Assuming Harry or his scar is a Horcrux v2

[Morgoth]

Yes, we're re-re-igniting this thread... oh-Oh dear God, what is wrong with us (again)?. We're bringing it back as demand is high and it is an interesting topic to debate. It's returning though with some rules and some staff sponsors. I can't emphasise enough just how much I will enjoy banning anyone who decides to flip out and ignore the general guidance.

We need to move this thread away from the 'my theory is waaaay more better than your theory' mentality. So we're posing some questions at the bottom of the thread for you all to answer. If you have any question suggestions please owl one of the sponsors with your ideas.

Assuming Harry Potter or his scar is a Horcrux. THIS THREAD IS SPONSORED BY - Picko, Nicole and SageThyme, with regular stops by Jessica, Rapunzel and runitsandrew. This thread is intended to allow people to discuss the idea of Harry being a horcrux in some way. This thread is NOT to debate whether he is or he isn't. This thread assumes he is and therefore what will be allowed will be the how and why he is one. The general rules of the thread are as follows: Discuss the how and why of Harry being a Horcrux in some way. This is NOT a debate thread arguing against the idea. "Assuming" is the operative word. Please respect the rules of CoS Forums and allow people to propose their ideas freely and without prejudice. Constructive criticism only, please. Use the Report the Post feature. Do not respond to baiting directly. It will not achieve anything. If this thread is forced to close more than three times for reasons other than natural post build up, it will cease as a debate topic for six months or more. Zero Tolerance will be in operation here for members who cannot play nice. That means instant bannings. CoS Rules The Use of Non-Canon For the purposes of continuity, non-canon is not permitted in this thread. Debate should focus on what we have in canon presently to aid theories. Conclusion If you require any help or assistance in understanding the nature of this thread, please seek advice from a member of staff. We will deal with your issues the best we can. Remember please, this thread assumes Harry is a horcrux, therefore your angle should be to work out the mechanics of such a method and what impact this may have on the story.

The Suicide Issue Suppose Harry or his scar is a horcrux? How does he destroy that? One idea is that he'll have to die to achieve that. Debating any potential scenario surrounding Harry's 'it-could-happen' death is always going to come to methods. Will he die in battle? Will he sacrifice himself? Or will Harry simply throw himself off a bridge? Well, we don't really know do we? He may live, get married, buy a cottage near the coast somewhere and breed rabbits... Who knows? Unfortunately there are certain debates which we cannot openly allow due to the nature of the debate. With this in mind, we are happy to have discussions carried out on Harry sacrificing himself in some way like his mother did. We are content for discussions to center around a death in battle or a death through some complex spell he involves himself with. Practically any scenario is dooable, bar the suicide angle. Suicide and sacrifice are not the same thing. Some of you may wholly disagree. Some of you may have personal experiences. That is fine, but for purposes surrounding the debate we are going to dismiss suicide from all debate. We cannot allow the glorification of suicide as Harry's final option to be discussed on here. It's an internet thing, not necessarily a story-thing (though after six books, he's more guided by his survival instincts than his 'OMG-I'm-so-emo-right-now' instincts). So, to clarify. We will allow debates that go along the lines of "Harry may sacrifice himself to save the lives of everyone for the following reasons..." "I think Harry will die in battle, as you can see from chapter xx, page xx, book x..." "We could be looking at a gestalt-type figure forming and thus Harry and Voldemort become one entity. I believe this to be the case because..." We will stop debates that look to be heading in the direction of: "I just can't see Harry wanting to carry on. He's got no one..." "He can commit suicide and it still be considered sacrifice. I know because..." "What if Voldemort is able to convince Harry to kill himself before realising he needs him. I think the clues suggest that this is a positive angle..." People who deliberately bring suicide into the discussion will be warned. Unintentional commentary (due to ignorance of the rule) will result in a reminder, followed by a warning if we are ignored. If you require any clarity, please ask one of the staff sponsors. Thank you

And now, some questions for you to answer:

1.Does Voldemort know Harry is a Horcrux? If so, when did he learn that? Is this why the Death Eaters have been instructed to "leave Harry for the Dark Lord"?

2. Can Harry remove the soul piece himself? Or will someone/something else assist with the removal? Will the "power the Dark Lord knows not" have a part to play?

3. How can Harry destroy a piece of Voldemort within himself without completely destroying himself in the process?

4. Voldemort wanted only Harry's blood for his rebirth, could that be important in figuring out other questions?

5. Will Harry need to learn more about horcuxes than he already knows in order to survive de-horcruxification?

6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a horcrux and didn't tell him? Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?

7. When/how might Harry discover that he/scar is a horcrux?

8. Can Harry make use of the connection, despite Voldemort's alleged Occlumency against it?

[kh312]

if harry's scar is a horcrux-then he'll have to find a way to destroy his forhead without dying.(which is virtually impossible)won't he be in a sticky situation(!)...

