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Is Harry Prepared?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 20th, 2006, 10:24 pm
brildenlanch  Male.gif brildenlanch is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

You cant take everything with such face value.

Did ANYONE ever DREAM that a BABY could destroy LV? No. But it happened.

Circumstance, that's all that matters.


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  #22  
Old July 21st, 2006, 1:59 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

He's more ready than many adults give him credit for. He's great at DADA work. And he's very close to being an adult in the wizarding world. Therefore, it's his maturity and experience we need to look at -- he's got experience fighting Voldemort directly -- how many in the Ministry itself can claim that -- and has had Dumbledore teaching him. He's also resourceful. His one remaining year at Hogwarts may or may not have made a significant increase to his technical ability to fight Voldemort... but I think he's more ready now than in the past when he's faced him. He's also determined, which goes a long way!


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  #23  
Old July 21st, 2006, 3:49 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibex
Exactly.. thats more of what im getting at. Pure luck can only get you so far and at some point must run out. Thats why at some point Harry must stand up to voldemort as an equal and an equal magically too. I like to think it will be the same type of self realisation that Neo had at the end of the First of the Matrix trilogy. Thats the best way I can describe it.
Yeah, even though I want Harry to destroy Voldy.


  #24  
Old July 21st, 2006, 3:53 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by brildenlanch
You cant take everything with such face value.

Did ANYONE ever DREAM that a BABY could destroy LV? No. But it happened.

Circumstance, that's all that matters.
True, circumstance can save you, but JKR knows that it would be much more satisfying to readers if Harry got out of this on his own, not through the help of friends or family. And if he and Voldemort had a flat out duel with no intervention and no wands messing up, Harry would be dead in a split second, hands down.


  #25  
Old July 21st, 2006, 4:05 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Prepared? PREPARED? Pffft, Harry Potter is basically the DBZ of children's fantasy novels. When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter how much hard work he does, he just has to get all angry/excited/near death to go all Super Saiyin....er I mean Ultra Wizard and pull out from the nosedive in the nick of time.

But really, one should ask. How prepared is Harry when he has packed his mentos? Mentos is the freshmaker and you should never leave home without it.


  #26  
Old July 21st, 2006, 4:15 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

I don't obviously think he's going to do all by himself. I still have a flash of hope that Sirius WILL come back... Something tells me it's him that is going to help Harry. But there's also the thing that Dumbledore might not be dead AND Snape might be a good guy too.

So...

1. If Sirius comes back, he can help Harry. It's just a guess, I can't believe Sirius died. Even though he's not my favourite, I can't help to think he is alive.

2. If Dumbledore is alive, well... That is it. He's going to help Harry. And he might count with Snape's help to do it. He's a double-agent anyway, so if he could be against Harry, he could be against Voldemort too.

3. Dumbledore is dead, but Snape is innocent... Well, I think he's gonna have a hard time trying to PROVE to Harry that he's innocent and he's there to help him, but it might happen too. =)

Anyway, those are my theories. =)


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  #27  
Old July 21st, 2006, 4:17 am
brildenlanch  Male.gif brildenlanch is offline
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI
True, circumstance can save you, but JKR knows that it would be much more satisfying to readers if Harry got out of this on his own, not through the help of friends or family. And if he and Voldemort had a flat out duel with no intervention and no wands messing up, Harry would be dead in a split second, hands down.
It's possible. Thats why there's Book 7 though, who knows what he will learn before he actually faces Voldemort?

I agree, Harry isn't prepared. But he WILL be


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  #28  
Old July 21st, 2006, 7:08 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

There seems to be two essential features about Harry that will help him defeat Voldemort. The first is his ability to love, which has been passed on in a special way from Lily. The second Voldemort gave to Harry as a result of the prophecy; it's the special bond between them after that fateful Avada Kedavra.
Harry had both these features before he even knew he was a wizard...
Of course a lot of other abilities, not to mention people, will come into play, but what makes Harry unique is really what Voldemort has equipped him with. But Harry's instincts are better now than they were: in OotP, Harry was wrong about Voldemort taking Sirius; in HBP, he was right about Malfoy working for Voldemort. Both times, other people thought he was wrong.

Let's not forget that this is a carefully planned series. Harry knows exactly what he needs to kill of Voldemort, though we (and Harry, actually) don't know how that can be yet. Harry knows how to love, he has fantastic instincts, he has loyal and resourceful friends, he can trust other people and he has the courage to ask for help. Sure, it won't be easy, but we shouldn't underestimate Harry. Voldemort has done that several times already, and he has been proven wrong repeatedly...


