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Is Harry Prepared?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 20th, 2006, 12:36 pm
sibex sibex is offline
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Is Harry Prepared?

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I fail to see how Harry can possibly be equipped to destroy LV. It just doesn’t fit.
Let me explain.

Could Harry Kill LV face to face? No. Even if all the horrcrux’s are destroyed first, Dumbledore said that basically LV would still be a frightening opponent. If this is the case, even weakened, LV could kill Harry. How? Well, let us seriously look at the jinxes, curses and other magic Harry actually knows and has used and compare that to some of the spell work Dumbledore invoked when battling LV in the Ministry of Magic in OOTP. Harry couldn’t possibly do 1% of that stuff. And its no wonder. Harry, after all only know the basic “childish” jinxes, on the whole as these are all he has picked up during his short years at Hogwarts. No one has taught him anything more advanced than a basic shield charm and a stupification hex. Where will he learn these things from now?

So could Harry destroy the Horrcrux’s? No. How? It took Dumbledore years to track down two of them and when he did find the cave where the locket was found, the magic he used to, firstly find the door that needed blood.. etc.etc.. was far to advanced for Harry to even understand. Harry, didn’t even know the spell for producing fire.


I know its all just fantasy and a story but seriously, can anyone tell me how Harry could “realistically” ever hope to win with such a limited education ?



Last edited by Pegasus; July 13th, 2007 at 7:21 pm. Reason: removed 'note to mods'
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  #2  
Old July 20th, 2006, 1:54 pm
bookwrm988  Female.gif bookwrm988 is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Obviously, it's a good qusetion. Harry is really still a child, and it seems utterly impossible for him to defeat someone as powerful as Voldemort. The only thing that I could find some confidence in is the prophecy-Harry has power the dark lord knows not, or whatever it was. That and he's also the one with the power to vanquish him. So my only guess is that it's not going to be his education that saves him. It'll have to be something else.


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  #3  
Old July 20th, 2006, 2:09 pm
MonteC  Male.gif MonteC is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

the problem is that you both are assuming that the next book is going to be over one year like the rest of them. that is a large assumption. JK could stretch it over many years giving hary to find people who can teach him, learn from the order. study up and have time looking at all the clues and going over DD's research.

and who isn't going to help harry along the way ( not counting the obvious dark wizards)


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Old July 20th, 2006, 2:18 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Harry isn't prepared to meet Voldermort on Voldermort's terms, so Harry's going to have to change the terms. As bookwrm988 says, "the power the Dark Lord knows not" is going to be the key to Harry's success. I think that power is the love the Harry has for his family and friends, and the love they have for him. At the Department of Mysteries, it was Harry's love for Sirius that drove Voldermort from his possession of Harry, and it caused Voldermort a lot of pain to feel that love. That's just a hint of the love that Harry feels for the Weasleys and Hermione, and it's the love they all share that's going to defeat Voldermort.


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  #5  
Old July 20th, 2006, 2:37 pm
smyonson  Male.gif smyonson is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

To be honest there was going to be no way that Harry would be on the level with Voldemort or with Dumbledore. He's just too young, but from what we have seen throughout the series has showed us that that doesn't always matter. Some times it's the simplest spells that can help. And lucky for Harry that is what he knows. A lot of time as we become adults we get clouded with thoughts and ideas when there is usually a lot simpler answer, and children are better at coming up with those answers. So by prepared, if you mean doesn't know as much as Voldemort, I agree. But if you mean ready to win, I think he has always had a shot, he's already faced him once completely alone in GoF and survived, so now he just has to finish him off.


  #6  
Old July 20th, 2006, 3:03 pm
powerof7  Undisclosed.gif powerof7 is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibex
Could Harry Kill LV face to face?
There is a reason that Dumbledore didn't spend time over the past 6 years teaching or having someone else teach Harry more advanced magic. He knew that Harry could not possibly learn enough to take on Voldemort playing the "game" using Voldemorts methods before Voldemort would eventually get to Harry. Harry has to use his power that Voldemort doesn't understand at all - love. While I can't specically say how that will play out - part of it will be relying on the strengths of the people he cares about and part of it will be feeling intense love for someone at the right time in the right place (as he did with his feelings toward Sirius when Voldemort was possessing him in the lobby of the MoM). Remember, Lily didn't use any advanced magic when she nearly killed Voldemort - her choice to sacrifice herself caused Voldemort's own A.K. spell to rebound which would have killed Voldemort if he did not have his Horcruxs.