[lindaluna]

I disagree!

First, the field of plastic magicology, or healing arts related to appearance, is huge these days.

Second, if Fred & George can come up with magic pimple remover, a gifted healer can do a magic forehead scar that is a horcrux (leaving the hows and wherefores out of it).

Originally Posted by Morgoth

And now, some questions for you to answer:

1.Does Voldemort know Harry is a Horcrux? If so, when did he learn that? Is this why the Death Eaters have been instructed to "leave Harry for the Dark Lord"?

If not before, he learned it when he possessed Harry in the MOM for sure. Possibly he feels it is the only reason that there is the strange mind link, that he discovered in OOP, between them. This will be interesting to see in OOP movie.

2. Can Harry remove the soul piece himself? Or will someone/something else assist with the removal? Will the "power the Dark Lord knows not" have a part to play?

Harry is a team player - so it will take a trio combo at least!

3. How can Harry destroy a piece of Voldemort within himself without completely destroying himself in the process?

Good question. That's why there are 3 more horcruxes, including possibly an animate, Nagini, to practice on...futilely...bringing horror & suspense....

4. Voldemort wanted only Harry's blood for his rebirth, could that be important in figuring out other questions?

Blood debate. Does Blood hold the magic? Or the Soul? Is there the magic protection of Lily in the blood? Doesn't this go against "it is our choices that define us?"

5. Will Harry need to learn more about horcuxes than he already knows in order to survive de-horcruxification?



6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a horcrux and didn't tell him?

Suspected maybe. Here's where I run into my doubts re H=Hx

Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?

No. Dumbledore did not shirk from ugly facts.

7. When/how might Harry discover that he/scar is a horcrux?

Voldemort tells him so in a horrible evil villian type monologue. & Laughs. Wickedly.
Harry runs away, needs to find a solution, does so, is victorious.

8. Can Harry make use of the connection, despite Voldemort's alleged Occlumency against it?

Mais oui! It is a Voldie Sens-O-Meter. The dark arts, per Snape, are "Unfixed, mutable, indestructible..." sounds like a Voldie description to me. Yet Harry can sense Voldie in whatever guise, PARTICULARLY when Voldie is focused on hurting others - when he possessed the snake in the pipes in COS, was torturing Avery in OOP, was killing Frank Bryce - GOF.

Yet Harry IS/IS NOT is a fundamental debate. If not, what is their connection?
If Harry holds a horcrux in his scar, IS Harry a horcrux? or is Harry more? I guess that is all for another thread!

[sandpiper]

Hmm, does anyone on here remember if voldemort ever seriously tries to kill harry? Quirrel maybe tries, but it is not entirely clear whether that was Voldemort making him do it, or just Quirrell having a go. The diary Tom Riddle tries, but he doesn't know what happened after the diary was written. Snape certainly doesn't, and right at the end says he is under orders not to. in GoF Voldemort is trying to kidnap him, and also in Phoenix they are trying to again capture Harry. I am not sure there is anything against the idea that Voldemort knew right from whatever happened at Godrics Hollow that Harry was a horcrux. If he did, then presumably he would want to capture him, and maybe transfer his horcrux somewhere else, before anything nasty happened to harry.

Also, who has considered the notion that Voldemort quite deliberately made harry a horcrux before getting killed. For example, using james' death while Lily was still alive. Voldemort was supposedly looking for a relic of Godric Gryffindor, and maybe the only one he found was his direct descendant, still living in Godric gryffindor Hollow. Why does everyone assume that Voldemort wanted to kill Harry? Seems to me that based upon the prophecy he would make a very good ally for Voldemort. Making him into a horcrux could then be a bit of an insurance policy in case they ever fell out. How could the only person with the power to kill you actually do it, if your insurance policy was locked inside him.

[Baron_G]

Glad this thread is back! It's sad that it needed a reminder about constructive criticism. You'd think people would know better. Anyway, the last thread raised an interesting possibility. But first, I'll answer the questions and maybe add one of my own. I've stated my position on these points before but with a new thread, a reiteration is called for:

Originally Posted by Morgoth

1.Does Voldemort know Harry is a Horcrux? If so, when did he learn that? Is this why the Death Eaters have been instructed to "leave Harry for the Dark Lord"?

Voldemort's a smart guy. I like to think he suspected, as Dumbledore would have, with Harry's dream intrusion into the attack on Mr. Weasley. It might have been obvious to him, the link between him and Nagini being equivalent to the link with Harry, not to mention all three being present in the same body. Nevertheless, he was willing to kill Harry because he had other Horcruxes to rely upon. Telling the DEs to back off may have been a question of ego. He still has to prove he is the superior.

