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The Mysterious Spell



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  #1  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 10:34 pm
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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The Mysterious Spell

Discussion of the editorial The Mysterious Spell by Greg.


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  #2  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 10:59 pm
akhe  Male.gif akhe is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

I think this is a fantastic editorial. I really hope that JKR clarifies the battle between D and V. I've got my fingers crossed that we can see Grindlewald vs Dumbledore in the Pensieve. But, i wonder how he will learn this spell? You know how teenage wizards can produce uncontrolled magic when they have very strong emotions running through them, well couldn't Harry control his emotions and force them into a spell destroying Voldy without actually knowing the spell itself?


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  #3  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 11:14 pm
lafemmenissa  Female.gif lafemmenissa is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

I agree that Harry will not and cannot perform the AK and that he will not be "killing" Voldy. It is a good guess that he will have to find out what that spell that Dumbledore tried to use on Voldy! I have wondered for a while now what that spell was...

Good job!

all the best,
la femme


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  #4  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 11:36 pm
bluejay_haley  Female.gif bluejay_haley is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

I agree with what you are saying, Harry would never lower himself to Voldemort's level, he is pure of heart. As for the mysterious spell Dumbledore preformed in OOTP, Jo did say we will learn just what that spell was and what it did. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.


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  #5  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 11:45 pm
Gmariam  Female.gif Gmariam is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

Good piece! I too don't want to see Harry use the Avada Kedavra curse on Voldemort, and have always thought that there must be a spell that works the opposite way. AK uses hate to power the spell, why can't there be a spell that needs love to power it? I absolutely think that's possible. However, I had never considered it to be the spell that Dumbledore used in the MoM in Book Five - good call! JKR did say we would see that spell again - why would we need to, if it wasn't crucial to the upcoming battle? I think it very possible this is the spell that Harry might use to defeat Voldemort.
The problem, however, is that Voldemort deflected the spell cast by Dumbledore; Harry will have to put every iota of love he can into casting it if he hopes to do what Dumbledore could not, and break Voldemort's shield. It will be tough.
Still, a good look at how it might happen!
~Gina


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Old October 3rd, 2006, 1:22 am
franny_garou  Female.gif franny_garou is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

I think you're on the right path, but I wonder if it might not be a spell...remember that locked room in the DoM? The room that contained something that Harry had vast quantities of, and Voldemort had none at all? Well, that's the most powerful, most dangerous and most mysterious room of all...the Room of Love.
What if somehow, Harry & LV ended up in this room...Harry would survive because his soul is intact, whereas LV would be (very painfully) destroyed. Kinda like a fish that can't breathe out of water...
How they would get there remains a mystery (might have to do with JK's 'DD & James' cloak question), but it could even be a surprise to them both...

Oh man, I'm sure JKR has a ton of surprises in store for us!


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  #7  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 1:48 am
american_allie  Female.gif american_allie is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

Good editorial, I hadn't really ever thought of that. Imagine that! Well it was well said. I have always thought that Grindewald was not killed but "put at right" in some way. One of my friends thinks that Voldemort may not die but be redeemed. I find this kinda wishy-wasy considering all the wrong would be hard to right. We know Dumbledore does not beleive that Horcurxes are good, that is why you can't even find a book on them in the library. I think killing goes hand in hand with spliting soul, close enough that Dumbledore would prevent it if at all possible. Then again, to contridict my self, did Dumbledore let Quirrel die? He seemed to know that Harry was going to try for it, so did he know that Quirrel would? Urh1 Dumbleodre confuses me! Ok so going with my gut on Dumbldore, I agree with your editorial but is there more? of course so... there always is!


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  #8  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 1:58 am
halo2  Undisclosed.gif halo2 is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

If that spell is the key, then don't you think Dumbledore would have at least told Harry of the spell. I don't think it will be a spell of love that defeats Voldemort.
It will be love but not a spell. And if it is that spell then why can't Dumbledore defeat Voldy with it. Its a more complicated reason than just a simple spell.

And didn't Harry technically kill Quirrel?