Quote:
Harry, after all only know the basic “childish” jinxes, on the whole as these are all he has picked up during his short years at Hogwarts. No one has taught him anything more advanced than a basic shield charm and a stupification hex. Where will he learn these things from now?
There are lots of potential sources for whatever additional "education" Harry needs. We have Bill Weasley, a skilled curse breaker, who could certainly help with teaching how to brak curses on objects (Horcruxs). And, of course, Viktor Krum could make another appearance which could be helpful given that Durmstrang teaches offensive Dark Arts as well as defense against them. Harry has at least three aurors that he could trust to teach him more advanced magic - Tonks, Shacklebolt, and Mad-Eye Moody. It seems that Dumbledore didn't worry about teaching him more advanced magic because other people could do that. Dumbledore focused on teaching Harry what others couldn't provide (about the Horcruxs).

Quote:
So could Harry destroy the Horrcrux’s? No. How?
But Harry has already destroyed one and with no injury to himself (the diary). Harry had a strong intuitive sense of how to destroy the diary and did quite well with it. It won't be easy, of course, and I do think Harry will need to draw on Bill's expertise with the destruction of some the curses but Harry already has a proven record of success with this type of task.

Quote:
It took Dumbledore years to track down two of them
But basically Harry only has to find three Horcruxs and the clues of how is going to do so are before us. There were seven pieces of soul and, so far, two are definately destroyed - the diary and the ring. Two are essentially with Voldemorrt - the piece in his body and the piece in Nangini. That leaves the locket (which may or may not have already been destroyed by R.A.B.), Hufflepuff's cup, and something of Ravenclaws or Gryffindors.

There was a locket at Grimmauld Place while they were cleaning and if R.A.B. is Regulas Black like most people suspect, it is possible that he left the removed Horcrux at his family home before he was killed. Since the trio seems to have completely forgotten they saw a locket there and have not connected R.A.B. with Regulas yet, something (another look at the Black family tree) or someone (Ginny, Fred, George, or Mrs. Weasley) will inadvertantly trigger the connection and the memory. It will be discovered that either Kreacher or Mundungas have the locket, the trio will get it, and Bill will help destroy it, not knowing that it is a Horcrux but knowing it has protective Dark Magic on it.

With Hufflepuffs cup, the trio doesn't need to identify it - just locate it. And with the unknown object of Ravenclaws or Gryffindors, they need to both identify and locate it. Clearly, part of that process will be Hermione doing alot of reseach on the Founders of Hogwarts. Another part of it will be the trio realizing that diary!Riddle confided things to Ginny that would seem to her unimportant but could be quite helpful - things like places that were special to him or objects he really admired or coveted. There is also the possibility that Dumbledore left additional memories or information for Harry - in the Pensieve or with his brother, Aberforth.

Quote:
and when he did find the cave where the locket was found, the magic he used to, firstly find the door that needed blood.. etc.etc.. was far to advanced for Harry to even understand. Harry, didn’t even know the spell for producing fire.
Harry knows the spell for producing fire - he just paniced when the Inferi were coming at him. But even if he didn't know it that is one he could easily learn from Hermione as we have seen her use it twice (in her first year no less) when she set Snape's robes on fire while thinking he was trying to kill Harry on the Quidditch pitch and to get the devil's snare to release Harry and Ron after they went through the trap door. And Harry, having seen the advantages of being able to detect where magic was been used, could easily go to Lupin, McGonagall, or one of the aurors he knows and ask to be taught this skill.

Quote:
I know its all just fantasy and a story but seriously, can anyone tell me how Harry could “realistically” ever hope to win with such a limited education ?
JKR is clearly setting Harry up to realize that he needs the help of others (not just Ron and Hermione) and that going it alone isn't going to work since that makes him more like Voldemort. JKR summed it up nicely herself

Quote:
MA: Here at the end you sort of get the feeling that we know what Harry's setting out to do, but can this really be the entire throughline of the rest of the story?