6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a horcrux and didn't tell him? Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?

Yes he knew and didn't tell him. I think it would have been confirmed when he found out Harry's scar was hurting. I also believe that in possessing Harry at the MoM, Voldemort was testing Dumbledore, to see if Dumbledore knew and if so, exactly how much he knew. There was more going on during their duel-debate. They were putting their cards on the table that night. When Dumbledore refused to kill Voldemort when he possessed Harry because it wouldn't finish him, Voldemort knew his secret of multiple horcruxes wasn't safe. Voldemort realised Dumbledore was too dangerous to live from that point forward.

2. Can Harry remove the soul piece himself? Or will someone/something else assist with the removal? Will the "power the Dark Lord knows not" have a part to play?
&
3. How can Harry destroy a piece of Voldemort within himself without completely destroying himself in the process?

I think he can remove it himself by committing murder. The soul tears apart with a murder and Harry is destined to kill or be killed. He can get rid of the soul fragment in this way.

4. Voldemort wanted only Harry's blood for his rebirth, could that be important in figuring out other questions?

Possibly. I'll address this in my next post but love does seem to have a good link with the soul.

5. Will Harry need to learn more about horcuxes than he already knows in order to survive de-horcruxification?

I like to think so but so far JKR hasn't been keen on making him more academic-minded. So the question is: does being Voldemort's horcrux (that almost sounded obscene, didn't it?) automatically tell him everything about horcruxes? It could be argued that he inherited every memory of a Voldemort at the height of his powers.

7. When/how might Harry discover that he/scar is a horcrux?

Can't say. But I hope he figures this out by himself and not with any help.

8. Can Harry make use of the connection, despite Voldemort's alleged Occlumency against it?

Doesn't seem likely, no. Not unless he's superb at legilimency or Voldemort is a bad occlumens (can't contain his anger). Also the unforgivable curses' requirements for sadistic thought may work against Voldemort in a duel. Harry doesn't need legilimency because his hurting scar could tell him what's Voldemort's going to throw at him.

My question is this: What differentiates Voldemort's main soul (that which is in his body and had roamed a spectral existence after his fall) from one of his horcruxes?

Shouldn't they all be equal? So will Horcrux Harry enjoy that same amount of control over nagini as Voldemort does? And when a horcrux is destroyed, why is it not relegated to the same spectral existence as Vapormort? Is the 16-year old soul of Tom Riddle still out there, roaming somewhere. That piece of soul should be as bound to the other horcruxes as Voldemort is. And destroying the horcrux doesn't destroy the soul does it? Tom Riddle would have escaped the diary had he completely consumed Ginny's lifeforce.

Perhaps that is the difference. They lack the lifeforce to be corporeal as vapormort was and Tom Riddle attempted to become. Even so, is it possible the destroyed soul fragments are still out there, lying undetectable yet earthbound until Voldemort and every Horcrux is destroyed?

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by Baron_G

Is the 16-year old soul of Tom Riddle still out there, roaming somewhere. That piece of soul should be as bound to the other horcruxes as Voldemort is. And destroying the horcrux doesn't destroy the soul does it? Tom Riddle would have escaped the diary had he completely consumed Ginny's lifeforce.

But JKR said in the MN&TLC interview that the piece of soul from the diary was "destroyed" and "gone". So in the Potterverse, the destruction of a horcrux/anchor also destroys that piece of soul.

6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a horcrux and didn't tell him? Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?
I liked the idea brought up in the previous version that Albus's protection spell at Privet Drive may also have 'shielded' Harry from the full effects of having a "bit" of Voldemort. The possibility that Harry might begin accessing the memories/knowledge/powers via the scar when he 'comes of age' is intriguing (though that might make the horcrux hunt just a bit too easy).

[Master_Feign]

Thank you very much for reopening up the thread


1.Does Voldemort know Harry is a Horcrux? If so, when did he learn that? Is this why the Death Eaters have been instructed to "leave Harry for the Dark Lord"?

Yes I believe this is why Voldemort's presence in #6 was non existance. I believe Voldemort only found out about Harry being a horcrux at the end of #5 when Harry and Voldemort were bound by a creature of pain, as described in the book. Pain is also mentioned in the graveyard, when Voldemort "died" the night Harry lived. Pain is somewhat of an interesting demi-theme that seems to appear, along with the love theme.

2. Can Harry remove the soul piece himself? Or will someone/something else assist with the removal? Will the "power the Dark Lord knows not" have a part to play?

I believe there to be a penultimate moment, as to what exactly will happen, I am not sure, perhaps love, will come into play...

3. How can Harry destroy a piece of Voldemort within himself without completely destroying himself in the process?

I am not sure either, at this point it is too early to tell.