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  #9  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 2:29 am
trombonegeek  Female.gif trombonegeek is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

This is a really interesting theory. I must admit, I hadn't thought of it before. It also got me thinking about other ways Harry's love may play a part in destroying Voldermort. I think it is quite possible that what happened the first time Harry faced Voldermort (when his parents died), may happen again. The only reason Voldermort was not killed that night was because he had horcruxes. I am assuming that Harry will destroy all the horcruxes before he faces Voldermort again. If Voldermort throws another Avada Kedavra at Harry, and the power of all those who love Harry (his mother, Ron & Hermione, Ginny, all the other Weasleys) and the love Harry has for them in return (particularly Ginny) causes the curse to be thrown back at Voldermort, Voldermort will actually die this time. As for Harry, last time he escaped with little more than a scar, could his scar possibly dissapear??? Jo has said that she plans the last word of the book to be "scar." Anyway, this is just another theory to add to the pot. Personally, I am not entirely sure that Harry will survive his final encounter with the Dark Lord. The line in HBP, in which Harry says he intends to take as many DeathEaters and hopefully Voldermort with him if he dies doesn't sit well with me. But I trust Jo will make everything work out in the end, whether Harry ends up with Lily, James, Sirius, and Dumbledore or Ron, Hermione, and Ginny in the end.


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  #10  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 2:53 am
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Desraelda  Female.gif Desraelda is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmariam View Post
AK uses hate to power the spell, why can't there be a spell that needs love to power it? I absolutely think that's possible.
That may be, but I think that if there were such a spell, Albus would have left some clues. He does leave Harry to figure things out for himself, but he does give him some guidance, like the Mirror of Erised or sending Harry the invisibility cloak.

It seems like Voldemort was able to block Albus' spell rather easily. Even if Harry is able to figure out the spell, he's going to have to take Voldemort by surprise and get close enough to cast it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo2 View Post
And didn't Harry technically kill Quirrel?
Quirrell died when Vapormort left his body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trombonegeek View Post
If Voldermort throws another Avada Kedavra at Harry, and the power of all those who love Harry (his mother, Ron & Hermione, Ginny, all the other Weasleys) and the love Harry has for them in return (particularly Ginny) causes the curse to be thrown back at Voldermort, Voldermort will actually die this time.
This is close to what I've been thinking for a while. I hadn't thought about the AK being thrown back on Voldy, but I felt that all those people who love Harry will make a protective shield or even a love-type patronus.

Quote:
“We both know that there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom,” Dumbledore said calmly.
I think Dumbledore was speaking about things like making Voldemort an object of ridicule or exposing him for who he is or even stripping him of his magical powers and forcing him to live as a Squib or even (heaven forfend) a muggle.


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  #11  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 3:07 am
sriharish  Male.gif sriharish is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

Harry can use dark magic if he wants to, it’s not like he cannot- sometimes we do know Harry gets bit carried away, just look at Sectumsempra- where did that come from? Even Snape was surprised and What about weak Cruciatus curse at the first attempt? This is a indication that Harry will or can use Dark spells against Voldemort/Deatheaters mainly because he has lost so many important people in this life.

Remember Voldemort marked him as equal, Harry’s powers is equal to that of Voldemort – so that still has more role in the series. I personally think Harry’s AK Curse will not work properly and Voldemort will be the receiving end of the mixture of Killing Curse and Power of Love. Remember what Dumbledore says “At the point of death he may be aware of his loss”, Voldemort will realize what is Love in the end.

Quote from HBP:

"The old argument," he said softly. "But nothing I have seen in the world has supported your famous pronouncements that love is more powerful than my kind of magic, Dumbledore."

"Perhaps you have been looking in the wrong places," suggested Dumbledore.

PS: I also like Lady Lupin's theory of Dementor betraying and sucking Voldies Soul


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  #12  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 3:57 am
LunarSlave  Undisclosed.gif LunarSlave is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

It's not a definite that this spell was a spell that can destroy without killing. I believe that Voldemort merely said "You do not seek to kill me?" because Dumbledore was obviously not trying to kill him in that battle. Furthermore, the word usage of destroy seems to indicate behind mere physical destruction, and I doubt a spell can simply doing that.

But you could be right too


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  #13  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 5:20 am
Bowtruckle  Undisclosed.gif Bowtruckle is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

Good thinking but aren't you forgetting that Harry's wand is all but useless when used against Voldemort's.......



