Assuming Harry or his scar is a Horcrux.

[Baron_G]

Well, we can't assume the ring wasn't fortified by protections other than the curse that blackened Dumbledore's hand. Perhaps the Avada Kedavra was the only spell sure to do the job.

[ronjalina]

Originally Posted by Pearl84

P.s. Ronjalina, in Chapter 23: Horcruxes, HBP, Dumbledore says (translated): "I am convinced he wanted to use your death to create his 6th and last Horcrux."

Thank you. I forgot about that and I just didn´t know where to look it up.

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm

Canon tells us otherwise. Murder tears the soul. The horcrux spell takes advantage of that tear to extract the soul.

Originally Posted by Idabomb333

Some people claim they think the wording means that the murder sort of perforates the soul, and the Horcrux spell, the encasement spell, actually separates piece from piece. I think that the wording definitely means the murder separates piece from piece, especially considering the section about the Horcrux maker using the damage to his advantage. I think if the encasement spell did more damage to the soul, he would have said something more like, "... would take the damage a step further."

So the killing tears the soul apart, whether you intend to create a Horcrux or not. Then the Horcrux making spell is used to encase the soulpiece in the object (subject). I would assume, in order for Harry to be the accidental Horcrux, that the torn soulpiece leaves the body immediately. Voldemort wouldn´t have had enough time to cast a spell that extracts the soulpiece from his body because the AK backfired and he was incapacitated at once. Which still leaves the question how exactly the soulpiece connected with Harry.

[OwlPatronus]

I would say that the piece of soul would be looking for a body, and the nearest human body was Harry. So because it wasn't quite Voldemort it could wedge itself in a bit where Harry's protection was weakest, in the curse scar. Vapormort himself, of course, would be driven off by the love protection enirely. So we have a soul fragment which has wedged itself into the scar and defensive magic which is kind of trying to get it out. Eventually an equillibrium is reached: the fragment becomes less like Voldemort and goes quiet, so the magic stops actively trying to expell it, and defensive force builds up around it in case. Then, when the fragment is nearer to Voldemort or it's weak connection to Voldemort's main soul causes it to become active (when Voldemort is emotional), the magic recognizes it as a part of voldemort and tries to expell it causing the pain. But by now it's had years to integrate itself with Harry, it's really not going anywhere.

[VegaPotter]

Originally Posted by Fuelpagan

I think the scar is horcrux "like" in that a horcrux is a piece of the soul that is actually severed and placed into an item. I believe Harry's scar actually contains a piece of Voldemort' soul, but the spell to severe it was never casted. That is why Harry is so connected to Voldemort's emotions and why it hurts when in the presence of Voldemort. When Voldemort and Harry are near each other the piece of soul in Harry's scar is trying to reconnect with Voldemort's original soul. Around the other horcruxes those pieces have been "officially" separated and therefore his scar would not hurt.

i know that is a lot to qoute, but i had to do it because i agree with it completly.

assuming that harry is a horcrux, and also assuming that he kills voldemort, that would also mean that in killing voldemort he would also have to kill himself?

[doug_rogers]

Voldemort wouldn´t have had enough time to cast a spell that extracts the soulpiece from his body because the Avada Kedavra backfired and he was incapacitated at once. Which still leaves the question how exactly the soulpiece connected with Harry.

What exactly was one of the first things Voldy said after forming the new body in the graveyard? He said that he needed Harry's blood to overcome the protection. He said, "I could not touch the boy."

Why is that so important?

[Pearl84]

Because it signifies that Harry is permeated by something that Riddle can't understand: Love. But now he has the same blood in him and that will, IMO, open the possibility that he will express some strange behaviour. Think about a person who is taken over by an agent in Matrix style

But where an agent can remain in the person's body, Riddle won't be able to. And what exactly does the protection tell us, that they're about to have a good ol' bernknuckle fight, because they can touch each other now?

To me, it only makes sense that there will be a possession-battle or Legilimens/Occlumens-battle, but that's another thread. And I agree with OwlPatronus, that Riddle's soulpiece just searched for the nearest living body.

[ronjalina]

Originally Posted by OwlPatronus

I would say that the piece of soul would be looking for a body, and the nearest human body was Harry. So because it wasn't quite Voldemort it could wedge itself in a bit where Harry's protection was weakest, in the curse scar. Vapormort himself, of course, would be driven off by the love protection enirely. So we have a soul fragment which has wedged itself into the scar and defensive magic which is kind of trying to get it out. Eventually an equillibrium is reached: the fragment becomes less like Voldemort and goes quiet, so the magic stops actively trying to expell it, and defensive force builds up around it in case. Then, when the fragment is nearer to Voldemort or it's weak connection to Voldemort's main soul causes it to become active (when Voldemort is emotional), the magic recognizes it as a part of voldemort and tries to expell it causing the pain. But by now it's had years to integrate itself with Harry, it's really not going anywhere.

