The Improve Your English Thread v3

[Pox Voldius]

Originally Posted by ominous

I have another grammar question here.

Q. The total amount due must be received by the due date, which is printed on the lower lefthand corner of your bill. Please enclose the bottom portion of your bill with your payment. This will ______ that your payment is credited appropriately.

(A) prove (B) ensure (C) include (D) clarify

I know (C) and (D) are not the right answer. However, aren't (A) and (B) both the correct answer? The textbook says (B) is the only correct one.

No, (A) wouldn't make sense in this context, because it is the clerk that receives your payment who will be crediting the payment to your account. You, the person paying the bill, are not trying to "prove" anything here, because nothing is being disputed. They are just telling you to send the bottom portion of the bill with your payment to make sure that the clerk that receives your payment knows which account the payment is for (and also so that clerk won't have to waste time trying to look up your name in a database in order to match your payment to your billing account). That's why only (B) "ensure" is correct.

[ominous]

I'm gonna go to England to study TESOL at the Institute of Education this October.
Getting my ears accustomed to British English accent and sounds, I began dictating a BBC TV drama "Doctor Who". Do you think it will be helpful? I don't like to be a man who is in the middle of nowhere. Please cheer me up.

[arithmancer]

Sure, I think it should help! It might not cover the whole range of accents you'll hear on the street (I met a couple of people I could not understand for the life of me anymore than they understood me, my one time in London , and I've lived my whole life in the US). But people you'll meet at an educational institute and the accent that might be used in instruction will probably be very similar.

I hope you have a great trip and make excellent progress in your education! What is TESOL, by the way?

[ominous]

TESOL is Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages. Some universities in England (and also in America) offer this subject.

[mykoko1998]

Yaxley waited, but Voldemort did not speak, so he went on. “Dawlish, the Auror, let slip that Potter will not be moved until the thirtieth, the night before the boy turns seventeen.”
From Deathly Hallow

Is "until the thirtieth" 31th or 30th? 'Cos the Vietnamese verison [Bảo Bối Tử Thần] tranlates it was 31th.So I dunno or Jo's Meaning is 31th( Harry's Birthday).Thank You!!!

Potter will not be moved until the thirtieth

From the phrasing, the thirtieth sounds as though it is later than "Saturday next", which might help us narrow down the date of the current chapter's action.

[From :http://hp-lexicon.org/about/books/dh/rg-dh01.html]

[Vita]

thirtith is the 30th

The 31st would be spelled "thirty first"

[Hysteria]

TESOL is Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages. Some universities in England (and also in America) offer this subject.

In Australia it's called LOTE. Languages Other Than English.

[canismajoris]

Originally Posted by Pox Voldius

That's why only (B) "ensure" is correct.

Actually in the business world it wouldn't surprise me to see any of those.

And once again, I understand the concept of this thread, but I really would like to warn people against approaching this with a right/wrong dichotomy in mind. Lots of things a native speaker might naturally say would not be narrowly defined as correct if you look in a style or grammar reference book. But this thread is about improving people's English skills, which to me means exposure to actual native tendencies in English (whatever they may be). So I'm not here just to give people answers to a test, and I don't think anyone else should be either, which means that right and wrong don't really need to be part of the discussion.

Because for one thing, you'd have a devil of a time convincing me how "prove" would be wrong in that sentence. It may not especially make sense and it may not be what I'd expect, but it really wouldn't surprise me either, and I think we'd all understand what it was supposed to mean.

[ominous]

It is an article of a companies law.

References in this Law to a body corporate -

(a) include a body corporate incorporated outside Jersey but do not include a corporate sole;


What is "a corporate sole"?

[Vita]

from wiki In English Law, a corporation sole is a legal entity consisting of a single ('sole') incorporated office, occupied by a single ('sole') man or woman. This allows a corporation (usually a religious corporation) to pass vertically in time from one office holder to the next successor-in-office, giving the position legal continuity with each subsequent office holder having identical powers to his predecessor.

More here

For example, Queen Elizabeth will one day pass her title along her office (the monarch) to Prince Charles and so on. I hope it makes a little sense Perhaps someone will explain it better than I.

[Murzim]

Originally Posted by mykoko1998

Is "until the thirtieth" 31th or 30th? 'Cos the Vietnamese verison [Bảo Bối Tử Thần] tranlates it was 31th.So I dunno or Jo's Meaning is 31th( Harry's Birthday).Thank You!!!