4. Voldemort wanted only Harry's blood for his rebirth, could that be important in figuring out other questions?

No, at this point (end of number 4), it sounded as though he just wanted Hary's blood because it had more "power" then the average person, but I don't think it had anything to do with a horcrux theory.

5. Will Harry need to learn more about horcuxes than he already knows in order to survive de-horcruxification?

6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a horcrux and didn't tell him? Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?

No, I think like the reader, we've only had hints of connections via pain (scar hurting etc).

7. When/how might Harry discover that he/scar is a horcrux?

Perhaps when Voldemort reveals this information to Harry, when, I am not sure.

8. Can Harry make use of the connection, despite Voldemort's alleged Occlumency against it?

To some extent yes, as we have seen in book 5, Harry was able to get to Voldemort's feelings, but I think it to be just as good as #5, in that there won't be some new connection or what have you.


Basically the underlying theme I see is that of pain, thats why I could not answer all questions because some of them get to specific, especially in thoughts of the last book.

And notice this, when Harry is bound by the creature of pain, it is not mentioned in the book that he is possesed, I believe it to be beyond possesed...

[sandpiper]

BaronG, inrteresting theological debate on the relative importance of soul fragments. it sounds as though there might be a bit of a logic hole here. If JKR says that the soul fragment is destroyed when the horcrux is (sounds like it might helpfully simplify the plot somewat), this sounds to me as though a soul fragment inside a body ought also to be destroyed when its container (the original body) is destroyed. Voldemort ought metaphysically now to be operating on the fragments of soul he has safely stashed, that which had remained in his body having also been lost. It seems implicit in the general idea of having so many horcruxes that if even one survives, then the original being will also survive, and in good enough condition to carry on with his life. Voldemort's degenerating appearance does not seem to entirely support this. it might also be wondered whether his magical or mental powers are deteriorating in line with his appearance, but perhaps not. It did seem noticeable that the soul fragment in the diary seemed capable of making a much better job of recreating a body than did the later Voldemort himself. Perhaps Voldie chose his new body shape.

It seems people are taking literally the invitation to answer each question, so I will have a go:

1.Does Voldemort know Harry is a Horcrux? If so, when did he learn that? Is this why the Death Eaters have been instructed to "leave Harry for the Dark Lord"?

Either he learnt this somewhere along the way, most likely at the end of OOP, or he always knew ever since it happened. We do not understand exactly how horcruxes work, and it seems likely nor does Voldemort. So it may be that he has come to this realisation slowly, although it must have been obvious from very early in the books, to Voldemort, that something very funny was happening when he came into contact with harry. But he may not have absolutely confirmed this until he tried to possess harry, and something went wrong. Unfortunately there are a lot of other factors in play: Dumbledores protective magic and Voldie making a new body partly from Harry. So this all might confuse Voldemort as to exactly what is going on.

2. Can Harry remove the soul piece himself? Or will someone/something else assist with the removal? Will the "power the Dark Lord knows not" have a part to play?

Don't know and can't tell. It seems likely that this will become one of his last tasks, though who knows, maybe JKR will surprise us. But I would envisage a build up through book 7 as Harry realises he has a serious problem and tries to get help solving it.

3. How can Harry destroy a piece of Voldemort within himself without completely destroying himself in the process?

Its a mystery (to quote not shakespeare). However, it is possible Dumbledore has already done some research on this, when he set his instruments onto Harry (?in OOP?). The verdict was something like, 'two, but in essence divided'. I take this to mean that Voldemorts soul is not inextricably combined with Harrys and an appropriate application of magic could shift Voldemort's soul somewhere else. I doubt Harry will get rid of it until the very end, as it is an obvious threat to his life and thus will add to the tension all the time it remains.

4. Voldemort wanted only Harry's blood for his rebirth, could that be important in figuring out other questions?

I would acept the solution offered, that Voldemort used Harry because he thought it might make Harry vulnerable to him, but that seems a little strange if you consider that Harry was already his prisoner when he did it. Perhaps it just pleased him to use the flesh of the one who had destroyed his. All in all, it would appear much simpler to have simply killed Harry instead of kidnapping him, and used someone else, so maybe there is a meaningfull reason. Plainly Dumbledore thinks Voldemort just made a big mistake.

5. Will Harry need to learn more about horcuxes than he already knows in order to survive de-horcruxification?

If he is going to avoid the obvious method of just killing himself (oops, can't say that), then yes, he is going to have to either find out how to do it the safe way, or get someone else to do it for him.

6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a horcrux and didn't tell him? Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?