JKR: It's not all of it. Obviously it's not all of it, but still, that is the way to kill Voldemort. That's not to say it won't be extremely an torturous and winding journey, but that's what he's got to do. Harry now knows - well he believe he knows - what he's facing. Dumbledore's guesses are never very far wide of the mark. I don't want to give too much away here, but Dumbledore says, "There are four out there, you've got to get rid of four, and then you go for Voldemort." So that's where he is, and that's what he's got to do.

ES: It's a tall order.

JKR: It's a huge order. But Dumbledore has given him some pretty valuable clues and Harry, also, in the course of previous six books has amassed more knowledge than he realizes. That's all I am going to say. Mugglenet/TLC Interview with J.K. Rowlings, July, 15, 2005.


  #7  
Old July 20th, 2006, 3:15 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

I know that there's a thread on this somewhere, but I can't find it.

What Dumbledore says to Harry is this.

"Horcruxes", Harry and Dumbledore"'So if all of his Horcruxes are destroyed, Voldemort could be killed?"
"Yes, I think so," said Dumbledore. "Without his Horcruxes, Voldemort will be a mortal man with amaimed and diminished soul. Never forget, though, that while his soul may be damaged beyond repair, his brain and his magical power remain intact. It will take uncommon skill and power to kill a wizard like voldemort, even without his Horcruxes.


That person with uncommon skill and power that Dumbledore is referring to is Harry Potter.

Throughout the entire book series, there has been an ongoing theme, that is a pretty powerful theme as well. The theme is that love is more powerful than hatred, or evil. That uncommon skill and power that Harry has, flows through his veins, and it is love.

"Horcruxes", DumbledoreYes, Harry, you can love, which given everything that has happened to you, is a great and remarkable thing. You are still too young to understand how uusual you are, Harry.


In the prophecy, there is a part that goes like this.

The ProphecyBut he will have power the Dark Lord knows not.


That powerf that Harry has, is love.

Because of this, I think that Harry is ready. He has that power that Voldemort has never known, and the theme is that love is more powerful than evil, so because of this, I believe he is ready.

Also, another thing that gets me is this.

Ron, HBPHe (Dumbledore) wouldn't be giving you lessons if he thought you were a goner, wouldn't was his time - he must think you've got a chance!


This is Dumbledore's belief, and according to Lupin in the OotP, Dumbledore's shrewd ideas tend to be quite accurate.

So all in all, I think he is ready.


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  #8  
Old July 20th, 2006, 3:19 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibex
It took Dumbledore years to track down two of them
Although that is true, Dumbledore was not able to devote his full attention to the task. He had many other duties that needed to be attended to (not the least of which being his post as headmaster) that prevented him from searching full time. Harry does nto have any of these duties. He, Ron, and Hermione will be devoting all of their time and effort into finding these things and destroying them. Therefore, it should be able to be done much faster. Especially when they enlist the help of others as others have mentioned.

I think that Harry is as prepared as he needs to be at the moment. I think we readers just need to have faith that he will use all of his strengths and resourses and finish off old Voldy.


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  #9  
Old July 20th, 2006, 3:30 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

How could any one be prepared to have to take the life of another person (even an evil person like Voldemort)?

I am among those guilty of making the assumption that Book 7 will take place over the course of a school year because of the whole "7 years of magical education, hence 7 books" concept. I do think Harry will return to school, in spite of what he said at the end of Book 6, and I think he will learn much as the year progresses.

Harry has already destroyed one horcrux (remember the diary), even though I think we'd all agree he isn't really as powerful as Dumbledore or Voldemort. But he seems to have an uncanny knack for being able to rise to whatever challenge is set before him. His instincts (excepting for Sirius in the Ministry) are good and he isn't afraid to act on them.

We know the key to Voldemort's destruction is the power that Harry has that the Dark Lord "knows not" and I suspect that is something he's had all along, not something he will have to learn. I doubt honestly that it will even involve a spell because we also know Harry & Voldemort's wands don't work properly against each other...unless of course, Voldemort has Ollivander (rather than just had him killed) and is forcing him to make him a new wand so he can fight Harry. But even at that, I think there will be some substantian benefit to Harry in the fact that his wand will be the one with a tailfeather from Fawkes . . . my gut feeling is that gives him a stronger connection to Dumbledore's powers than we can prove yet.