(As far as I know) the 'night of the thirtieth' is between the evening of the 30th and the morning of the 31st, because on the 31st the charm would no longer protect Harry (If Voldemort hadn't ...) . Possibly in Vietnamese the night is given the name of the following day instead of the preceding ?

[featherfish81]

Originally Posted by canismajoris

Actually in the business world it wouldn't surprise me to see any of those.

And once again, I understand the concept of this thread, but I really would like to warn people against approaching this with a right/wrong dichotomy in mind. Lots of things a native speaker might naturally say would not be narrowly defined as correct if you look in a style or grammar reference book. But this thread is about improving people's English skills, which to me means exposure to actual native tendencies in English (whatever they may be). So I'm not here just to give people answers to a test, and I don't think anyone else should be either, which means that right and wrong don't really need to be part of the discussion.

Because for one thing, you'd have a devil of a time convincing me how "prove" would be wrong in that sentence. It may not especially make sense and it may not be what I'd expect, but it really wouldn't surprise me either, and I think we'd all understand what it was supposed to mean.

Because including the bottom portion of the bill will not prove that your payment was credited appropriately. You would need a receipt for that. And when you mail in the payment, it hasn't been credited appropriately yet (since they haven't yet received it) so there is no way to prove that it has been done.

I understand the warning to not be too much of a stickler for textbook answers, because people asking the questions want to understand colloquiallisms and typical speech as well, and I think overall the posters on this thread try to do that, even including both sides of the pond. But this was a bad example to pick, IMO.

[canismajoris]

Originally Posted by featherfish81

Because including the bottom portion of the bill will not prove that your payment was credited appropriately. You would need a receipt for that. And when you mail in the payment, it hasn't been credited appropriately yet (since they haven't yet received it) so there is no way to prove that it has been done.

I understand the warning to not be too much of a stickler for textbook answers, because people asking the questions want to understand colloquiallisms and typical speech as well, and I think overall the posters on this thread try to do that, even including both sides of the pond. But this was a bad example to pick, IMO.

Heh, no. The point was not that "prove" is the word that should be used in that sentence, the point was that it would not be at all surprising to see it there. The intent of the person who wrote such a thing would be obvious, because as you point there's only one reasonable expectation for what that sentence may mean. So whether prove means anything at all relevant, how can it still be wrong if I understood it?

I got an e-mail the other day at work warning me about "an absorbent amount of junk mail." That is obviously not the word most of us would use, but there was no doubt about what was intended. I'm not encouraging this by any means, but it would be lunacy to suggest that native speakers always say things that would be considered "the right answer."

[ominous]

Here is my English translation for the information of Jeju Museum of Modern Art and Jeoji Culture & Artitsts Village (Jeju and Jeoji are the names of a place).
Would you kindly proofread this?

The background of establishing the museum
In 21st century, culture becomes a common language and we all seek richness in life through sharing culture and art under the enormous cultural environments.
Located in the center of Jeoji Culture & Artists Village, where the beautiful environment is well preserved, Jeju Museum of Modern Art is dedicated to giving opportunities for visitors to enjoy high-quality culture and art through cultural planning.

How to operate the museum
In the future, Jeju Museum of Modern Art will offer people a chance to appreciate culture and art with various contemporary art exhibitions, events for cultural experiences and etc.

Facilities

History of the museum
The plan of setting up Jeoji Culture & Artists Village was established.
The basic plan of constructing the museum was established.
Invitation to the public for the design of the museum was held and Architect Seok-yoon, Kim’s work was selected.
The construction of the museum began.
Painter Heung-sou, Kim donated his works (20 pieces).
Painter Gwang-jin, Park donated his works (149 pieces).
The International Sculpture Symposium was held.
Jeju Museum of Modern Art was completed.
The organization of Jeju Museum of Modern Art was established.
Jeju Museum of Modern Art opened.

Art Gallery
Under the theme of harmonious coexistence with nature, the art gallery focuses on both the harmony with the surrounding environment and functions as a modern art gallery building facilitating the communication between nature and art.

Art Shop
This is the place for purchasing various products inspired by art works and also functions as a resting place and a library equipped with different reading materials about art.

Sculpture Park
We held the International Sculpture Symposium and with that as a momentum, we set up the sculpture park with nine pieces of sculpture from eminent sculptors home and abroad and works from children. The design of the sculpture park paid due regard to the connectedness between the art gallery and the park.

Outdoor Stage
Located near the art gallery, the outdoor stage is the perfect place for art performances, lectures and entertainment bonding the audience into one.