Yes, I am sure he suspected throughout OOP. Maybe from the minute he saw the scar and the strange circumstances of Voldemorts death. Dumbledore seems quite clued up upon horcruxes. No, I don't think he was in denial. Early on he didn't even know baby harry so no reason his judgement should be clouded. Later, he was studiously avoiding him (even before GOF and OOP he has always been rather distant), so he knew something was up.

7. When/how might Harry discover that he/scar is a horcrux?

when he better gets to grips with exactly where the hell the horcruxes are and concludes there is one missing. Not too late in the book because this is going to be a point of suspense and mounting difficulties, but maybe not too early or it might just all feel too hopeless early on. A creeping suspicion, then somehow a way to definitely confirm it, I would think.


8. Can Harry make use of the connection, despite Voldemort's alleged Occlumency against it?

Maybe. It would be a nice dramatic twist for harry to get some benefit from it perhaps either in tracking down Voldemort, or in attacking him in the final confrontation.

[Idabomb333]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

1.Does Voldemort know Harry is a Horcrux? If so, when did he learn that? Is this why the Death Eaters have been instructed to "leave Harry for the Dark Lord"?

I think he at least suspects and probably knows. I can't decide whether I think he realized during the Nagini attacking Arthur incident, or when he tried to possess Harry, but I lean towards thinking it's the former and that's why he thought he could possess Harry.

I think that was a lesser factor, if one at all, in instructing the DEs to leave Harry. He definitely still wants Harry dead. He has other Horcruxes, and preserving the one in Harry wouldn't be worth the expense of keeping the "Chosen One" alive. If he killed Harry (especially now with Dumbledore dead) and had his other Horcruxes intact, he'd be totally convinced of his immortality.

If Harry manages to destroy the other Horcruxes before the final confrontation, though, that might play a big role in why Voldemort doesn't manage to kill him. If he knew Harry was the only remaining Horcrux, he would probably keep Harry alive at least long enough to make another one or something.

2. Can Harry remove the soul piece himself? Or will someone/something else assist with the removal? Will the "power the Dark Lord knows not" have a part to play?

I'm convinced Harry will at least have to learn HOW to remove it from someone. I think the power will be involved with vanquishing Voldemort once the Horcrux is gone.

5. Will Harry need to learn more about horcuxes than he already knows in order to survive de-horcruxification?

Yeah, I think this and the very idea that Harry's a Horcrux are the reasons we don't yet know very much about how Horcruxes are created and so on. JKR, through Slughorn, was pretty brief and vague about it, even though it's a pretty central idea in the story and seems to be a big focus of HBP.

6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a horcrux and didn't tell him? Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?

I think both of these are possibilities, but the latter is much less likely to me. Dumbledore clearly has a theory in mind for how/why the connection works the way it does, which means he has some kind of understanding for the magic behind it even though it's a unique situation. Assuming Harry's a Horcrux, that's the explanation for the connection, so in order to understand the connection, Dumbledore would have to know that's why the connection is there.

Given how late in HBP it was that Harry even learned what a Horcrux is and so on, I don't find it all that surprising that Dumbledore would hold back from telling him that he is one. Regardless, he knows Harry will need to be involved in hunting down the other Horcruxes. It would have been too much too quickly if he had told Harry.

8. Can Harry make use of the connection, despite Voldemort's alleged Occlumency against it?

Depends what the question really means, I think. There's a "connection" between them beyond the mental/emotional link, and I think that will definitely be useful. I don't think Harry will even try to bypass Voldemort's Occlumency in order to predict his plans or anything, though.

[Baron_G]

Originally Posted by Nicole

But JKR said in the MN&TLC interview that the piece of soul from the diary was "destroyed" and "gone". So in the Potterverse, the destruction of a horcrux/anchor also destroys that piece of soul.

Oh, thanks I'd forgotten she'd said that. Oh well, the question still stands. How do you differentiate between the main soul and the fragment?

As sandpiper points out:

Originally Posted by sandpiper

If JKR says that the soul fragment is destroyed when the horcrux is (sounds like it might helpfully simplify the plot somewat), this sounds to me as though a soul fragment inside a body ought also to be destroyed when its container (the original body) is destroyed.

We may have a clue in the connection, just to differentiate between the two. Voldemort's intense emotions tend to reach Harrycrux. The main soul retains some ability to reach out to the fragments. Snape in his occlumency lesson speech indicates that this naturally works in one direction, Voldemort to Harry. Not sure what that means though.

[Master_Feign]

Hey its interesting that most people input for the first question. This is one of the questions I've always pondered, and answered above. It seems most of us agree that it was in book 5 or book 6 that Voldemort may have realized there was a connection.

I'm thinking to make a list of moments where Harry feels pain, maybe to give a synopse of what this means...

[Alonna]

Originally Posted by Master_Feign

Hey its interesting that most people input for the first question. This is one of the questions I've always pondered, and answered above. It seems most of us agree that it was in book 5 or book 6 that Voldemort may have realized there was a connection.