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  #29  
Old July 22nd, 2006, 9:15 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibex
Could Harry Kill LV face to face? No. Even if all the horrcrux’s are destroyed first, Dumbledore said that basically LV would still be a frightening opponent. If this is the case, even weakened, LV could kill Harry. How? Well, let us seriously look at the jinxes, curses and other magic Harry actually knows and has used and compare that to some of the spell work Dumbledore invoked when battling LV in the Ministry of Magic in OOTP. Harry couldn’t possibly do 1% of that stuff. And its no wonder. Harry, after all only know the basic “childish” jinxes, on the whole as these are all he has picked up during his short years at Hogwarts.
As someone else said, sometimes the simple spells are more effective. That is what fact Moody taught Harry in Book 4. Use a simple spell to get what you need. His opponent in the Triwizard Tourn. were older and all used much more complex spells. Were they more effective?

But also, I think Harry's exposure to the HBP potions book has matured his arsenal of spells.

I think HBP shoed just how powerful Harry has become in the last year. He seems to have worked on his weaknesses. A big one being his focus and concentration. Apparating Dumbledore back to Hogsmeade. He was able to perform non verbal spells quite well by the end of the book.

In GOF, Harry was powerful enough to force Voldemorts wand to reverse spell, not Harry's. So in a way, Harry beat him


  #30  
Old July 22nd, 2006, 10:17 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Hey there is a thread similar to that Is Harry really ready for war?
I think it is just luck that has helped Harry so far and Voldermort's overconfidence. It may help him again as most likely with Dumbledore's death Voldemort is likely to underestimate HArry


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  #31  
Old July 22nd, 2006, 10:41 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

But throughout the books, jkr has hinted at Harry's power. And many characters have said just as much.

The fact the Hermione would remember his "speeches" like she does Dumbledores or her class lectures. Also Many older wizards were considerable impressed that he could conjure a patronus. I won't argue that these little things make him Voldemorts equal, but I think magic is about the power behind the spell, not the number of spells you know. And for whatever reason, when Harry is up against the ropes and focused he gets a lot of power behind his spells. In my opinoin more that your average and even moderately above average adult wizard.


  #32  
Old July 22nd, 2006, 10:42 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1hp2
In GOF, Harry was powerful enough to force Voldemorts wand to reverse spell, not Harry's. So in a way, Harry beat him

I've made this point in other threads. In that graveyard scene in GOF, Harry proved that he has greater will-power than Voldemort. This may have something to do with the fact that Voldemort has mutilated his own soul. The wands locked because they have the same core, and, Harry and Voldemort cast their spells at the same exact moment. If Harry had been faster, or their wands had been different, Harry may have disarmed Voldemort.

Harry's powerful enough, he just lacks knowledge. In HBP when he faced off with Snape, it was his inability to close his mind that allowed Snape to totally own him. But earlier in the same book, in DADA class, Snape tries to hex Harry, but Harry, acting purely on instinct, casts Protego, and Snape is knocked back into his desk. So far it's been his instincts, and will-power that have kept him alive. But I'm really hoping that, now that Dumbledore's gone, someone else will step up and teach Harry the tools he needs. Perhaps Aberforth Dumbledore.

It'll be a much more satisfying ending if Harry defeats Voldemort in a one-on-one fight, without just getting lucky.


  #33  
Old September 20th, 2006, 2:04 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

The real issue here is: Is Harry powerful enough to destroy Voldermort. We have seen evidence that Harry is growing more powerful each year. Perhaps a wizard is of age at 17 because that is when he or she reaches "power maturity", that is when their adult strength power occurs. Magic is not just something you learn, from a book or a teacher, it is inside you, you either have it or you do not. But some people have magic power in larger amounts than others (such as Dumbledore and Voldermort). Perhaps the magic world can only have one very powerful good wizard (or witch) and one bad at the same time. If this is true, then Dumbledore had to die before Harry would be powerful enough to destroy Voldermort. Perhaps Dumbledore's power will go into Harry once he is 17. (Voldy is going to be sooo surprised!)


  #34  
Old September 20th, 2006, 2:13 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkly View Post
Harry isn't prepared to meet Voldermort on Voldermort's terms, so Harry's going to have to change the terms. As bookwrm988 says, "the power the Dark Lord knows not" is going to be the key to Harry's success. I think that power is the love the Harry has for his family and friends, and the love they have for him. At the Department of Mysteries, it was Harry's love for Sirius that drove Voldermort from his possession of Harry, and it caused Voldermort a lot of pain to feel that love. That's just a hint of the love that Harry feels for the Weasleys and Hermione, and it's the love they all share that's going to defeat Voldermort.
I agree. I don't think he will need many complex spells. Sure, he has Hermione who will undoubtedly help him with her knowledge, and I'm sure Ron will not stand aside quietly either. However, simplicity seems to be in order for Harry to succeed. Love is what he'll need to eventually vanquish Voldemort. Besides, in GOF, Harry used a very simple disarming charm that protected him from Avada Kedavra yet again. Not very complex magic there, either.