That sounds reasonable and it explains indeed a lot. This is why the scar reacts.

Harry´s scar hurt first time in PS every time he was near Quirrelmort. I can´t remember it hurting in CoS when he was near the diary or later in the chamber itsself when he meets young Riddle. Unfortunately this must lead us to the conclusion that Harry cannot detect Voldemort´s soulpieces - in other words Horcruxes - with his scar. What a pity, that would have been of great help with the Horcrux hunt.
The next time Harry´s scar hurts is at the beginning of GoF, but this time Voldemort is not nearby. Instead, Harry has a kind of visionary dream. What changed in the meantime? Was it just due to the fact that Voldemort got stronger (with the assistance of Wormtail and Nagini) that he was able to produce this "new" kind of connection with Harry?
Off the top of my head I can´t remember Harry´s scar hurting once during HBP. After the events at the MoM Voldemort closed himself up. Failing to possess Harry at the MoM must have somehow intimidated Voldemort. Having Harry´s blood in him was obviously not of much help.

Maybe Harry will be able to use the connection to his advantage once he finds out that he is/contains a Horcrux.

Originally Posted by Pearl84

To me, it only makes sense that there will be a possession-battle or Legilimens/Occlumens-battle, but that's another thread. And I agree with OwlPatronus, that Riddle's soulpiece just searched for the nearest living body.

Bold mine. This would eliminate of course the theory that Voldemort wanted to kill Harry and then make his body a Horcrux. Which I never believed anyway.

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by ronjalina

Harry´s scar hurt first time in PS every time he was near Quirrelmort.

Hmmm, no, I don't think so. It never even gave a twinge in DADA classes (though that would have pin pointed the real villain in a story where Harry and the readers are deliberately misdirected toward Snape as the bad guy...), at least none was mentioned.

Originally Posted by ronjalina

The next time Harry´s scar hurts is at the beginning of GoF, but this time Voldemort is not nearby. Instead, Harry has a kind of visionary dream. What changed in the meantime?

Two things. Voldemort had regained a "rudimentary" body (Uglybabymort) and moved from Albania to the UK (closer in physical terms).

And I know it's already been pointed out that Harry does not acquire the Voldy-eye view until OotP; GoF seems to have been from 'outside' Voldy's point of view. So we have the added clue that either gaining the "true" body or the use of Harry's blood (or maybe both! ) did something to the connection between Harry/scar and Neovoldemort.

[ronjalina]

Originally Posted by Nicole

Hmmm, no, I don't think so. It never even gave a twinge in DADA classes (though that would have pin pointed the real villain in a story where Harry and the readers are deliberately misdirected toward Snape as the bad guy...), at least none was mentioned.

I think I remembered this:
"It happened very suddenly. The hook-nosed teacher looked past Quirrell´s turban straight into Harry´s eyes - an a sharp, hot pain shot across the scar on Harry´s forehead." (PS, page 138, UK paperback)
Of course we thought this was due to Snape, we were supposed to think that But in hindsight we know it was caused by Voldemort´s presence in Quirrell´s body. But it was very weak back then of course.

Two things. Voldemort had regained a "rudimentary" body (Uglybabymort) and moved from Albania to the UK (closer in physical terms).

Yes, that was what I meant with "getting stronger". Although I admit I didn´t think of the geographical proximity.

And I know it's already been pointed out that Harry does not acquire the Voldy-eye view until OotP; GoF seems to have been from 'outside' Voldy's point of view. So we have the added clue that either gaining the "true" body or the use of Harry's blood (or maybe both! ) did something to the connection between Harry/scar and Neovoldemort.

I think it is both. Voldemort could have used any wizard´s blood but for him it was tremendously important to use Harry´s.
"I have my reasons for using the boy,..." (GoF, page 16, UK paperback)
So he needed Harry´s blood to strengthen the connection.

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by ronjalina

I think I remembered this: "It happened very suddenly. The hook-nosed teacher looked past Quirrell´s turban straight into Harry´s eyes - an a sharp, hot pain shot across the scar on Harry´s forehead." (PS, page 138, UK paperback) Of course we thought this was due to Snape, we were supposed to think that But in hindsight we know it was caused by Voldemort´s presence in Quirrell´s body. But it was very weak back then of course.

