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The Keys to His Soul



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  #1  
Old July 16th, 2006, 6:04 am
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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The Keys to His Soul

Discussion of the editorial The Keys to His Soul by Maya.


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  #2  
Old July 16th, 2006, 7:41 am
ptrut12345  Undisclosed.gif ptrut12345 is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

Interesting thoughts. I always thought Dumbledore had had the sword in his office before Harry pulled it from the hat. I could be wrong, I suppose. I can't find any canon, so far, to dispell or confirm this. What gets me is that Dumbledore didn't really act surprised to see the sword with Harry when he came up out of the Chamber. Anyone have firm evidence on this?


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Old July 16th, 2006, 8:12 am
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

That's a brilliant theory. You tied a lot of tiny details together in a very convincing way (like the abduction of Florean Fortescue, e.g. ).



There doesn't seem to be a single hole in your theory. It provides answers for a lot of questions, like why Voldemort hadn't checked on the Locket by now.

I'm not entirely sure the key-Horcrux would be the only way to get to the next one. After all, the Potion could also be drunk, and that's what Dumbledore did. I think Voldemort left this option open as a last resort. He would have used an Imperiused person to drink it, of course. But I think the idea of the four Founder-Horcruxes being connected in a way only he - presumbably - knew and could use would appeal to Voldemort. It would make things a lot easier for Harry if he could find out how it worked. But the question is: how?

Random off-spin: If your theory is correct, could R.A.B. have known that he had to use the Cup to get to the Locket? Without realizing the Cup's a Horcrux as well?


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Old July 16th, 2006, 8:31 am
Tami  Female.gif Tami is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

I really like this theory and could see it happening. I too was under the impression the sword was in Dumbledore's office before it came out of the hat, but as mentioned above I guess that isn't cannon.

The one thing I wonder about is RAB. How did he pentrate Voldemort defenses around the locket? Did he have the cup? Was he instructed to hide the locket by LV? Did he leave the potion Voldemort intended to be there or a new one?

But once again awesome job, I am now convinced some type of key system will come into play in Harry's quest.


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Old July 16th, 2006, 8:31 am
Tabari  Undisclosed.gif Tabari is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

My god, I really like this. Um, you wouldn't mind if I purloined parts of this theory for a fanfic-in-progress? With linked credit, of course?


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Old July 16th, 2006, 8:40 am
blessed_dragon  Female.gif blessed_dragon is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

Excellent theory. I've never thought of the Horcruxes being keys to access other Horcruxes but it sounds exactly how Voldemort would opperate. It's really something stupidly simple and, being the confident wizard that Voldemort is, he is probably sure that nobody else would think that he would think of something so simple. It all makes so much sense - it seems so simple, really. Of course, I'm just wondering where Voldemort would've gotten the sword from initially. Unlike some of the others, I never figured that the sword had been in Dumbledore's office beforehand. I never really had an idea as to where the sword was, to be quite honest, but now I'm definitely going to have to think on it.


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Old July 16th, 2006, 8:53 am
Dyrnwyn  Undisclosed.gif Dyrnwyn is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

Personally I think the sword must've been in the hat all along, until Harry got it out. After all, as the hat itself mentions in one of its songs, it too was a possession of Godric Gryffindor. Dumbledore said something like "Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out" which has always led me to believe that Godric put it there to help someone worthy in the future. After reading this, however, it has occurred to me as a possibility that Dumbledore put it there for safekeeping, being well aware that even if Voldemort put the hat on, he could not retrieve the sword because he's evil. The only problem with this theory is that if true, why wouldn't Dumbledore have put it back in afterwards? I know I just raised and slammed my own theory, but I just thought it would save time if the suggesting and shooting down were both done at the same time. Feel free to go on with your lives.


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Old July 16th, 2006, 8:55 am
zanaboo  Female.gif zanaboo is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the editorial
Be lucky enough to discover where Ravenclaw’s relic is hidden before he discovers where Hufflepuff’s cup is hidden. (Hey, it’s a 50/50 chance. It wouldn’t take that much luck.)
Perhaps I've just failed to notice tons of discussion about it in the forums, but this line in the editorial made me realize a couple of things...


Harry already knows how to locate all the horcruxes. He can use the same method he used to find the Philosopher's Stone - just look in the Mirror of Erised.

Voldemort thought it would increase his prestige - maybe he even thought it would prove that he's the greatest wizard there has ever been - if he made horcruxes out of the Founders' relics. But remember Arthur Weasley's warning about magical objects that can think for themselves? Voldy obviously didn't consider the possibility that the Founders' relics might have the mental wherewithal to actively rebel against having a bit of his soul stuck in them.