I'm thinking to make a list of moments where Harry feels pain, maybe to give a synopse of what this means...

It makes sense that Voldemort would have learned that Harry was a horcrux in the fifth book because his attitude towards Harry changes in the sixth. He does not Harry to be killed by the DEs who invaded Hogwarts. I think the most likely point in time that he discovered that Harry was a horcrux would be when he possessed him at the Ministry. Prior to that point in time, he was still trying to kill Harry, but since then, has made no effort and has ordered the DEs not to kill Harry.

[Master_Feign]

Originally Posted by Alonna

It makes sense that Voldemort would have learned that Harry was a horcrux in the fifth book because his attitude towards Harry changes in the sixth. He does not Harry to be killed by the DEs who invaded Hogwarts. I think the most likely point in time that he discovered that Harry was a horcrux would be when he possessed him at the Ministry. Prior to that point in time, he was still trying to kill Harry, but since then, has made no effort and has ordered the DEs not to kill Harry.

Exactament! My thoughts exactly. Perhaps we can use Dumbledore's suspicion that Nagini is a horcrux, and apply that to Harry... We know that Harry can see into Voldemort's feelings, and sometimes posess him, but if Nagini was a horcrux, could that mean Voldemort could be able to posess Harry if not something worse then at the end of #5. Perhaps the reason why he was not in #6, and was being saved (per Snape), could this mean, that Voldemort wants to posess Harry again, and have no backfire?

On a side note, I wish Rowling had answered that fact question about horcruxes, I might be mailing her, so if by chance (ok slim) that she does read it... Maybe we can get an answer

But can "being near" and a "particular feeling" from Voldemort apply to Nagini? Wouldn't Nagini feel pain? Or is Harry different, because he was also attemptedly killed?

[Twizzlers]

If Harry is a Horcrux, Voldemort can't possibly know about it, or else he wouldn't keep trying to kill Harry. I mean, being careless with your Horcruxes is one thing. But purposely setting out to destroy a fragment of your own soul is another thing entirely.

[Idabomb333]

Originally Posted by Twizzlers

If Harry is a Horcrux, Voldemort can't possibly know about it, or else he wouldn't keep trying to kill Harry. I mean, being careless with your Horcruxes is one thing. But purposely setting out to destroy a fragment of your own soul is another thing entirely.

I definitely disagree. Voldemort's got other Horcruxes, and he knows he only NEEDS one to be immortal. He didn't intend for Harry to be a Horcrux, so it must be upsetting for him to have his plan all messed up. Besides, he believes the prophecy. He thinks there's a way Harry can defeat him (despite his Horcruxes?) so it's worth getting rid of ONE of the several sources of his immortality in order to avoid being defeated, right? I mean, it's a choice between:
1) Having several Horcruxes, but not the Harry Horcrux anymore and Harry, the foretold "Chosen One" is dead. No one left could defeat him.
or
2) Trying to preserve an EXTRA Horcrux in the one person he thinks might defeat him, allowing that person more time to defeat him.

Isn't it obvious that #1 is the better choice to Voldemort?

Now, if he were to find out that all of his other Horcruxes had been destroyed and Harry was the ONLY ONE left, that might change things. As long as Voldemort believes he has other Horcruxes, he would not hold back from killing Harry.

The main reason he would tell the Death Eaters not to kill Harry is the same reason he told them not to interfere in the graveyard scene. He wants to do it himself, to show that Harry is not special and that he, Voldemort, is the most powerful wizard alive. If one of the Death Eaters is the one to kill Harry, or even to capture Harry and make it easy for Voldemort to kill Harry, then Voldemort looks weak and the Death Eaters would fear him less. Harry has defied Voldemort, and Voldemort will stop at nothing to prove his personal superiority.

[stetson]

1.Does Voldemort know Harry is a Horcrux? If so, when did he learn that? Is this why the Death Eaters have been instructed to "leave Harry for the Dark Lord"?
I think Voldemort intentionally made Harry into a Horcrux the night of the Potters' death. Maybe it was some kind of back-up plan that he came up with after hearing the prophecy. "Neither can live while the other survives." Yes, we all agree that Voldemort is egotistical and blah blah blah, but maybe when he learned that Harry was to be the one to kill him if he were to be killed, he decided that just in case someone could take him down, he would make Harry into a horcrux before trying to kill him, so that if it didn't work, part of him would still be alive. I have convinced myself that the scar is the horcrux, because it appears to be the thing that links him to Voldemort. Whenever Harry gets some kind of intuition about Voldemort, his scar is always mentioned.
Also, I'd like to mention that every time Voldemort tries to kill Harry, he always seems to be trying to prove something. It's very easy to imagine that he's showing that he doesn't need the Harcrux (Harry+horcrux) anymore because he is so much alive.

