The Improve Your English Thread v3

[ominous]

Learning Enlgish from TV shows!

How fascinating it sounds!

Anyway, my favorite TV show these days is "The Big Bang Theory" and I learned one expression from the episode 03 in season 02.

"I'll take the bullet" means "I'll do it". So, if you want to volunteer for something, you can say "I'll take the bullet." Am I right here?

What I don't understand from that episode is that why Penny said "Oh my god! I need help!" at the last scene when she accepted Howard's proposal.

[skrewtmaster]

Originally Posted by ominous

"I'll take the bullet" means "I'll do it". So, if you want to volunteer for something, you can say "I'll take the bullet." Am I right here?

"I'll take the bullet" can mean "I'll do it" but it depends on the situation, if someone was in trouble, by saying "I'll take the bullet" would be like saying "I'll take the blame".
Don't just take my word for it though, even my own language confuses me sometimes. English phrases can have lots of different meanings.

[kala_way]

Originally Posted by ominous

Anyway, my favorite TV show these days is "The Big Bang Theory" and I learned one expression from the episode 03 in season 02.

"I'll take the bullet" means "I'll do it". So, if you want to volunteer for something, you can say "I'll take the bullet." Am I right here?

What I don't understand from that episode is that why Penny said "Oh my god! I need help!" at the last scene when she accepted Howard's proposal.

Big Bang Theory is one of my favorites as well, it's hilarious!

You're right that "I'll take the bullet" means "I'll do it", but it usually has the connotation of something bad often a confrontation. Like "who's going to tell Penny that she stinks and needs to go take a shower since she'll probably yell and throw us out"--"I'll take the bullet"

When she said "Oh my god! I need help!", she meant help as in psychological help She realized that she was addicted and not thinking straight if she would go so far as to accept Howard--virtually or otherwise!

[Morning_Star]

One thing I've been wondering about is when to use who and when to use whom. I have seen both, but I can't figure out when to use which of them. Can someone please help me?

[Kat_Suki]

Originally Posted by Morning_Star

One thing I've been wondering about is when to use who and when to use whom. I have seen both, but I can't figure out when to use which of them. Can someone please help me?

Most people mess it up anyway. I just had a test on this though.

Who is a subjective pronoun, a pronoun that performs action, they are the subject.

Whom is an objective pronoun, a pronoun that receives action, they are the object.

If a question begins with a subjective pronoun, you use "who". Example:

• Who, in your opinion, is the best Harry Potter character?
• Harry Potter is a great wizard who is destined to become Head of the Auror Office.
• Who was the youngest seeker in a century?

If a question begins with an objective pronoun, you use "whom". Example:

• Telephone rings. "Hello. Speak to Mr. Potter? Yes, you may. Whom shall I say is calling?"
• Just came from the wizarding polling booths. Really? For whom did you vote?
• Dobby the House-elf, whom we knew and loved, is dead.

Hope that helps!

[Melaszka]

Originally Posted by Kat_Suki

Most people mess it up anyway. I just had a test on this though.

Who is a subjective pronoun, a pronoun that performs action, they are the subject.

Whom is an objective pronoun, a pronoun that receives action, they are the object.

If a question begins with a subjective pronoun, you use "who". Example:

• Who, in your opinion, is the best Harry Potter character?
• Harry Potter is a great wizard who is destined to become Head of the Auror Office.
• Who was the youngest seeker in a century?

If a question begins with an objective pronoun, you use "whom". Example:

• Telephone rings. "Hello. Speak to Mr. Potter? Yes, you may. Whom shall I say is calling?"
• Just came from the wizarding polling booths. Really? For whom did you vote?
• Dobby the House-elf, whom we knew and loved, is dead.

Hope that helps!

Perfectly explained. Although in the telephone example, I'd argue it should be "who" - I wouldn't say "I'll say him is calling", so I wouldn't say "Whom shall I say he is calling?"

I'd also add, though, that "whom" is very formal and has almost died out now in everyday speech. In most everyday contexts, "who" would sound perfectly all right, and in many informal contexts it would actually sound better.

[Kat_Suki]

Originally Posted by Melaszka

Perfectly explained. Although in the telephone example, I'd argue it should be "who" - I wouldn't say "I'll say him is calling", so I wouldn't say "Whom shall I say he is calling?"

Really? *sigh* I thought I'd got it right because of the pronoun acting as the object of the dependant clause.

Well, like I said, most people get it wrong.

I'd also add, though, that "whom" is very formal and has almost died out now in everyday speech. In most everyday contexts, "who" would sound perfectly all right, and in many informal contexts it would actually sound better.

I agree it's a totally 'formal' manner of speech; most people tend to stick to informal speech/slang.

[Morning_Star]

Originally Posted by Kat_Suki

Most people mess it up anyway. I just had a test on this though.

Who is a subjective pronoun, a pronoun that performs action, they are the subject.

Whom is an objective pronoun, a pronoun that receives action, they are the object.

If a question begins with a subjective pronoun, you use "who". Example:

• Who, in your opinion, is the best Harry Potter character?
• Harry Potter is a great wizard who is destined to become Head of the Auror Office.
• Who was the youngest seeker in a century?

If a question begins with an objective pronoun, you use "whom". Example:

• Telephone rings. "Hello. Speak to Mr. Potter? Yes, you may. Whom shall I say is calling?"
• Just came from the wizarding polling booths. Really? For whom did you vote?
• Dobby the House-elf, whom we knew and loved, is dead.

Hope that helps!

Thanks! My English grammar book didn't say it, and my teacher wasn't sure either. But Iknow it's not used that often, even if it is the right form. But now I can impress my teacher, by knowing something she don't!