If you're right about Voldy having the sword with him at Godric's Hollow, you've just provided a possible solution to a mystery I've been dwelling on for some time now. Why did Percy Weasley receive a Special Award for services to the School (as we know from the trophy case at jkrowling.com)? Maybe 'Scabbers' led Percy to the sword, and Percy, seeing Gryffindor's name on it, and always on the look-out for ways to increase his prestige, took it to Dumbledore.

(Sorry about the large font size. I have no idea how that happened, or how to fix it.)



Last edited by zanaboo; July 16th, 2006 at 9:13 am.
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  #9  
Old July 16th, 2006, 9:22 am
witch007  Female.gif witch007 is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

That's interesting about the Mirror of Erised but I think Harry would see Voldemort dead as his heart's desire. I even seem to remember an interview with Jo where she said it, though I'm not sure.

BTW great editorial I loved it!!!

Concerning the sword, in the memory where Voldemort comes to DD's office Harry notes that 'The one difference between the present-day office and this one was that it was snowing in the past.' Which would mean the sword was there or it might mean nothing because there is 1 difference, only a few paragraphs later: 'Dumbledore stood and swept over to the cabinet where he now kept the Pensieve, but which then was full of bottles.'


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Old July 16th, 2006, 10:49 am
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

A sequential locking mechanism. Definitely an idea that the Dark Lord would approve of. It has the right kind of tricky feel about it too. Good editorial.

Harry Potter and the Punch Bowl of Doom, 7th book anyone?


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  #11  
Old July 16th, 2006, 10:51 am
ironbrick52  Male.gif ironbrick52 is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

Great Editorial

But in my version....
HARRY DISCOVERS the horcruxes the wrong way.
Thus all his friends die and Voldemort will gloat and it will be funny.

Kinda.....

Not really.....

BUT IRONIC


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  #12  
Old July 16th, 2006, 11:27 am
hermionefan01  Female.gif hermionefan01 is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

I like it. But where was the sword before Voldemort got it in the first place?


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Old July 16th, 2006, 12:30 pm
Oceania  Female.gif Oceania is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

While there is TONS of speculation (hey what are editorials for?), you tied it all together superbly. Excellent, excellent work there.

I really like this.


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  #14  
Old July 16th, 2006, 3:01 pm
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

I was so convinced that we had seen the sword in Dumbledore's office at the time of the interview - at the very least before the incident with the chamber (when Harry is called into Dumbledore's office to see if there is anything he wants to tell Dumbledore about the attacks,) yet, conveniently enough Jo doesn't mention that in Harry's description of the room! As one poster already mentioned, Harry said it was "the same" office with "one difference" (at the time of the interview,) yet the sword is in a case behind Dumbledore's head (when there is mention of it) - it wouldn't be hard to make note of that! Fawkes and the silver instruments are always noted, but not the sword. Additionally, when Harry pulls the sword from the hat, he doesn't note it's the one from Dumbledore's office. I also thought that there would be mention of the sword being missing from the office when Dippet was headmaster; yet, again it only says it was not the same headmaster and the office was different - no Fawkes and no whirring silver instruments. I had always been under the impression that the sword was not a Hogwarts item, but belonged to Dumbledore for some time.

Interesting idea you presented. I do think you're right about the cup and the locket being used in the way of one being a key to the other - after all, he secured those at the same time and it would have been convenient and symbolic all at once. I'm not sure if it extends much beyond that, though. For instance, what if the Ravenclaw object is a tiara? How could that be used for the cup? (getting a mental image of V in a tiara... ) Not being sarcastic, just thinking that, realistically, it may not have been possible to tie the four founders together in that precise way (with one as key to another); yet, if you are right that Voldemort was able to use the sword for some purpose at some point (besides making it into a horcrux), there is a great possibility that it can be used to aid the horcrux hunt and destroy mission.

One other thing - Jo's comment about Riddle coming to life from the diary:
from the editorialWhen answering a FAQ on her website about what would have happened if Tom Riddle had escaped the diary in CoS, JKR had this to say: “I can’t answer that fully until all seven books are finished, but it would have strengthened the present-day Voldemort considerably.”

