The Snape Triumvirate: Snape the Obscure

[Latisha]

Originally Posted by Valkonde

Are you kidding? Snape called Lily a Mudblood. That's not something you tell a girl you have a crush on, I don't think.

Okay, your confusing me here, but never mind that

But it is quite common for boys who are self conscienous and not a great amount of self esteem to say or be unfriendly towards girls they are attracted to. It's kind of like throwing people off the idea that they actually like them, therefore avoiding any bullying of the fact. It is also a form of self protection, if the person of their attraction does no like them, then there is nothing to lose as opposed to being rejected. It is also a way of gaining attention, though that would not be the case in the SWM.

Well, that's how it was when I was going to school

[Valkonde]

I suspect I'm confusing a lot of people, jumping back and forth as I am.

I do think Snape likely had some feelings for Lily. I don't think, however, that he was showing it by calling her a Mudblood. I suspect he was trying to save face. What teenage boy, or any boy indeed, would want to be saved from a pair of bullies by a girl? A Gryffindor, no less! The harassment afterwards would be almost as bad as the actual bullying.

Of course, I think after the fact he realized what a truly awful (and hypocritical, since he's a half-blood) thing he'd said, especially if he liked Lily.

[Latisha]

Originally Posted by Valkone

I suspect I'm confusing a lot of people, jumping back and forth as I am.

I do think Snape likely had some feelings for Lily. I don't think, however, that he was showing it by calling her a Mudblood. I suspect he was trying to save face. What teenage boy, or any boy indeed, would want to be saved from a pair of bullies by a girl? A Gryffindor, no less! The harassment afterwards would be almost as bad as the actual bullying.

Of course, I think after the fact he realized what a truly awful (and hypocritical, since he's a half-blood) thing he'd said, especially if he liked Lily.

I totally agree with you. I mean, how would he ever live it down to his fellow Slytherins. Not to mention that most of them turned out to be DEs after school, I can just imagine what they would be like in school.

[mrsweasley51490]

Originally Posted by chparadise

To play a bit of devil's advocate: Hermione had a thing for Ron, but "Oppugno"'d him. People with crushes will sometimes say mean things to the person they have a crush on.

That being said, it is in Snape's personality to be mean. And I do see him hating James and liking Lily. It explains the Harry thing well, and it explains the (feeling I have) that he's on DD's side.

agreed, sometimes when people have a crush on others they tend to call them names or pick on them in order to get thier attention, but i agree also that calling her a mudblood is a little harsh but he might just not have realized how much it could hurt her because it was a word used so much by him. it is also in his personality to be mean and harsh and i dont see him changing that at all.

[TreacleFudge]

Originally Posted by mrsweasley51490

agreed, sometimes when people have a crush on others they tend to call them names or pick on them in order to get thier attention, but i agree also that calling her a mudblood is a little harsh but he might just not have realized how much it could hurt her because it was a word used so much by him. it is also in his personality to be mean and harsh and i dont see him changing that at all.

I agree. The phrase could also have been hammered into him by his Slytherin friends...

[Latisha]

The phrase could also have been hammered into him by his Slytherin friends...

And how irksome would that have been for him. To have to listen to that day in day out and you know that your Dad is a muggle I'm surprised he even stayed in that crowd.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Latisha

And how irksome would that have been for him. To have to listen to that day in day out and you know that your Dad is a muggle I'm surprised he even stayed in that crowd.

While he's in school and a bit afterwards (the DE days), he has to. But then since I think he went to DD's side, he wasn't really in that crowd any more. Though he still pretended to be in the crowd .

[Latisha]

On another note, I was on another thread arguing about something completely different, but might have some impact on Snape's character.

Originally Posted by monster mom

<snip>We also know Harry that was born on July 31, 1980. Because the prophesy says "born as the 7th month dies", we can pretty safely assume that Trelawney made the prophesy sometime after July 1979 (because two 7th months would be too confusing). So we can pretty safely say that the prophecy was made between 1 August 1979 and 31 July 1980. Trelawney's start date at Hogwarts is somewhat nebulous so we can't really look to it for guidance.

We do know that Dumbledore told Harry the prophesy was made shortly before he was born. We can debate the word shortly and how shortly shortly really is, but at a minimum it means that Lily was pregnant with Harry when the prophesy was made. Counting backwards from 31 July, Lily would have gotten pregnant in late October, around Halloween, and she would not have known she was pregnant until late November. That leaves one month, December, in which Trelawney would have relayed the prophesy and Regulus would have learned about it.

While the word shortly is debatable, the weather in JKR's world is pretty predictable. It's hot and dry in the Summer, cool and wet in the fall, warm and damp in the Spring, and there is always a white Christmas. The night Trelawney relayed the prophesy to Dumbledore was described as cold and raining. It could be a fluke, JKR may have noted that it was cold and raining because that was an unusual weather condition, but Dumbledore's words "shortly before you were born" imply that the prophecy was made just a few weeks before Harry was born, not 7 - 8 months before.

Now, how this is relevent is on just how pregnant Lily was when Snape related the part of the prophecy that he had heard to LV, she would have been 8 months pregnant at the time.

Now I don't know how Snape can get away with the "I didn't know he would choose them" excuse to Dumbledore because you can't hide pregnant woman, it's a known fact. Surely if he did love Lily he would have not said anything to LV in order to save her life. Comments anyone?

[OMGzilla]

Originally Posted by Latisha

Now, how this is relevent is on just how pregnant Lily was when Snape related the part of the prophecy that he had heard to LV, she would have been 8 months pregnant at the time.

Now I don't know how Snape can get away with the "I didn't know he would choose them" excuse to Dumbledore because you can't hide pregnant woman, it's a known fact. Surely if he did love Lily he would have not said anything to LV in order to save her life. Comments anyone?