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  #10  
Old July 20th, 2006, 3:47 pm
sibex sibex is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

really good stuff indeed. Intersting point about it taking "Uncommon skill and power"... I have always read uncommon as meaning very powerful rather than unusual. Reading it as meaning unusual would make more sense in that Harry would not need "training up" any further and already has a latent ability that few others posses.


  #11  
Old July 20th, 2006, 3:55 pm
poetixerika01  Female.gif poetixerika01 is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

I also think that the last book will still take place over the course of one year, although I don't think he will return to Hogwarts. Nevertheless, I don't think that Harry will be able to defeat Voldemort if he solely relies on his magical ability, because he is far outclassed by Voldemort in the area. I also think that the key to Voldemort's defeat will be "the power the Dark Lord knows not."


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  #12  
Old July 20th, 2006, 4:10 pm
Grim_Reapster  Male.gif Grim_Reapster is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

No, Harry's not really prepared, but every other time that he faced Voldemort, he wasn't prepared either. And he's more prepared now than he ever has been, thanks to Dumbledore. Harry knows more about Voldemorts' history, and the reason that he survived than possibly anyone else. And he has a least some idea what he needs to do.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMollywobbles
How could any one be prepared to have to take the life of another person (even an evil person like Voldemort)?

I am among those guilty of making the assumption that Book 7 will take place over the course of a school year because of the whole "7 years of magical education, hence 7 books" concept. I do think Harry will return to school, in spite of what he said at the end of Book 6, and I think he will learn much as the year progresses.

Harry has already destroyed one horcrux (remember the diary), even though I think we'd all agree he isn't really as powerful as Dumbledore or Voldemort. But he seems to have an uncanny knack for being able to rise to whatever challenge is set before him. His instincts (excepting for Sirius in the Ministry) are good and he isn't afraid to act on them.

We know the key to Voldemort's destruction is the power that Harry has that the Dark Lord "knows not" and I suspect that is something he's had all along, not something he will have to learn. I doubt honestly that it will even involve a spell because we also know Harry & Voldemort's wands don't work properly against each other...unless of course, Voldemort has Ollivander (rather than just had him killed) and is forcing him to make him a new wand so he can fight Harry. But even at that, I think there will be some substantian benefit to Harry in the fact that his wand will be the one with a tailfeather from Fawkes . . . my gut feeling is that gives him a stronger connection to Dumbledore's powers than we can prove yet.

I agree with you that Harry will return to Hogwarts, but I think that part of the reason he'll return is that Voldemort is going to strike there. And you're totally right about Harry rising to the occasion, and his instincts. And even though he was wrong in OOTP, he rebounded quickly. His fast actions kept them all alive until the Order arrived.

As for the power that Voldemort "knows not", it may be love, as Dumbledore believed, or it may be his connection to Voldemorts' mind. Harrys' scar gives him access to Voldemorts' mind that no-one else has. This may be Harrys' "power". And until OOTP, Voldemort (and Harry) had no clue that Harry had this ability. Personally I think that Harry will use his mind to kill Voldemort, not his wand.


  #13  
Old July 20th, 2006, 4:23 pm
sibex sibex is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Its interesting that in a lot of ways Harry is prepared. And yet I find it strange that Dumbledore entrusts the future of the entire wizarding world to a boy, regardless of the fact that Harry is the only one who can finish Voldemort off. It is reckless in the exrtreme that Dumbledore would put all his eggs in one basket...or all his knowledge in one brain, in this case. Everything else aside, what happened if Harry got run over, fell off his broom and died or had some other form of accident that meant he was incapacitated. If that happened, no one else has any knowledge of how to defeat Voldemort. Very Dangerous. Dumbledore quite rightly passed on all his knowledge of Voldemorts life, in case he died (among other things) and yet just made Harry a single point of failure too. I know that Ron and Hermione were told what Harry was shown, by Harry.... but again.. they arent adults and have already shown that they take a lot of convincing that Harry's theories are correct.. Most of HBP for example.



