Why did Snape want to see Tonks' new patronus

[SiriusSpells]

HBP p160, US Ed "I meant for Hagrid to get the message," said Tonks, frowning. "Hagrid was late for the start-of-term feast, just like Potter here, so I took it instead. And incidentally," said Snape, standing back to allow Harry to pass him, "I was interested to see your new Patronus."

Fuelpagan quoted this from HBP, I noticed it in the "Could Snape be abusing Felix Felicis?" thread. I thought if Snape was using Felix at that time, why would he need to use it just to see Tonks' patronus? What was so important that Snape needed to see?

[Hes]

I don't think it was anything else then Snape wanting to enjoy another persons misery. Of course he knew Tonks hadn't been happy since everything that had happened in OotP. He wanted to see her patronus to make fun of her, he always seems to enjoy to s****** and gloat.

[NyssaM]

he may not have even gone out of his way to see it, it could have been more like a "oh new patronus, tonks? thats interesting" instead of a "oh i heard tonks has a new patronus and must hunt it down to see what it is" situation. He probably said it because it would be a mean thing to say

[Niamara]

Yeah, I think Snape just said it to be mean. I don't think he really wanted to actually see Tonks' new patronus. Mind you, I haven't read the theory on Snape using Felix, but if he was (and I don't think he was), I'd think it was for something other than getting another opportunity to be mean to Harry, or see Tonks' patronus. Maybe something on the way to the Hogwarts' gates? I don't know.

[SiriusSpells]

Originally Posted by HesHPfan

I don't think it was anything else then Snape wanting to enjoy another persons misery. Of course he knew Tonks hadn't been happy since everything that had happened in OotP. He wanted to see her patronus to make fun of her, he always seems to enjoy to s****** and gloat.

But Snape was in the Order at the time and I never noticed him making fun of anyone except Harry, Harry's father, and Sirius. I don't think he would go out of the way just to make fun of an Order member for no reason when he is in the Order.

Originally Posted by NyssaM

he may not have even gone out of his way to see it, it could have been more like a "oh new patronus, tonks? thats interesting" instead of a "oh i heard tonks has a new patronus and must hunt it down to see what it is" situation. He probably said it because it would be a mean thing to say

I've never seen Snape be that excited over anything except getting Harry in trouble or when he killed Dumbledore and revealed himself as the Half-Blood Prince to Harry.

If he took Felix what would he need to know from Tonks? Did he talk to Tonks after Harry went inside Hogwarts about something?

[Hes]

Originally Posted by SiriusSpells

But Snape was in the Order at the time and I never noticed him making fun of anyone except Harry, Harry's father, and Sirius. I don't think he would go out of the way just to make fun of an Order member for no reason when he is in the Order.

IMO Snape has never had much feeling for anyone except himself, it didn't matter to him of Tonks was a fellow order member. She was obviously hurt by something, it was apparent by the way she looked and acted. He just wanted to rub it in some more. He has always been like this as far as we have seen, he doesn't care about other people's feelings (much).

[NyssaM]

Originally Posted by SiriusSpells

I've never seen Snape be that excited over anything except getting Harry in trouble or when he killed Dumbledore and revealed himself as the Half-Blood Prince to Harry.

I don't think he was hopping around hoping to find someone to insult more like he is just an unpleasant person who does not mind crushing people he feels are inferior. It was a zing and he said it because there was an opportunity to do so.

[HoneyNutBoy]

I think it was just coincidence that he was the one who took the message.

I also think it was less an insult to Tonks than to Lupin. "It looks weak" isn't so much an insult of her magic skills, seeing as a corporeal patronus is good enough - it's an insult to its form. Snape hates Lupin, and as such he mocks Tonks for seeing Lupin as her protector.

[wimblemimble]

I've never seen Snape be that excited over anything except getting Harry in trouble or when he killed Dumbledore and revealed himself as the Half-Blood Prince to Harry.

I don't believe Snape was that excited when he killed Dumbledore. And I shall agree with most people here, he probably just said it because it was a way to bring up the topic of her patronus. However that begs the question, 'why did he word it the way that he did?'

[Night_Sky]

I think he just wanted to hurt her.He wanted to make fun of her in front of Harry.He is not a nice wizard.

