow, save Wormtail. Voldemort probably took Wormtail with him to have a hostage in case the whole thing was a trap, and Wormtail needed to retrieve Voldemort's wand so he can return it to him at the graveyard. Taking other DEs with him would be useless. If he wanted to show off his victory to the DEs, he could very well just take the Potters' corpses (or at least Harry's) with him to show the DEs, who would be totally surprised as they didn't know their master had been going after the Potters once more.

The rest of the story all sounds very plausible, provided one accepts the Lily-Snape theory (which is actually a pretty likely theory given the SWM-evidence).


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Old July 9th, 2006, 2:28 pm
Krinkelmort Krinkelmort is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Wow this is (going to be) one big editorial. Although it's all speculation and yes - maybe a bit fan fiction like, it's all plausible (just like all your other editorials). I also agree with the 'Snape-loves-Lily' theory, there isn't much canon but there are certainly clues. There's one thing i don't completely agree with - that he took a bunch of deatheaters with him to Godric's hollow. I do believe Wormtail came with him to get Voldemort's wand, but I don't think there were any other deatheaters.


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Old July 9th, 2006, 2:43 pm
panda81  Female.gif panda81 is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Lady Lupin, I love your editorials! They are always very thought out and push the boundries of what little information Jo gives us in the books. I really like this theory, or should I say multiple theories! We don't have too much information on Snape. Jo has carefully not given much away. His character is probably the most guarded and unreadable. These theories are very plausible and it would explain a lot to do with how he treats Harry, how he saves Harry, and even his treatment of Neville. I can't wait to read what further theories you are working on for this installment. Cheers!


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Old July 9th, 2006, 5:02 pm
Hurricane Hurricane is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

i don't know if this is the direction that JK will go in, but it is an excellent theory nonetheless, and the evidence certainly does seem to support it. now for the real question; when are the next parts coming?


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  #9  
Old July 9th, 2006, 5:18 pm
yappa1  Undisclosed.gif yappa1 is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Lady Lupin ,Great writing all possible except that one part is out of phase. In the book on Snape's greatest regret I believe that when he called Lily a mudblood that was the last time Lily spoke to him. I can believe everything else happened before this regret but not after. Losing any contact with Lily would be his greatest regret.


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Old July 9th, 2006, 6:08 pm
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Hi LadyLupin!

I've really enjoyed reading the first three parts, and found myself nodding and muttering, 'yep', 'that's so true', (and similar agreements) as I went through.

Forget fan fiction. This is a detailed analysis of the facts, extracting the truth from the tidbits Jo has given us and extrapolating plausable explanations where necessary. Dumbledore worked in the exact same way to decipher the Horcrux mystery. Personally I'm loving getting into Snape's mind and seeing through his eyes for once.

So for Psyche of Severus. Can't wait for the rest


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Old July 9th, 2006, 6:31 pm
VivianU  Female.gif VivianU is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Normally, I look forward to Lady Lupin's editorials, but I dislike the direction she is taking these days. I would respectfully request that she post fan fiction in the Fan Fiction, where it belongs, and keep the Editorials section for editorials. Thank you.

I just noticed this little inconsistency:

Quote:
Lily is delivered of a boy. Severus so hoped it would be a girl, as the Prophecy definitely spoke of a he. But it is a boy.
It's true that the "one" is referred to as "he" in the prophecy, but that's not the part that Snape heard, according to the story. In the part he heard, there is no reference to the child's gender. So for all he knows, it could be a girl.


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Last edited by VivianU; July 9th, 2006 at 6:44 pm.
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Old July 9th, 2006, 7:03 pm
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Very good, Lady Lupin! I'm not sure that there's any reason to think that Snape protected the Longbottoms (we're told that "a spy" warned Dumbledore about the Potters' danger), but it is true that they lasted until after Godric's Hollow.

And I think you handled the Snape-Lily thing well. You didn't have him overcome by an everlasting lurve, nor does he break into "My Heart Will Go On" when she dies. (SO sorry about giving you that mental image!) It's a business-like peer relationship and fits with what little we know of Lily.

I've never been a fan of the Snape/Dumbledore/UVow theories, but bringing Lily into the mix makes it a little more palatable.

Waiting eagerly for the next installments!


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Old July 9th, 2006, 8:09 pm
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Lady Lupin, wonderful! Of course, I'm a fan of yours, so I'm prejudiced. Also, I don't know where you are taking us in the last three acts and the epilogue, so some of the problems may yet resolve themselves in the wake of your magic keyboard.

Still, I am not sure why Severys would be interested in the Longbottoms. Voldemort assigned them to Bellatrix, who destroyed them with the Cruciatus curse. There's no hint of the Dark Lord's personal involvement against them.

Voldemort tended to be solo operator. At present I see no reason for any DE's to be present at the Potter murders, except of course, possibly for Peter. In fact, Peter might have gone to Godric's Hollow separately from Voldemort for whatever reason.


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Old July 9th, 2006, 8:23 pm
hendu hendu is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

This is very good, but has anyone thought about lifedebts? Snape owes James for saving his life in school. This is ancient magic that Dumbledore tells Harry when he (Harry) saved Peter's life in PoA. That he Dumbledore does not think VL would like a leutinent that has a life debt to Harry. Snape is an excellent occlumens so he could hide it (lefedebt) from him. Now that the Potters are dead what happens to the lifedebt? Is it passed on to Harry? Is that the reason that Snape hates Harry so much? Sorry for all these questions, your theory about Lily is very good, but I think there is more to it than an unbreakable vow.