2. Can Harry remove the soul piece himself? Or will someone/something else assist with the removal? Will the "power the Dark Lord knows not" have a part to play?
Nothing Harry does is ever done completely alone, so I think Harry just needs to learn about how to remove a horcrux without destroying the item itself (like what Dumbledore did with the ring) and Ron and Hermione will help him with whatever they can like they always do.

3. How can Harry destroy a piece of Voldemort within himself without completely destroying himself in the process?
As I mentioned earlier, Dumbledore de-horcruxed the ring without destroying it, so that is all Harry would have to do. Also, I heard a rumor (I don't know if it's true or not) that the last sentence is "Where's your scar?" so that would imply that Harry just has to remove his scar somehow and the soul will go with it.

4. Voldemort wanted only Harry's blood for his rebirth, could that be important in figuring out other questions?
I think it was Voldemort being egotistical Voldemort, showing that he can take the blood from the one who will supposedly kill him and also maybe make Harry feel guilty about him coming back because it was his blood that did it.
I don't really know about answering other questions, I just assume it was supposed to be a slap in Harry's face

5. Will Harry need to learn more about horcuxes than he already knows in order to survive de-horcruxification?
Maybe, maybe not. If Harry knows how to remove a scar, then no. However, if it takes more than that then yes, he will have to learn more.

6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a horcrux and didn't tell him? Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?
I think Dumbledore suspected that his scar wasn't just a scar, but as for knowing it was a horcrux, I don't think so.

7. When/how might Harry discover that he/his scar is a horcrux?
Probably not until late in Book 7. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much of a story, and we all know how thickheaded Harry can be.

8. Can Harry make use of the connection, despite Voldemort's alleged Occlumency against it?
So far, he has just been able to detect Voldemort's more intense feelings, but his skill at Divination is anything but great. The only thing that might help is if he were able to predict what feelings he might be feel, but I don't see that happening.

[ComicBookWorm]

Thanks for reopening the thread...again.

1.Does Voldemort know Harry is a Horcrux? If so, when did he learn that? Is this why the Death Eaters have been instructed to "leave Harry for the Dark Lord"?

I think that Voldemort started to suspect when Harry made his little snake excursion. When he possessed Harry in MoM, he confirmed that fact. Interestingly enough, Lucius seemed willing to kill Harry after he got the prophecy, so the hands off order had to have come after the fracas in the MoM and not before.

2. Can Harry remove the soul piece himself? Or will someone/something else assist with the removal? Will the "power the Dark Lord knows not" have a part to play?

Harry will be the one to remove the soulpiece. I think that he will fall through the veil and come out the other side since he will have two souls within him, and you only need to surrender one to the veil. I had originally thought that Harry might willingly go through the veil, but the prohibition in this thread against discussing suicide got me to thinking that it wouldn't just be CoSForums that finds that an unpalatable concept since JKR probably wouldn't put that in a children's book, either. So now, I will modify my theory to assume that Harry accidentally falls through the veil, perhaps pushed by Voldemort, but that Harry grabs onto Voldemort and pulls him through, as well.

3. How can Harry destroy a piece of Voldemort within himself without completely destroying himself in the process?

See above to the answer to question two.

4. Voldemort wanted only Harry's blood for his rebirth, could that be important in figuring out other questions?

I think that Harry's blood will be a corrosive within Voldemort, perhaps weakening him, but I haven't come up with a good tie-in to solving the issue of Harry being a Horcrux.

5. Will Harry need to learn more about horcruxes than he already knows in order to survive de-horcruxification?

I think so since he will need to recognize that he is one, and perhaps experiment with ways to remove it (assuming my veil idea doesn't pan out).

6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a Horcrux and didn't tell him? Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?

I think that Dumbledore may have suspected, but couldn't permit himself to truly acknowledge the possibility as fact. I don't think he willingly kept it from Harry, but he was waiting to be completely sure before upsetting Harry with the information.

7. When/how might Harry discover that he/scar is a Horcrux?

Well, I think that's where Wormtail might come in handy. Or Snape. Someone close to Voldemort will find out. If Wormtail really wants to cash in his lifedebt to Harry, he might tell him. Or Snape may tell Harry. Of course, Voldemort likes to mouth off and make windy speeches. He might taunt Harry when Harry has killed Nagini (and thinks he's gotten rid of all the Horcruxes.

8. Can Harry make use of the connection, despite Voldemort's alleged Occlumency against it?

It's always possible the love power might come in handy here, but the idea makes me want to barf.