[Melaszka]

Originally Posted by Kat_Suki

Really? *sigh* I thought I'd got it right because of the pronoun acting as the object of the dependant clause.

Well, like I said, most people get it wrong.

It sounds like it ought to be the object, but it isn't really, because "say" is an intransitive verb and thus doesn't take an object, and the pronoun is acting as the subject of the dependent clause

I'll say [that] he is calling
Who shall I say is calling?

But, actually, the vast majority of PAs and receptionists do, in fact, hypercorrect and say "Whom shall I say is calling?", and people who get it grammatically correct are often perceived as being wrong and using poor grammar.

Sorry, I'm being an annoying pedant - I've obviously got too much time on my hands

[ominous]

Are the following answers all correct?

Whether she is honest is not known. (correct)
If she is honest is not known. (incorrect)

I don't know whether or not he is honest. (correct)
I don't know if or not he is honest. (incorrect)
I don't konw whether he is honest or not. (correct)
I don't know if he is honest or not. (correct)

I can't decide whethr to postpone it or cancel it. (correct)
I can't decide if to postpone it or cancel it. (incorrect)

[vampiricduck]

Those are all entirely correct, yes!
Good grips with the language, wow! I'm impressed!

[Murzim]

Could someone give me a rule for the use of 'whether .. or...' and 'if ...or..'?
Thanks

[vampiricduck]

Whether it rains or not, I will bring my coat.

If it's raining, I will wear my coat.

They both say something along the same lines, but there are reasons why we use them both.

"If" introduces one condition only- in this case, the rain. "Whether" introduces more than one condition- ("whether it rains or not").

"If" is usually not used to add extra conditions (though it can be), and "whether" is there to introduce two options only, usually.

[kala_way]

When you are presenting all possible options you should use 'whether' because it's more limiting. 'If' can have the connotation of other possibilities.

For example:
Sarah didn't know whether David would arrive on Friday or Saturday.
She knows David's coming, there are only 2 possible options for when.

Sarah didn't know if David would arrive on Friday or Saturday.
Put in different contexts this sentence could mean that it's possible he wouldn't arrive at all (he may get held up at work and not come), that she was hoping he wouldn't arrive those days (so she had to hurry to finish her project), that he might also arrive on Thursday (or some other day), etc.

Here's a good site that talks about it: Grammar Girl-If versus whether

[vampiricduck]

I hadn't thought of it that way... Hmm. I was always taught in school that "whether" was the more limiting unless you use "if" in the way you did there, adding more options. I assume all ways are equally as acceptable, and that "whether" simply discusses two options only.

[Murzim]

Thank you for the explanations the example and the link

But I still don't understand why
I don't know if or not he is honest. is incorrect
whereas
I don't know if he is honest or not. is correct

I wouldn't have used the first, because it sounds odd, but I don't know why.

[Mundungus Fletc]

Originally Posted by Murzim

Thank you for the explanations the example and the link

But I still don't understand why
I don't know if or not he is honest. is incorrect
whereas
I don't know if he is honest or not. is correct

I wouldn't have used the first, because it sounds odd, but I don't know why.

How a sentence sounds is usually a pretty good steer as to whether it is right or not. The first is comprehensible with some effort, the second instantly understandable.

[kala_way]

Originally Posted by Murzim

Thank you for the explanations the example and the link

But I still don't understand why
I don't know if or not he is honest. is incorrect
whereas
I don't know if he is honest or not. is correct

I wouldn't have used the first, because it sounds odd, but I don't know why.

'Whether or not' is a set phrase, if a bit redundant. Here's another discussion about that phrase specifically: "If or not"
I can't explain it much better than they have there

[Murzim]

Thanks you two , pain in the english.com is great

Originally Posted by Mundungus Fletc

How a sentence sounds is usually a pretty good steer as to whether it is right or not.

That's how I usually do it, but still I sometimes wonder whether my feelings are right - and in German there would usually be a rule.

I have another question: What's the difference in use between 1. marriage 2. wedding 3. nuptials ?

[Melaszka]

Originally Posted by Murzim

Thanks you two , pain in the english.com is great
That's how I usually do it, but still I sometimes wonder whether my feelings are right - and in German there would usually be a rule.

I have another question: What's the difference in use between 1. marriage 2. wedding 3. nuptials ?

I'd say that "wedding" is the normal word for the day you get married, the ceremony itself and the reception afterwards (e.g. "I'm going to my cousin's wedding next week", "We're having a register office wedding, not a church wedding", "He got drunk at the wedding he went to last week"). It can also be used adjectivally to describe most things to do with the wedding ("wedding dress", "wedding cake", "wedding reception", "wedding album", "wedding night", but NB "marriage certificate")

"marriage" refers to (a) the relationship between two married people (e.g. "John and Sue have a very happy marriage", "One in three marriages now end in divorce").
(b) the general institution of marriage ("Marriage has become less popular since the 1950s", "Love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage")
(c) the acquisition of, or conferral of, the legal status of marriage ("The vicar performed 200 marriages last year", "Since our marriage in 2004, we have moved house 4 times", the official announcement in a newspaper might say "The marriage is announced between John Brown and Susan Jones"). The piece of paper which proves your married status is a "marriage certificate" and churches/register offices keep a "register of marriages"
(d) because of (c), in highly formal English it means "wedding" (e.g. the invitation to a posh wedding will say "Mr and Mrs Jones cordially request the presence of Mr Joe Bloggs at the marriage of their daughter, Susan, to...". ), but you would never use it to mean "wedding" in speech (and you can't use it adjectivally to describe things to do with the wedding "marriage cake", "marriage dress" etc sound totally wrong).

"nuptials" is an archaic word for "wedding", but wouldn't be used nowadays, except in jest or possibly in a literary context