Voldemort would’ve been strengthened because he would’ve had a body and the chance to finish Harry off with a quick Avada Kedavra -- but we could’ve guessed that a long time ago. What is it that we need to wait until Book 7 to fully understand? Maybe it’s that Voldemort did indeed use Gryffindor’s sword in a plan like the one I described above. If Tom Riddle had escaped the diary, he probably would’ve killed Harry and made off with the sword as the shiny trophy of his victory. Tom would have it, and Harry wouldn’t.
While the sword might have been taken, I think Jo was really alluding to the fact that, if young diary Tom had escaped and helped the older "Vapormort" back into his body, there would be essentially 2 Voldemort's on the loose - each one (*gasp*) a living horcrux of the other - they would have to be killed simultaneously after the other horcruxes had been destroyed in order for Voldemort to die - since both would contain fragments of the same soul. They would each serve as a horcrux to the other - tying the other to earth.

I do think this is a well thought out editorial and very insightful. Great job!


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  #15  
Old July 16th, 2006, 3:07 pm
adales  Female.gif adales is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

"After all, as the hat itself mentions in one of its songs, it too was a possession of Godric Gryffindor. "

You know, that has always puzzled me that no one has ever speculated that the sorting hat could play a role in the great Horcrux hunt. After all, it IS a relic of Godric Gryffindor as well. "Yet how to pick the worthy ones When they were dead and gone? 'Twas Gryffindor who found the way, He whipped me off his head The founders put some brains in me So I could choose instead." (P177US) Everone focuses on the sword as though it is the only possibility.

Another point to ponder. Didn't Fudge at some point admit to being one of the first to arrive after Pettigrew and Black dueled it out on the Muggle streets. If Fudge was in the position to respond to that in a timely manner, why would he not have been present at Godric's Hollow after the Potters were killed? I like the point that Amelia Bones was a first responder. It makes sense.


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Old July 16th, 2006, 3:41 pm
becklenay  Undisclosed.gif becklenay is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

Great editorial. I think it made perfect sense, after all what better 'magical property' for a cup than to neutralize poisons?


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Old July 16th, 2006, 3:47 pm
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

Yes, this really was a good editorial. It's creative and realistic at the same time. But I thought of the same thing that others have thought of before me: How did RAB manage without the cup? Because I think it highly unlikely that he actually found the cup and figured out that he needed to use it to get to the locket.

Another thing: if this turns out to be correct, then the tasks leading to the finding of the Philosopher's Stone (starting with putting Fluffy to sleep) in the first book sort of foreshadows what happens in the last book - only Harry doesn't know (yet) that the horcruxes have to be destroyed in a certain order. (Come to think of it, I guess that it has been suggested before that there is a connection between the different PS tasks and the horcruxes. But I don't think the element of order has been suggested as a link between the two situations before. I might be wrong, though...)

Anyway, thank you for an entertaining editorial!


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Old July 16th, 2006, 4:45 pm
yappa1  Undisclosed.gif yappa1 is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

Are you writing your own story using JKR's characters. In JKR's story seeing that Voldemort was wanted and if Ministery personnel saw him they would go get the aurors to attack Voldemort.
As for the sword why would you assume that Voldemort ever had it? It would either belong to Hogwarts or Dumbledore. Either is capable of taking care of their own property. Also the sword was delivered to Harry in the sorting hat that both belonged to GG. They were brought to Harry by Fawkes without Dumbledore knowledge because Dumbledore stated that Harry must have shown great devotion for Fawkes to act as he did.


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  #19  
Old July 16th, 2006, 4:59 pm
wannagoballwime  Male.gif wannagoballwime is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

The idea of a "key" cup was bang on. Really superb job. Voldy would definitely prefer sequential locking. There is some sense to it, but carrying along a sword to a murder...is well.... awkward.Amelia could definitely have been there, but i have this uncanny feeling that she was killed because she could have been a Hufflepuff descendent. Just as Fortesque and Ollivander could have been Gryffindor and Ravenclaw descendents, and maybe they could know something about relics.......... What say you?


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Old July 16th, 2006, 6:39 pm
GryffinWildmage  Female.gif GryffinWildmage is offline
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Re: The Keys to His Soul

Interesting idea. I definitely could see Voldemort using his Horcruxes that way. It would be nearly foolproof! Good job.

Quote:
Originally posted by JustAnHPFan
While the sword might have been taken, I think Jo was really alluding to the fact that, if young diary Tom had escaped and helped the older "Vapormort" back into his body, there would be essentially 2 Voldemort's on the loose - each one (*gasp*) a living horcrux of the other - they would have to be killed simultaneously after the other horcruxes had been destroyed in order for Voldemort to die - since both would contain fragments of the same soul. They would each serve as a horcrux to the other - tying the other to earth.
I find this extremely frightening, and am very, very glad it did not happen.



Last edited by GryffinWildmage; August 28th, 2006 at 9:42 pm.
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