Yes, that's the very first instance of Harry's scar hurting...from across some portion of the Great Hall. But Harry takes DADA class every week, in a much smaller room, and never describes any pains while in the same room as Quirrellmort until the very close proximity in front of the Mirror of Erised near the end of the book.

Originally Posted by ronjalina

So he needed Harry´s blood to strengthen the connection.

Well, I doubt it would be a reason for Voldemort. At that point it seems he was oblivious to any mental connection with Harry--undiscovered until about a year after the rebirth. So Voldemort wouldn't have been thinking of needing Harry's blood to strengthen a bond he didn't know existed. [But we can speculate on it, can't we?! ]

[Idabomb333]

Originally Posted by ronjalina

So the killing tears the soul apart, whether you intend to create a Horcrux or not. Then the Horcrux making spell is used to encase the soulpiece in the object (subject). I would assume, in order for Harry to be the accidental Horcrux, that the torn soulpiece leaves the body immediately. Voldemort wouldn´t have had enough time to cast a spell that extracts the soulpiece from his body because the AK backfired and he was incapacitated at once. Which still leaves the question how exactly the soulpiece connected with Harry.

I think by far the simplest explanation is that the soul piece was carried by the Avada Kedavra into Harry. It's the only thing that we know went from Voldemort to Harry that night. It created the scar, which is clearly related to the connection. Most of us agree that the scar is not the Horcrux, but that Harry is, I think. (The main reasons I think this are that there doesn't seem to be a mechanism for part of a thing to be a Horcrux, and when the scar was created, it wasn't even a scar yet, but a cut/hole in Harry's head. I don't think a hole can contain a soul piece.) If this is true and the soul piece "floated into" Harry rather than being projected into him by the Avada Kedavra, then the fact that the curse scar is related to the connection makes no sense.

In other words, I think the scar cannot be a Horcrux, but it must be related to how the connection was formed or it wouldn't make any sense for the connection to cause the scar to hurt. I suppose it could be argued, though, that the hypothetical floating soul piece tried to get into Harry and couldn't get far because of Lily's protection in Harry's skin, but could get into the scar and that's how the scar is related. I think that's a little silly, though, because the protection is also in Harry's blood, and the floating soul piece could have gone in Harry's ear or something. Plus, I just don't see how the soul piece floating into the scar because it's trying to get into a human body explains the scar pain.

So I think the most likely way the soul piece would get into Harry is that Voldemort cast his soul piece out with the curse, and it stuck in Harry while the curse rebounded. There are several issues that arise from that theory, though. For example, does someone who attempts murder, but fails, split their soul in the process? Was there something Voldemort did in preparation for making a Horcrux after killing Harry that caused this particular killing curse to project the soul piece when normally it stays in the murderer's body? Yadda yadda. I just think it's pretty clear that whatever it is of Voldemort that got into Harry (and we assume here that it's a soul piece) it must have happened directly because of the curse. A few times, it's even said that the curse created the connection. In particular, I'm pretty sure Snape says Harry and Voldemort are connected by the curse that failed in his explanation to Harry of Occlumency.


To change tack a little bit, I have a new sub-theory. I think rather than the Horcrux trying to get out of Harry when Voldemort is near, the pain comes from the Horcrux getting stronger and trying to attack or possess Harry.

Slughorn says the soul is meant to stay in one piece, and Snape says that time and space matter in magic. Perhaps as the soul piece gets closer to the main soul piece, it is able to draw strength from the main soul piece. It also might be able to draw more strength from the main soul piece if the main soul piece becomes stronger/more grounded. In other words, this could also explain why the scar hurts more in GoF and even more in OotP than ever before. Vapormort is returned to a rudimentary body and moved closer leads to the Horcrux being able to more effectively tap the strength. Voldemort's rebirth makes it even stronger. Perhaps it also tends to lie dormant because it continually fails to overpower Harry (or Harry's protection) and wakes up when Voldemort's soul is particularly actively feeling emotion?

This is all stretching too far, but I'm hoping the rest of you might be able to help develop it. If this theory is basically true, it might mean that Harry will be in extra danger after his 17th birthday and the protection stops. This might be a problem, since he presumably needs to be even stronger to finish Voldemort. Then again, it could make the story more interesting for him to have constant scar pain after his birthday. It could be very interesting if the Horcrux occasionally succeeds in temporarily possessing him.