Last edited by sibex; July 20th, 2006 at 4:28 pm.
  #14  
Old July 20th, 2006, 4:35 pm
Grim_Reapster  Male.gif Grim_Reapster is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibex
Its interesting that in a lot of ways Harry is prepared. And yet I find it strange that Dumbledore entrusts the future of the entire wizarding world to a boy, regardless of the fact that Harry is the only one who can finish Voldemort off. It is reckless in the exrtreme that Dummbledore would put all his eggs in one basket...or all his knowledge in one brain, in this case. Everything else aside, what happened if Harry got run over, fell off his broom and died or had some other form of accident that meant he was incapacitated. If that happened, no one else has any knowledge of how to defeat Voldemort. Very Dangerous.

The fact that Dumbledore didn't take a more active role in Harrys' education, would suggest that he believed Harry already has what he needs to defeat Voldemort. I'm sure that Dumbledore could have taught Harry some pretty impressive magic, but instead he chose to teach him Voldemorts' history. Maybe this means Dumbledore knew that it wasn't with magic that Harry would defeat him.


  #15  
Old July 20th, 2006, 4:44 pm
FBAWTFT  Female.gif FBAWTFT is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Harry may apear as not being prepared as he is so young.... i can't imagine him using an unforgivable curse...but the prophecy states that he will have "power the Dark Lord knows not"....this is what will help harry. he has faced voldemort before and knows what hes up against.

also, i definatly think the book will stick to being set over a year.....it would be too messy to develop their characters over a longer period of time...


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  #16  
Old July 20th, 2006, 5:43 pm
TheMagicMongol  Male.gif TheMagicMongol is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

The link between Harry and Voldemort might give Harry a better chance of defeating Voldemort. In GOF Harry did much better against Voldemort than he did against Snape in HBP. I think ther link will be the key.


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Old July 20th, 2006, 6:18 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Harry has proved multiple times that although he may not be the most educationally advanced wizard in the world, he clearly has the tools he needs to protect himself against Voldemort, whether or not he, Harry, realizes it. The fact that the prophecy says that Voldemort marked Harry as his equal, I think, proves enough that Harry has always been 'prepared'. There is no other wizard who is equal to Voldemort, let alone marked as an equal by Voldemort himself. And though Harry is not of age just yet, that does not matter. He is an extremely, extremely powerful wizard. Hermione is the most intelligent and clever witch in their year at Hogwarts, but do you think she would've been able to get away as Harry did in GoF when Voldemort returned to a body? Most likely not because she, nor anyone else, does not hold the unusual powers and instincts as Harry does.


  #18  
Old July 20th, 2006, 7:47 pm
Turgon01  Male.gif Turgon01 is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

I kinda wish Dumbledore had helped teach harry advanced magic though. I think Harry has the aptitude to learn anything. he might not be an exceptional student book-wise, but he has the ability to do whatever he wants when he puts his mind to it.

he's got all the tools, but I wish he had a teacher who could teach him some of the finer points of magic; Harry has usually used the 'Bull in the china shop' routine when in the Ministry, fighting voldy, etc. It works, but he never inspired the same confidence that Dumbledore did, who was much more subtle, and much more effective at beating people.

When Voldy tried killing harry in the ministry, he had a 'deer in the headlights' thing going on, where he didn't think at all, only Dumby throwing something in the path of the spell saved Harry. harry has the aptitude, so I hope he can find someone to teach him more tricks, nonverbal spells better, things like that so his ability is realised.

Obviously this will not take away from love, which would still be his prevalent power over Voldemort, but he will inspire much more confidence when he has gained more knowledge, power, and begins to seem more in control of his actions and surroundings, like Dumbledore, who always seemed to have a trick up his sleeve.


  #19  
Old July 20th, 2006, 9:01 pm
Grim_Reapster  Male.gif Grim_Reapster is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

I would love to see Harry stand up to Voldemort like Dumbledore did, strong and confident, able to counter everything that Voldemort throws at him. But, most likely, in the final confrontation, Harry will be desperate and scared, and about to die. But then he'll pull off a spectacular save when everyone least expects it. Harry always seems to be at his best when he's in a Do-or-die situation.


  #20  
Old July 20th, 2006, 9:57 pm
sibex sibex is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Exactly.. thats more of what im getting at. Pure luck can only get you so far and at some point must run out. Thats why at some point Harry must stand up to voldemort as an equal and an equal magically too. I like to think it will be the same type of self realisation that Neo had at the end of the First of the Matrix trilogy. Thats the best way I can describe it.


 
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