[Leslie33]

I also think he just happened to see it. Snape, being Snape HAD to make an insulting comment. If he had complimented her, it would have seemed out of Character. Tonks is also seriously involved with Remus Lupin--one of Snape's "Enemies". He will dispise/hate Remus until the day he dies. Even though Remus has been respectful to him in that he addresses him by Professor Snape, or Severus, Snape still hates him for being a member of "The Marauders". Remus, a WEREWOLF, has Tonks, a Woman who LOVES him and has stayed by his side, despite his infliction. Most people would run the other way. He may be a nice Person, but, they don't want to take the chance. Even though Remus would never flaunt Tonks and say "Look at me Snape, I've got a Woman and you have no one", Snape MUST be envious on some level. Even though I don't see him ever settling down, getting Married and having Children, a part of him must be jealous. Here is a guy who could very easily kill a person when he transforms into a Werewolf. We KNOW it would be unintentional and Remus would feel guilty. I also see him saying "take my life...I'm too much of a risk" or fleeing to a remote Island so he can't hurt anyone.
What I'm trying to say is Snape realizes he is JUDGED by many. People would rather trust their life and future to a man who was bitten by a Werewolf, than Severus Snape, a former Death Eater. He knew that Women would never give him the time of day because they don't want to be judged for being associated with a Slytherin, especially one with Severus Snape's reputation.
In short, he HATES Remus. Tonks dares to date him--though I don't see her as being Snape's type. Since Tonks is DATING--and probably Engaged to Remus--she is now a wrongful target of his hate.
Even if her Patronus was a Unicorn, for him to say "Hey, that is a wicked Patronus" would be giving Remus Lupin credit. It would be giving him a break--which Snape refuses to do. So, no, I don't believe he was there to see her Patronus.
I think he overheard Draco gloating to Crabbe and Goyle about "giving Potter a bloody nose" or something. He wanted a chance to gloat, to make Harry miserable. So even if Hagrid WAS at the table, I see him saying "Hagrid, enjoy dinner, let me help Mr. Potter". He wanted to get Harry while he was down--he wanted to lecture him and give him HELL for being late, even though it was Draco's fault.

[PotterSnicket]

Originally Posted by Leslie33

He will despise Lupin till the day he dies

He doesnt necesarrily hate Lupin. He noticed that Lupin was the only one that didnt laugh. He just seems to dislike him for hanging with James's group

[DudleyDursley]

Snape just came across it, realized that it must be because of Lupin that it changed and threw an insult. He did critisize Sirius and he was in Order. So he probaly just didn't like Lupin because he hung out with Siruis and James.

[Et_tu_Severus]

Snape's appearance at the gate in Book Six is an echo of Book Two--another time when Harry went missing. Interesting that it was not Harry's Head of House who was the one first on the scene to meet him and ascertain his well-being, but Snape.

It is possible Snape preferred to miss all the glorious food at start of term feast for the extremely dubious pleasure of interaction with a boy he disliked (and in Book 6, also with a woman who was pining over a man he disliked just as much--if not more.) The state of Tonks' Patronus could have given Snape not only a clue about her mooning over Lupin [pun intended] but also perhaps provide a rough gauge of her magical strength and fitness in carrying out her Order duties.

That fitness would be very important, particularly in her duties overseeing Harry's safety. That fitness would matter to Snape only if--in spite of his obvious disdain for both of them--he actually cared that Harry wasn't dead in a ditch.

[Araminta]

i dont think he so much wanted to see it... but he just did. that was so mean...to comment on it like that though. cuz he clearly knew about the hwole tonks lupin connection and if he didnt he figured it out then.

[hwyla]

I don't really see this as related to whether or not Snape took Felix Felices.

However, he obviously (since he was an Order member) would have already been told WHAT form (as in Remus/Werewolf) her Patronus took BEFORE he went to the gates. ALL Order members would need to be informed about a patronus change as soon as it was first noticed. The very POINT of the patrounus messages is that they cannot be 'faked'. So as soon as her patronus first changed - every single Order member would have been informed - as a matter of security. How else would they know a message was from Tonks unless they were informed.