Creation Studio
Creation Studio with a duplex structure offers spaces for creating art works and convenience of living to artists at the same time.

Information on Art Gallery

Main Exhibition Hall

Special Exhibition at the main exhibition hall
Heung-sou, Kim’s harmonism will be remembered and appreciated for a long time in art history by contributing to modern art culture. I am happy for being able to prove this.
– Pierre Restany (art critic, France) L’OEIL June 1990

Fusion between figurative art and abstract art: Declaration of Plasticism Art
Yin and Yang compose directly-opposed poles. However, when they are consonant to each other and make one world, it is possible for us to approach the perfection. Art is no exception to this. Ever since abstract art appeared, in the world of artists, figurative art and abstract art have been incompatible repeatedly. Realism expression can be seen as trapped in the frame, while abstract expression depends much on contingency. Therefore, being inclined to either of one means it is in imperfect state.

Like Yin and Yang reach the perfection by uniting as one, when figurative art and abstract art dissolve into and reach the harmony, the new world of art which is beyond the conventional concepts of the formative arts.

This is not quibbling.

When contingent factors, which are in their climax, harmonize with the inevitability of realism, then we can have deeper and more profound creativity of art.

-Kimsou (Heung-sou, Kim) July 7, 1977

Special Exhibition at the main exhibition hall
Works of Painter Gwang-jin, Park

Main Collection


Subsidiary Facilities
Sculpture Park
Children Sculpture Park
Creation Studio
Outdoor Stage

Cultural Event

Exhibition

Coexistence with Nature

The plan of establishing Jeoji Culture & Artists Village was originated from a policy for revitalizing local economy in 1999 in those days of the Asian Financial Crisis and began with small-scale residential land development. After that, the local government realizing the possibility of Jeoji Culture & Artists Village as a local specialization development industry based on the clean environment of Jeju mid-mountainous area and Jeoji Oreum set up a basic plan for constructing Jeoji Culture & Artists Village and pushed forward this project systematically. A public art gallery was considered as a centerpiece of art & culture of the village under the theme of culture & art coexisting with nature.
Today, 48 artists ranging from painters, sculptors, calligraphers and etc. have bought house lots and 21 buildings are under construction. The spaces for art creation keep forming itself.

Map of Jeoji Culture & Artists Village

[canismajoris]

I don't have much time, but I'd be glad to look at a portion of it:

The background of establishing the museum
In 21st century, culture becomes a common language and we all seek richness in life through sharing culture and art under the enormous cultural environments.
Located in the center of Jeoji Culture & Artists Village, where the beautiful environment is well preserved, Jeju Museum of Modern Art is dedicated to giving opportunities for visitors to enjoy high-quality culture and art through cultural planning.

I don't know if the first line really means much to me:

I'm not sure if the tense of the first part really works for me. My ears would expect a past participle there, since the 21st century has already begun: "culture has become a common language".

Next, it's a little unclear what "the enormous cultural environments" exactly are. It might be good to be a bit less definite, since we're unaware of any enormous cultural environment, let alone THE one you're talking about. And perhaps avoid an adjective like "enormous" that to my ears implies huge physical size where you may want something more indicative of depth and breadth of scope (since a cultural environment also seems like an abstract thing until you actually describe it later on).

Additionally, I'm not sure if a first-person pronoun is called for at the outset, since "we" aren't really aware of what we're looking at yet. Changing that to a third-person noun may not be what you're going for, but I think it seems presumptuous to say that we all seek something that hasn't really been established in a compelling way.

And there's nothing in particular grammatically unusual about the last part, but I have no idea what "cultural planning" is. It may also be a good idea to specify what comprises "culture and art" more specifically, because culture is one of those things that is hard to really visually conceptualize.

How to operate the museum
In the future, Jeju Museum of Modern Art will offer people a chance to appreciate culture and art with various contemporary art exhibitions, events for cultural experiences and etc.

You may not want to end a sentence with "and etc.", because however much more there may be, there has to be a more meaningful way to summarize that. Even saying "and much more" would work better for me.

Well I hope my suggestions aren't impertinent--I'm mostly looking at style here, so if anyone out there disagrees feel free to discuss.

[Tenshi]

What's the difference between "underneath" and "under" and between "apparently" and "obviously"?

[Pox Voldius]

I can't quite put my finger on the difference in usage between "underneath" and "under", but I think a lot of people use them interchangeably. I know there are certain situations where I'm more likely to use "under" and others where I'm more likely to use "underneath", but I'm not really sure what the rule is that I'm using, or if it's just habit.