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  #35  
Old September 20th, 2006, 2:40 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

I totally agree that Harry isn't ready to do anything like his. I always thought the books were funny in this aspect, Harry is only a kid and stops Voldemort all the time, yet he is the most feared wizard of all time? Seems a bit odd, and I agree that it is hard to believe that Harry will be ablew to track down all the horcruxes and stop Dumbledore. This is why I hope that Voldemort wins, just because to me it would make much more sense, and a better ending. But As you mentioned Harry isn't even half as skilled as Dumbledore so I don't see how he will be able to stop Volemort.


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  #36  
Old September 20th, 2006, 2:46 am
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Re: Harry's not prepared

I think of it as one of those times like in Star Wars when Luke has to go into the cave, and Yoda tries to tell him that he doesn't need to take anything with him, but of course he takes his lightsaber and things go badly. Harry is beyond needing weapons...he himself possesses the power "the Dark Lord knows not," and nothing else is going to be of much use. As for finding the Horcruxes...yeah, if I was him, I'd have nooo idea where to start looking, but hey, it's a story, and look at all the stuff he's managed to find his way through already, so he'll get some sort of inspiration somewhere. Plus, how do we know that Dumbledore hasn't left him some inadvertent clues along the way? Some memories still in the Pensieve, perhaps?


  #37  
Old September 20th, 2006, 2:25 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim_Reapster View Post
As for the power that Voldemort "knows not", it may be love, as Dumbledore believed, or it may be his connection to Voldemorts' mind. Harrys' scar gives him access to Voldemorts' mind that no-one else has. This may be Harrys' "power". And until OOTP, Voldemort (and Harry) had no clue that Harry had this ability. Personally I think that Harry will use his mind to kill Voldemort, not his wand.
This is an interesting idea. It reminds me a bit of the movie The Crow. The main character was able to access that last 48 hours of pain of his dying girlfriend by touching the temples of a police officer who had stayed by her bedside. He was then able to pass that feeling of pain to the bad guy at the end and ultimately destroy him (sorry if this has ruined the end of The Crow for anyone).

Perhaps something similar is in store for Voldemort, in the form of love rather than pain.

Cheers,
Chris


  #38  
Old September 20th, 2006, 2:40 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

She said he is...

I agree with you. Harry seems totally unprepared to me. But JKR said he is and that we (and possibly even he) do not realise how much he has learned in six years.

I am really curious to see how she will pull that off -to give us a great story (as usual) and to not elevate Harry in a status of semi-god/magical prodigy that we do not recognise. I suspect that finding the Horcruxes and fighting Voldemort would demand a good deal of other qualities than sheer knowledge of spells. That is the only way I personally could see Harry completing this task within a year. Being brave and with a quick mind is something that he simply is. JKR wouldn't need explain to us what Harry has been learning during classes for years to make that happen.


  #39  
Old September 20th, 2006, 3:51 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlasiou
. But JKR said he is and that we (and possibly even he) do not realise how much he has learned in six years.

I am really curious to see how she will pull that off -to give us a great story (as usual) and to not elevate Harry in a status of semi-god/magical prodigy that we do not recognise. I suspect that finding the Horcruxes and fighting Voldemort would demand a good deal of other qualities than sheer knowledge of spells.
I agree that he's not prepared right now, but like you said, he may not even realized what everything he's learned. I think part of what he has learned is how to love, which I don't think he's realized yet.

I think revelation of what he's learned will be a big part of the development he's still got to go through. He's not prepared yet, but he's still got time to grow and learn in book 7. I'm sure something will happen to teach him (or make him realize) something whether it's emotional or strategic and that book 7 won't just be a laundry list of horcrux missions for the Trio.

He's grown up a lot in the series already and has a lot of natural talent, so he's on the right track.


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  #40  
Old September 20th, 2006, 4:18 pm
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Re: Harry's not prepared

Powerof7 your post was excellent, but I decided against quoting it here in its entirety as it's so long (but if anybody's interested, it's on page 1 of this thread).

I agree with everything you said, but I would like to make a few additional points:

The ability to love is not Harry's only power - remember when the fake Moody was trying to put him under the imperious curse Harry was able to resist it without any training, just natural ability.

In fact JKR has repeatedly shown that the skills and powers that each of the trio (and also Neville and Luna) bring with them are much more than those they have learnt in the classroom - loyalty, friendship, natural curiosity, sporting and chess skills learnt in their leisure time, etc. And in fact the "non-traditional" qualities of Neville and Luna (particularly, I hope, Luna!) are looking very very likely to be vital in the final book too. There's no way JKR would allow it to turn out that book-wormery alone wins the day

We know Harry and Voldemort are going to have a final showdown, and we know JKR wouldn't have made it a let down, so we have to assume that there are clues to this showdown and what powers and abilities Harry will bring to it, littered throughout the previous six books. However there is a very good chance we won't recognise some or all of these clues until it comes down to it - just like the vanishing cabinet, which was crucial to the plot of book 6 but which I for one never really gave much weight to in the previous books.

In short, I may not know how Harry's going to defeat Voldemort, but I'm completely confident that JKR does know


 
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