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Old July 9th, 2006, 8:36 pm
Chas  Male.gif Chas is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Good point about the lifedebts, Hendu. It's another reason that Snape would not be present at Godric's Hollow when Voldemort did in the Potters.


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Old July 9th, 2006, 9:35 pm
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

Good editorial. However I cannot bring myself to believe that Lily was so friendly with Snape. She must have known that sticking up for him in front of the marauders would humiliate Snape further. She wasn't looking out for Snape at all! Her eye had been on James all the time (she knew that he was messing up his hair, playing with the snitch, etc). She stood up for Snape for the sole reason that although she already had a preference for James, she could not approve of his flirting and his bullying and wanted to give him a piece of her mind. She knew that James liked her (he had already asked her out) and she told him exactly what she wanted him to do (or stop doing) if he wanted to win her over. Lily was no idiot - she was only thinking of showing James that his antics at the time were unacceptible to her. And Snape was not this loner as everyone tends to stress. We're told that he was part of a Slytherin gang. He probably prefered being on his own most of the time but he was not friendless.



Last edited by belsito; July 9th, 2006 at 9:46 pm.
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Old July 9th, 2006, 10:25 pm
simplybecky  Female.gif simplybecky is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

I thought this was all very interesting and am anticipating the rest (hopefully it'll come soon ). I was particiularly intrigued by the ideas in the Prologue, as well as the writing itself. Impressive! One thing though: didn't Trelawney say Snape was eavesdropping because she thought he was trying to get pointers on his interview with Dumbledore for the next week? Your scenario puts this much later in the story. That's not to say that the rest of the scenario couldn't have happened as described (or near to it) or that this gap couldn't be filled by moving up the timeline, but I just thought I'd point out the discrepency.


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Old July 10th, 2006, 1:38 am
mrsweasley5  Undisclosed.gif mrsweasley5 is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

belsito:

What a cynical view of Lily! She has never been described as coniving or devious. On the contrary, she's been described as kind, loving and just. She was probably so furious at James because she DID like him and he was being a bully (in her eyes anyway).

m henson:

the prophesy says "...born to those that have thrice defied him." This says to me that they had to have defied him by the time the baby was BORN, not necessarily at the time the prophesy was made.

Also, if LL had posted this on FF, we would have missed out on her theorizing. Yes, it reads a lot like a story but I think that that's the best way to display this much speculation.


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Old July 10th, 2006, 2:16 am
CrookshanksG  Undisclosed.gif CrookshanksG is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

I agree with several of the previous posters. Yes, the editorial does read like a fan fiction, but sometimes the best way to explain a theory is to put it in a senario, which Lady Lupin has done wonderfullly.

Like a few others, I don't think there was a whole bunch of DEs with Voldemort at Godric's Hollow for the reasons already mentioned, but I do think that Snape did go, or attempted to go. Perhaps it took some time for Snape to find the Potter's destroyed house because of the charm, but once he did and saw the wreakage, then he messaged Dumbledore. It's a thought anyway, and it would explain the "Lost Day" a bit more, if the rest of the theories in LadyLupin's editorial are correct (which I don't expect them to be too far off!).

I like the relationship described between Snape and Lily. I'm not a "Snape was in love with Lily" fan but this described more hard earned respect between the two which seems a bit more probable.

I'm also not a UV fan when it comes to Dumbledore and Snape, and while bringing Lily in certainly solves that problem and does make a lot of sense, it still doesn't seem too terribly likely. Perhaps it's because it is so much like the UV between Narcissa and Snape in HBP. I just think that, in regards to what the UV helps explain, that there is something else we don't know of yet that is used instead of a UV. But that's just my personal idea there.

Wow, there is just so much to talk about with just this bit to get started with! Can't wait for the rest of it!


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Old July 10th, 2006, 2:29 am
blessed_dragon  Female.gif blessed_dragon is offline
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Re: Spinner's End #19 - The Psyche of Severus: Prologue - Act II

This is interesting. I don't agree with some of it, primarily because there are some inconsistencies, but I like the general idea of the editorial. I would also like to state that I don't think that this is fan fiction, as some people have said. It does read like a story but I think this is the best way to write it.

I thought the way you described how Snape felt about working for Voldemort. Snape strikes to me as the type who definitely wants to have power all to himself. I believe that he probably never intended to be Voldemort's stooge. He was probably hoping that he would be looked by Voldemort as a sort of an equal. He would be very frustrated to find out that Voldemort doesn't have friends or equals.

I'm still not sure as to whether Snape and Lily had a friendship or a one-sided romantic relationship, though. The signs could point either way. I'm not sure as to which of the two you are leaning towards.

I also agree with a few of the others who don't think that Voldemort would have brought his Death Eaters along. He may have informed Snape because he trusted Snape and for all we know, he might have brought Snape along but I have a hard time believing that Voldemort would bring everyone along. He prefers to do things so important without others around. He did personally murder Amelia Bones and I was always under the impression that he did that without other DEs around, but I could be wrong.

So, I agree with you for the most part and I will be looking forward to the next installments.


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