Altho' from the sounds of the posts so far on this thread my opinion might be taken badly - I actually think Snape might have been telling her the truth - that her PATRONUS was weak - not that Remus was weak - but that her MAGIC was weak.

Harry could not see it distinctly enough to figure out more than it was a four-legged animal (altho' he apparently figured more than he thought, since at least his guess at Padfoot shows that it looked somewhat canine and not for instance cat-like). Additionally, it would seem that it took her patronus a rather long time to get up to the castle - not a whole lot faster than Harry and Tonks' walking pace.

I think Snape was on her case about how SHE was being weak over Remus. A call to 'snap out of it'. Tonks was apparently WEAK in her magic at the time. She can't metamorph and apparently she couldn't apparate since she WALKED Harry to the gates. (note how worried she was the year before just getting Harry out of the Knight Bus and into the Hogwarts Gates and the BUs was parked just outside). Meanwhile, she had been Harry's sole protection on the long walk to the safety of the Hogwarts gates after a summer FULL of disappearances.

Just think what COULD have happened if Draco had found enough time alone and an isolated fireplace to floo Aunt Bella before the feast?

After all, Harry doesn't get to the Great Hall until time for dessert - he has been 'missing' for quite some time. The full length of the dinner part of the feast, then add in time for the other students to get to the school by carriage and for the sorting of at least 40 first years. The sorting alone must take at least an hour! Harry was last seen by his friends probably over 2 hours ago. I'll bet that it was actually a bit of a relief for teachers to overhear Draco bragging.

Note Snape's other comment to Tonks, made as he closes the gate. That Harry is now SAFE. I think the whole episode is about Tonks allowing her feelings to get in the way of her job - protecting Harry. And Snape calling her on it - telling her to shape up!

[cruplover]

hwyla, that makes great sense to me. Snape gave Harry a warning about wearing his heart on his sleeve, and Tonks patronus change is just as blatant. Worse still, it seems that Harry's great protector (Tonks) was so down in the dumps that she couldn't even produce a patronus clear enough for Harry, who was right there beside her, to tell what it was. Snape's criticism of Tonks patronus was at least two-fold. Because she was so emotionally focused, her patronus changed, betraying her heart more than a bit. However, her magic was weakened too, so the patronus wasn't very focused. Sure, Snape probably would have enjoyed tossing a jab at Lupin, but that was merely icing on the cake. Had Tonks patronus been an elephant, Snape would still likely have remarked on how weak the magic behind the patronus was.

[blue3ski]

I agree with hwyla--my impression was always that Tonks's magical abilities were starting to slip, and Snape noticed and decided to irk her to perhaps motivate her into waking up.

[HedwigOwl]

Snape doesn't like Lupin either, so he maybe he just saw it as an opportunity to disparage Lupin, and perhaps try to make Tonks think less of Lupin. Snape wouldn't want Lupin to be happy.

[hwyla]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

Snape doesn't like Lupin either, so he maybe he just saw it as an opportunity to disparage Lupin, and perhaps try to make Tonks think less of Lupin. Snape wouldn't want Lupin to be happy.

Yes - but 'at that time' Remus was refusing Tonks. Not that I believe Snape was necessarily aware that Remus had told Tonks 'no' - I'm only sure that Snape (and the rest of the Order) must have been told that Tonks' patronus was now represented by Remus.

Molly (at least) was aware that Remus was not returning Tonks' feelings. But I really haven't seen anything that would indicate whether Snape knew it or not.

If I had to guess, I'd say that just the fact that Tonks' magic was flagging was probably an indication that Remus had rejected her.

I'm still wondering about Snape using her first name. I know many think it indicates he was trying to rile her up. But on the other, we've never seen Snape speak to a woman using her first name in front of a student before. I'm not yet decided on the reason.

My best guess is that it will turn out that Tonks was a favorite Slytherin student - part of the reason Slytherin had won the house cups for the 7 years before Harry. Those 7 years WOULD coincide with her Hogwarts years. And she must have been relatively smart to become an auror. It also might explain why ANY Hogwarts student would be shocked to be insulted by Snape - IF she had never been so.

But alternatively - there MIGHT still be SOME connection between Snape and the FamilyBlack of which we are unaware. The only others we ever see Snape call by first names are from the Black family - Draco, Narcissa, Bellatrix.