Another counterargument might be that this theory would predict that:
1) Voldemort feels stronger in Harry's presence.
2) The scar should have hurt when Harry touched the diary, since more the soul would have been together.
Neither thing has happened.

It's possible that it's a one-way deal, where the Horcrux is made stronger by the main piece, but that's too complicated. If this theory is correct, I think the real explanations are more likely to be:
1) Voldemort's soul is stronger in Harry's presence, but he doesn't know it.
2) The diary was too weak to help the Harrycrux.

Anyway, I'm not convinced, but I think it's an interesting line of thought.

[crazy_ned]

Just a thought (and probably a really dumb one): When Voldy's Avada Kedavra rebounded off Harry and killed Voldy instead, were the existing Horcruxes the only reason Voldy survived? In other words, the Voldy we're seeing now came from one of the Horcruxes he made, because the soul inside his body was destroyed at Godric's Hollow. Would that then leave one less Horcrux for Harry to find?

[OwlPatronus]

No, because Avada Kedavra doesn't destroy the soul. It just cuts it's ties to the body so violently that the body dies of shock.

To change tack a little bit, I have a new sub-theory. I think rather than the Horcrux trying to get out of Harry when Voldemort is near, the pain comes from the Horcrux getting stronger and trying to attack or possess Harry.

I don't think that would be possible. The piece of soul would be stopped in it's "tracks" by the protective magic that permeate's Harry. I think it's more likely that it's the other way around: Voldemort's main soul and the fragment still have a weak connection (sympathetic magic), so when the main soul is more active (strong emotions) so is the piece. And when the piece becomes more active so does the defensive magic, trying to drive out this fragment of soul that has ingrained itself in Harry over the years. But that's largely impossible, by now they've integrated to the point where the soul pieces are also allowing the transmission of thoughts. This makes sense, since the soul is after all the source of consciousness in Harry Potter.

So to sum up what's been happening over the books:
A fragment of Voldemort's soul embeds itself in Harry's scar because Harry is the nearest living body and the protection is weakest there, the curse having just hit and the protective magic having been penetrated enough to cause the injury.
Over time, being seperated from the main soul causes the fragment to become less active and to start to be absorbed by Harry to a minor degree. This causes the transmission of such abilities as Parseltongue. It also allows the sharing of information much later on.
As Voldemort gets stronger, possessing Quirrel, and closer, the connection between the fragment and Voldemort's soul strengthens. This means that when Voldmort's soul is very active (ie when he feels stong emotion) the sympathetic connection with the fragment causes it to be more active. At these times the protective magic flares up and tries to seperate it and drive it out, but it can't since Harry has partially absorbed it. So since the fragment and Harry's own soul can't be completely seperated anymore it just causes pain.
When Voldemort actually has a body the connection becomes stronger still, and the soul fragment starts transmitting what Voldemort is conscious of to Harry, since it's fused with Harry to a certain extent consciousness is one of the things souls do acording to Lupin (when describing the effects of the dementor's kiss). This allows a conduit for legilimancy.
Of course, Voldemort learns of this when Harry gets too far into his mind. He uses the connection to send false visions to Harry. He even eventually tries to use it to possess him, but this fails when Harry's love drives him out.
After this, Voldemort realizes that the connection is largely useless to him and that it's too dangerous to leave the connection open as Harry may glean more information. So he uses occlumancy to stop the information being transmitted.

[ComicBookWorm]

Originally Posted by ronjalina

Thank you. I forgot about that and I just didn´t know where to look it up. So the killing tears the soul apart, whether you intend to create a Horcrux or not. Then the Horcrux making spell is used to encase the soulpiece in the object (subject). I would assume, in order for Harry to be the accidental Horcrux, that the torn soulpiece leaves the body immediately. Voldemort wouldn´t have had enough time to cast a spell that extracts the soulpiece from his body because the AK backfired and he was incapacitated at once. Which still leaves the question how exactly the soulpiece connected with Harry.

Voldemort said his soul was ripped from his body when the curse backfired. There was no need to extract the soul since it was already out of body floating around.

Originally Posted by Idabomb333

Most of us agree that the scar is not the Horcrux, but that Harry is, I think.

Most of us don't think that. It's the scar that hurts in response to Voldemort. And we have no idea if a horcrux has to be the whole thing or can be a part of it.

And arguing about whether the soul is carried with an Avada Kedavra got this thread closed the last time. We've never been told that is how it works.