"Apparently" is for when there's some doubt, or when the information that you're relaying came from someone else and you're not a first-hand witness of it. (Or for being sarcastic about the information that you're relaying.)

"Obviously" is for when you think anyone should be able to see whatever it is that you're referring to, and you have no doubt whatsoever about what you're saying (or you want people to think that you have no doubt). (Or for when you're saying something that someone might try to argue with you about, and you want to make it look like there's nothing to argue.)

[Though, don't take those as the only situations in which "apparently" and "obviously" are used, because there's probably more that I've forgotten to list.]

edit:

Actually, I think I've just put my finger one of the rules I use (not consciously) in regards to "underneath" vs. "under". I think I'm more likely to use "under" if I follow that immediately with saying what the thing is under (example: "It's under the chair."), and more likely to use "underneath" if I'm giving a short answer to a question without stating or repeating what the thing is under (example: "Is it on the chair?" -- "No, it's underneath.")... but that might just be me...

edit 2:

Doing some quick research on the Internet, it seems that "underneath" can be used as a noun (to mean the underside of something) while "under" cannot (according to the dictionary on Answers.com). And apparently the word "underneath" comes from the Middle English undernethe, which in turn comes from the Old English underneothan, which breaks down to under ("under") + neothan ("below") ...which would seem to indicate that saying "underneath" as opposed to "under" could be used as a way to emphasise the position of one thing being underneath another thing.

edit 3:

The debate on this board, raises the point that "underneath" often implies that one thing is directly below or covered by another. And around post #18 there, someone points out that saying "under the tree" would make them think a thing was below the branches of that tree somewhere, whereas saying "underneath the tree" would make them think the thing was buried in the ground below the roots of the tree. I think I agree with this.

[Noleme]

Hi, I was wondering if someone could tell me what the line "I've had a red light off-the-wrist without me even getting kissed" in "Far Far Away" means? I cannot seem to find it in any dictionary. I vaguely suspect it might be about the red light district or something of that kind, but I'd prefer to be sure before translating the song with my students. Thanks for any help.

[Tenshi]

Thanks Pox!

Originally Posted by Pox Voldius

The debate on this board, raises the point that "underneath" often implies that one thing is directly below or covered by another. And around post #18 there, someone points out that saying "under the tree" would make them think a thing was below the branches of that tree somewhere, whereas saying "underneath the tree" would make them think the thing was buried in the ground below the roots of the tree. I think I agree with this.

Actually that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure.

[ominous]

Is this Okay?

The following is an abstract of a thesis.
A guy of the thesis asked me to translate his abstract into an English version.
Would you proof-read it for me?

A study on self-esteem, loneliness and satisfaction with life of old people who participate in programs of promoting health for old people.

Yoo, Sunghoon
Majored in Physical Education, Graduate School of Education, Jeju National University
Supervising Professor: Lim, Sangyong

This study aims to consider the necessity of programs of promoting health for old people and reveal illustratively how the participation of these programs affects old people’s self-esteem, loneliness and satisfaction at times when issues of old people from low birthrate, economic growth, medical and scientific development gains increasing attention as social issues and governments become more and more interested in the welfare of old people as a major policy.

In order to fulfill these purposes, I set up two groups of old people aged over 60 and each group had 30 members (30 people of experimental group and 30 people of control group). The old people in the experimental group participated in programs in 16 times (8 weeks, 2 times a week, 1 hour for 1 time) and the people in the control group did not participate in any of these programs. The old people in this study were surveyed before and after the programs through Self-Esteem Inventory, UCLA Loneliness Scale and The Satisfaction With Life (SWLS). The data collected from the surveys were analyzed through SPSS program (ver. 12.0) which conducts independent sample t-tests and paired sample t-tests. The following results were obtained by analyzing the data using these methods and process.

1. Self-esteem measured after the programs showed higher scores than that measured before them. Loneliness scale was in lower level in all sub factors after the participation of the programs than that was in the same factors before the experience of the programs and satisfaction with life was revealed that it was higher in all sub factors after undertaking the programs than before taking part in the programs.

2. The members of the experimental group have higher level of self-esteem than those in the control group. Also the old people in the experimental group showed the lower level of loneliness in all sub factors and higher level of satisfaction with life in all sub factors than the people in the control group.

3. There were statistically significant differences in self-esteem, alienation from social relations and physical and social satisfaction with life according to how continuously they participated in the programs.