You have a good point - if she had been pregnant that long before the prophecy, one would think Snape would have heard something through the grapevine that his old classmates were expecting a baby. But then, he was steeped in the DEs at that point and it's unlikely the Potters or any of their friends had him over for tea to relate the happy news. So I suppose there's a small chance he really may have been out of the loop and didn't know.

[Latisha]

Originally Posted by OMGzilla

You have a good point - if she had been pregnant that long before the prophecy, one would think Snape would have heard something through the grapevine that his old classmates were expecting a baby.

See, I used to loath the theory that Snape liked Lily and this was one of my arguments. Since I've changed my mind, but still wonder about this, I thought I'd bring it here since it still bugs me.

But then, he was steeped in the DEs at that point and it's unlikely the Potters or any of their friends had him over for tea to relate the happy news. So I suppose there's a small chance he really may have been out of the loop and didn't know.

That's true, still Snape was spying on Dumbledore, who was the head of the Order and principle of Hogwarts. You would also think that those that loved James and talk alots in the circles that Dumbledore goes to, such as Hagrid or Madam Rosmerta would have said something, though not to Snape personally, but in celebration or gossip. I can picture Snape waiting in Three Broomsticks having a butterbeer during Christmas and Madam Rosmerta gossiping with McGonagall and toasting to James and Lily.

[ronjalina]

Originally Posted by Latisha

See, I used to loath the theory that Snape liked Lily and this was one of my arguments. Since I've changed my mind, but still wonder about this, I thought I'd bring it here since it still bugs me.

I´m still not a fan of 'Snape loved Lily' but I won´t go there.

That's true, still Snape was spying on Dumbledore, who was the head of the Order and principle of Hogwarts. You would also think that those that loved James and talk alots in the circles that Dumbledore goes to, such as Hagrid or Madam Rosmerta would have said something, though not to Snape personally, but in celebration or gossip. I can picture Snape waiting in Three Broomsticks having a butterbeer during Christmas and Madam Rosmerta gossiping with McGonagall and toasting to James and Lily.

Snape might have heard that Lily was pregnant but would he exactly have known how far into the pregnancy she was? The prophecy is very specific with referring to a boy born in July. On the other hand, there were probably only few women pregnant who were in the Order. A Snape who loved Lily would certainly find out when the Potter´s baby is due before reporting the prophecy to LV, wouldn´t he? *scratches head*

[Latisha]

Hey Ronjalina, long time no see

Originally Posted by Ronjalina

On the other hand, there were probably only few women pregnant who were in the Order.

Well we know for sure that there were at least 2 that had defied LV three times individually, or with their husbands that were due to bust at any minute.

A Snape who loved Lily would certainly find out when the Potter´s baby is due before reporting the prophecy to LV, wouldn´t he? *scratches head*

That's exactly what I was thinking, so any theories :eyebrow:

[mrsweasley51490]

i dont think snape would have known if she was expecting a baby or not he proboly didnt even care, he was hanging out with death eaters and they really didnt care about anyone else. and snape might just not have put two and two together when herd the profecy i mean he was proboly just so excited to please his master he proboly didnt even think about who it was about.

[ComicBookWorm]

Hey guys. I've been hanging out with the Snevil thread, since it was fun to slam Snape as hard as I wanted, because I do think he is a reprehensible human being, and not everyone in this thread thinks so. But I also think he is fighting (somewhat heroically) against Voldemort and is not evil, and he will probably die saving Harry's life. Also, Lily probably figures in here somewhere. It was great having discussions with you. So before the forum takes the last plunge, I thought I'd give you one last wave and say see you after the book is out in whatever thread is created for Snape.

[Rell]

CBW beat me here

Anyway, I've been over in the villain thread for a few weeks as well. Before that, I'd been on the obscure thread since it started, and I've really liked the discussions around here . Right now, I wouldn't be surprised about either an obscure or villain end for snape, and I'm glad I got the chance to explore both areas. Right now I'm really excited to find out what Snape's true loyalties were ,
thanks for all the great discussions!

[OMGzilla]

Yeah, it's been fun following the discussions here and at the Snevil/SeVillain thread with many of you. I'm looking forward to seeing what side of the fence Snape falls on (I have no doubt he'll fall pretty hard, whichever way he goes). See you all when we get to dissect him again after the release!

[Valkonde]

I was wondering what all the Villian!Snapers were doing here, given we're to keep to one Triumverate thread....

You know, you could've just had "Snape is evil" in your sig and joined the Admitting-I-Could-Be-Wrong Club, but whatever works.

Isn't Obscure great? You can be right no matter what.

We'll see you on the other side, then.

[Chris]

I think the last few hours before the forums close it's safe to mingle a bit - we're all one big happy community, in the end .
In the end, I'm an obscure guy because I can see Snape going either way in DH. My gut feeling is he is on DD's side, but I can't really forgive much of his treatment of students.

[ComicBookWorm]

Originally Posted by Valkonde

I was wondering what all the Villian!Snapers were doing here, given we're to keep to one Triumverate thread....

You know, you could've just had "Snape is evil" in your sig and joined the Admitting-I-Could-Be-Wrong Club, but whatever works.

Isn't Obscure great? You can be right no matter what.

We'll see you on the other side, then.

Oh several of us were in this thread for quite some time. I just thought it might be fun to view Snape from a different angle than Obscure since the time for the book was nearing. I completely agree with Jo's description of Snape--he is deeply horrible. But I think he serves to show us that not all nasty people are bad, and not all good people are nice. Sirius said, "The world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters." I think that also applies to Snape.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm

Oh several of us were in this thread for quite some time. I just thought it might be fun to view Snape from a different angle than Obscure since the time for the book was nearing.

Welcome back. You came back just in time