[muggl3tt3]

I don't think his scar is a horcrux. You don't just create a horcrux by killing someone. Slughorn said that, you have to preform a spell. I don't think that Voldemort had time to do a spell. Unless after he killed James and lily, he did it, and put it in Harry when he tried to kill him? Would he have even had time though?

[lindaluna]

Love Connection :

Could mercy kill Voldemort?

The Veil

2 go through 1 comes out the other side...
That is a very interesting idea and fascinating mechanism.
I really like it

I had no idea there was a suicide debate going on which I will not discuss.

However, taking a calculated risk of jumping through the veil, hoping for the best but prepared to accept the worst is, in fact, what people at war or courageous people, do all the time.

When Voldie First Knew...

I can't accept that Voldie deliberately made Harry a horcrux at birth, unless Voldie also gave the tiny baby holding his precious soul bit a guardian, ie Snape. (Part of my if Snape is truly evil speculation)

I agree H=Hx adds a devilish twist. Harry can't kill Voldie because Voldie is safeguarded in him, and Voldie can't kill Harry because to do so would be Voldie killing part of his own soul. Sounds like a peace or at least a truce...yet neither can live (all previous 18 years evidence to the contrary) while the other survives....

You know I believe in the mirror theory, that is, at Godric's Hollow "that night" Lily transformed baby Harry (she was a Gryffindor) and switched baby Harry into an object/mirror and a mirror into baby Harry. Voldie cast his horcrux into what he believed was the object (baby Harry) and his Avada Kedavra at the mirror disguised as baby Harry.

Lily, in her purity, also a superb occulumens, (like her friend Snape), cast herself in front of the fake Harry to carry the deception to death (perhaps it was a secret she was keeper of - to additionally protect Harry). This raises her heroism up a further notch. Not just a mother defending to death, but a mother defending to death a bluff that must succeed.

James rushed Voldemort, without hope of winning (why go 1 on 1 when 2 on 1 would have been better odds - and the goal is protecting your child? - only answer, by going alone he bought Lily time). The rushing lacks finesse, pure animalistic...

The horcrux was placed in baby Harry whilst Voldie passed Harry-disguised-as-an-object on his way to get Lily. Voldie made Harry a horcrux while he believed baby Harry to be the object (possibly an ancient, sacred object that the Potters knew Voldie would value & not destroy).

When Voldie cast his Avada Kedavra at the fake-baby-Harry-real-Mirror, Voldie received a lethal flashback. The house crumbled, Voldiemist, confused & disoriented, fled. Baby Harry, released from his mother's enchantment, came into his own body, as Hagrid later found him, but was hidden from sight in the rubble. No one, even Voldie knew how Harry had survived. A legend grew.

Only much much later, (ie MOM in OOP) did Voldie finally get the whole picture. The protective love of Lily, while true, was not the whole story. Her skill, her occulumency, her final sacrifice - the magnificent bluff, all these enabled Harry to live.

[MWPP]

1.Does Voldemort know Harry is a Horcrux? If so, when did he learn that? Is this why the Death Eaters have been instructed to "leave Harry for the Dark Lord"?
I don't think that Voldemort knows that Harry is a Horcrux. He has attempted to kill him in PS, CoS, GoF and OotP, and in HBP sent his Death Eaters to Hogwarts. He may have given them orders to leave Harry to him, but he could not be sure that Harry wouldn't be hit by a stray curse. The risk would be too great.

2. Can Harry remove the soul piece himself? Or will someone/something else assist with the removal? Will the "power the Dark Lord knows not" have a part to play?
I think Ginny may play a role in this, though I'm not 100% sure how.

3. How can Harry destroy a piece of Voldemort within himself without completely destroying himself in the process?
I think it is possible, but I suppose this all depends on whether JKR really wants to kill Harry off or not.

4. Voldemort wanted only Harry's blood for his rebirth, could that be important in figuring out other questions?
Possibly

5. Will Harry need to learn more about horcuxes than he already knows in order to survive de-horcruxification?
I think so, the diary was easy enough to destroy, but for items such as Hufflepuff's cup, he must learn how to properly destroy the soul within. Should he melt it down, attempt a spell etc

6. Does anyone think that Dumbledore may have known/suspected that Harry is a horcrux and didn't tell him? Could Albus have been in denial about that possibility for the connection?
Well, Dumbledore has been known to say that he has lots of theories "each as unlikely as the next. It is possible that he toyed with the thought of Harry being a horcrux, and was eager to find out the identities of all the remaining horcruxes, trying to eliminate Harry from his suspicions.

7. When/how might Harry discover that he/scar is a horcrux?
Maybe he finds out when someone says, "Accio Horcrux", and he goes flying towards them

8. Can Harry make use of the connection, despite Voldemort's alleged Occlumency against it?
Dumbledore was very skilled at leglimency, it is possible Harry finds another teacher to train him in Leglimency.