[OwlPatronus]

And I would say that it doesn't. It's "killing" that rips apart the soul, not "the killing curse". One is a fact with a moral message, the second is a simple practicality. It's much more meaningful to go with the first: otherwise Pettigrew suffered no consequences for blowing up the street with an explosive spell.

[ComicBookWorm]

Originally Posted by OwlPatronus

A fragment of Voldemort's soul embeds itself in Harry's scar because Harry is the nearest living body and the protection is weakest there, the curse having just hit and the protective magic having been penetrated enough to cause the injury. Over time, being seperated from the main soul causes the fragment to become less active and to start to be absorbed by Harry to a minor degree. This causes the transmission of such abilities as Parseltongue. It also allows the sharing of information much later on. As Voldemort gets stronger, possessing Quirrel, and closer, the connection between the fragment and Voldemort's soul strengthens. This means that when Voldmort's soul is very active (ie when he feels stong emotion) the sympathetic connection with the fragment causes it to be more active. At these times the protective magic flares up and tries to seperate it and drive it out, but it can't since Harry has partially absorbed it. So since the fragment and Harry's own soul can't be completely seperated anymore it just causes pain. When Voldemort actually has a body the connection becomes stronger still, and the soul fragment starts transmitting what Voldemort is conscious of to Harry, since it's fused with Harry to a certain extent consciousness is one of the things souls do acording to Lupin (when describing the effects of the dementor's kiss). This allows a conduit for legilimancy. Of course, Voldemort learns of this when Harry gets too far into his mind. He uses the connection to send false visions to Harry. He even eventually tries to use it to possess him, but this fails when Harry's love drives him out. After this, Voldemort realizes that the connection is largely useless to him and that it's too dangerous to leave the connection open as Harry may glean more information. So he uses occlumancy to stop the information being transmitted.

I think this is a great summing up. It expresses exactly how I view what happened.

[OwlPatronus]

Glad you like it

[JJC]

Originally posted by Nicole
Yes, that's the very first instance of Harry's scar hurting...from across some portion of the Great Hall. But Harry takes DADA class every week, in a much smaller room, and never describes any pains while in the same room as Quirrellmort until the very close proximity in front of the Mirror of Erised near the end of the book.

Not quite correct Nicole. Harry starts experiencing 'stabbing pains in his forehead' after his trip into the Forbidden Forest. He also has trouble sleeping because he keeps being woken 'by his old nightmare, except that it was now worse than ever because there was a hooded figure dripping blood in it'. When he comes face to face with Voldemort, Voldemort tells him 'Unicorn blood has strengthened me, these past weeks... you saw faithful Quirrell drinking it for me in the Forest'. This is the first evidence that Harry's connection with Voldemort and the associated pain in his scar becomes stronger when Voldemort himself becomes stronger.

The dreams progress from vague impressions through to witnessing actual events from a neutral perspective to witnessing events through Voldemort's eyes. The pain in Harry's scar increases in frequency after Quirrell drinks unicorn blood for his master and again in GoF when Voldemort attains a rudimentary body before becoming an almost constant companion once Voldemort is back in his fully regenerated form. Dumbledore observes that Harry's ability 'to detect Voldemort's presence, even when he is disguised, and to know what he is feeling when his emotions are aroused - has become more and more pronounced since Voldemort returned to his own body and his full powers'. As has been noted, Harry did not feel any pain in his scar during CoS when Voldemort was once again 'mere shadow and vapour' and when he was far away.

I think we can therefore conclude definitively that Harry's connection with Voldemort is directly affected by the level of Voldemort's powers and there proximity to one another.

Originally posted by OwlPatronus
It's "killing" that rips apart the soul, not "the killing curse". One is a fact with a moral message, the second is a simple practicality. It's much more meaningful to go with the first: otherwise Pettigrew suffered no consequences for blowing up the street with an explosive spell.

But we have no firm evidence that Pettigrew's soul was torn do we? No one in the books has ever commented on this directly. He killed 12 people in one go. Did his soul shred into 13 pieces in an instant? I appreciate the moral aspect, that any murder tears the soul, but I don't think we can be entirely certain that this is the case.

Let's look again at what Slughorn actually says about how to tear one's soul: 'By an act of evil - the supreme act of evil. By committing murder. Killing rips the soul apart.' It is interesting that he switches from specifically stating that murder is required to using the word 'killing'. Suppose for a moment that what Slughorn is actually referring to is not murder or killing in general, but specifically the use of the Avada Kedavra curse. This is the 'killing curse'. It has one function; to murder. It must be used to kill deliberately. Until Harry nobody had ever survived being hit by this curse, so as far as Slughorn is concerned using this curse on someone is 'the supreme act of evil', it is to commit murder. Now we know 'Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it' (and there's that word 'bit' again). What if that 'powerful bit of magic' is the requirement to rip one's soul apart or at the very least the requirement to willingly accept this as a consequence of the curse hitting another living creature. We are told that the curse is accompanied by 'a rushing sound, as though a vast invisible something was soaring through the air'. Could that 'vast invisible something' be a part of the caster's soul? I for one find it mighty suspicious that to date JKR has avoided explaining these aspects of the curse when it was the one that resulted in the bond between Harry and Voldemort.

[ComicBookWorm]

Voldemort killed Hepzibah Smith with poison. He used that murder for the Hufflepuff cup.

All JKR did was vary her language use in a different sentence. Writers do that so their sentences don't sound monotonous. Slughorn said murder. He did not even mention the killing curse. Of course the killing curse murders: you have to kill to murder.

OotP, The Centaur and the Sneak As Dumbledore spoke, Harry heard a rustle behind him and rather thought Kingsley whispered something. He could have sworn, too, that he felt something brush against his side, a gentle something like a draught or bird wings, but looking down he saw nothing there.

Here Harry felt the memory charm for Marietta brush past him. It seems that other spells have tangible effects.

[Wimsey]

It would be inconsistent with the canon if acts of murder alone separated torn pieces from the rest of the soul for two reasons. First, Voldemort has murdered enough for an army of Inferi, or so Dumbledore says. If that were so, then there should be dozens of fragments of his soul floating about Godric's Hollow, when the soul lost its main host.

Second, Dumbledore attributes Voldemort's physical transformation to the damage to the soul caused by Horcruxes. He calls this something beyond the usual evil. However, there is no indication of any of this transformation in any of the Death Eaters, many of whom must have been mass murderers. This includes Pettigrew, who murdered over a dozen people with one fell swoop.

So, making a Horcrux does something to the soul beyond the damage done by murder alone

The idea of murder or other sins damaging the soul is an old one: in many old tales, sinners who see their souls see something ragged, torn and filthy, or perceive a sick, leprous person. It is all there, but it is battered looking. JKR seems to be inspired by these sorts of stories, so this is relevant. Of course, in many of these traditions, one can "mend" the soul through acts of contrition, etc. Religions such as Christianity are founded on the idea that one can "heal" one's soul, after all, and JKR is a Christian.

Originally Posted by JJC

Not quite correct Nicole. Harry starts experiencing 'stabbing pains in his forehead' after his trip into the Forbidden Forest.

The incident that Nicole cites take place before Harry's trip to the Forbidden Forest. I think that the opening feast was the first time that he felt his scar hurt.

Originally Posted by JJC

But we have no firm evidence that Pettigrew's soul was torn do we? No one in the books has ever commented on this directly. He killed 12 people in one go. Did his soul shred into 13 pieces in an instant? I appreciate the moral aspect, that any murder tears the soul, but I don't think we can be entirely certain that this is the case.

Given what we know, it is most likely that Pettigrew has several tears in his soul, for those 13 and for Cedric Diggory. JKR does not make it clear how complicity in murder affects the soul, so we cannot state whether James murder affected Pettigrew's soul like that.

Originally Posted by crazy_ned

Just a thought (and probably a really dumb one): When Voldy's Avada Kedavra rebounded off Harry and killed Voldy instead, were the existing Horcruxes the only reason Voldy survived? In other words, the Voldy we're seeing now came from one of the Horcruxes he made, because the soul inside his body was destroyed at Godric's Hollow. Would that then leave one less Horcrux for Harry to find?

In addition to what OwlPatronus wrote, the main soul in the body that died at Godric's Hollow was all that was left of Voldemort. He lied at the Graveyard about not knowing what he was: Slughorn had told him years before. Vapourmort was just a soul.


I've been reading back, but cannot find this topic resumed. Presumably, Voldemort should be able to remove his soul fragment from Harry and put it someplace more trustworthy. After all, if he could remove it from his own body, then it follows that he can (somehow) identify a particular fragment and manipulate it.

This would explain why Voldemort has forbidden the DEs from killing Harry: Voldemort has realized that Harry has a piece of his (Voldemort's) soul, and he wants to retrieve it before blasting Harry with one last Avada Kedavra.

This opens up a non-arbitrary way for Harry to survive: namely, if Harry learns along the way how this spell works, and basically does this himself in the end.