Last edited by Bowtruckle; October 3rd, 2006 at 6:27 am.
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  #14  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 10:53 am
Mellilot  Female.gif Mellilot is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

I doubt that the spell Dumbledore used then will eventually be part of the "power the dark lord knows not" way of defeating Voldemort. When he encountered the spell he knew what it was, or at least what it did. He did not sneer at the kind of emotion being used.
Dumbledore keeps saying there are worse things than death. It seems illogical to say Harry isn't evil enough to murder, but is bad enough to do worse. From what we've seen of Harry and his magic in the past I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't accidentally set into motion (or believe he had) a series of events which result in Voldemort begging for death in a pitiable state. Voldemort will be suffering a worse fate than death and Harry will pity him enough to release him from that state.
Of course, Harry has a long way, emotionally, to go before he can do there but he's certainly on the right path. He's felt, is feeling, very sorry for the defeated Malfoy - his childhood rival; something Snape could never do.


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  #15  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 11:05 am
Auror Harry  Undisclosed.gif Auror Harry is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

Sounds good.


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  #16  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 2:31 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

I do find it hard to think of killing Voldemort as murder.

JKR: Dealing with bereavement is a strong part of the books. Dealing with loss. Yes. I can't elaborate as much as I'd like to on that because I have three more books to go and this is not a sales pitch, you can get them out of the library and you don't have to buy them, I'm just saying that I will ruin future blocks if I elaborate on that too much. But it's a strong central theme - dealing with death, yeah, and facing up to death.

J.K. Rowling Interview," CBCNewsWorld: Hot Type, July 13, 2000

So far, her approach to death has been fairly realistic: not even magic can bring back the dead. So I don't think she's going to say that people's love for Harry will save him. That would imply that those who are killed are not loved, and that's obviously not true--even in the series. Lily's love saved Harry, but Lily herself was loved and died.


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  #17  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 2:42 pm
Opaxia  Female.gif Opaxia is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

All I can really think of here is the care-bear count down against no/evil heart, when someone mentions a spell of pure love.
Quote:
Posted by Mellilot:
Dumbledore keeps saying there are worse things than death. It seems illogical to say Harry isn't evil enough to murder, but is bad enough to do worse.
It would be a worse thing to happen to Voldemort, not necessarily a worse thing for Harry to do. As Voldemort is incapable of the whole love emotional range, I doubt that Harry would be pulling off some mob-esk killing of Voldemort's nearest and dearest. (Which would be a worse than killing, if the guy would actually care. But Voldemort didn't, because he killed his own family...) There are plenty of things Harry could do that would be worse, without being evil.


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Last edited by Opaxia; October 3rd, 2006 at 2:44 pm. Reason: Forgot to say who the quote belonged to...
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  #18  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 4:13 pm
RazorVenom  Male.gif RazorVenom is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

Is everyone completely forgetting the interview?

"ES: Our other "Ask Jo" question (the one about James and Lily's sacrifices), was from Maria Vlasiou, who is 25, of the Netherlands. And then the third is from Helen Poole, 18, from Thirsk, Yorkshire - also one of the Plot Thickens fan book authors. It's the one about Grindelwald, which I'm sure you've been gearing up for us to ask.

JKR: Uh-huh.

ES: Clearly -

JKR: Come on then, remind me. Is he dead?

ES: Yeah, is he dead?

JKR: Yeah, he is.

ES: Is he important?

JKR: [regretful] Ohhh...

ES: You don't have to answer but can you give us some backstory on him?

JKR: I'm going to tell you as much as I told someone earlier who asked me. You know Owen who won the [UK television] competition to interview me? He asked about Grindelwald [pronounced "Grindelvald" HMM...]. He said, "Is it coincidence that he died in 1945," and I said no. It amuses me to make allusions to things that were happening in the Muggle world, so my feeling would be that while there's a global Muggle war going on, there's also a global wizarding war going on.

ES: Does he have any connection to -

JKR: I have no comment to make on that subject.

[Laughter]

MA: Do they feed each other, the Muggle and wizarding wars?

JKR: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Mmm.

MA: You've gone very quiet.

[All laugh; JKR maniacally]

MA: We like when you get very quiet, it means -

ES: You're clearly hiding something."


We know for a fact that Grindelwald was defeated by Dumbledore, and that Grindelwald is dead. That being said, we do not know that it was Dumbledore actually killed Grindelwald (there is no canon, as there is nothing that states that he killed him). However, and I know this is a stretch, but maybe Dumbledore knows of a spell to turn a wizard into a muggle, and he has a connection to Hitler, in fact he may very well BE Hitler (like I said, it's a stretch). As the history shows us (or at least as I remember it showing us), Hitler commited suicide. Going with the Grindelwald is Hitler who was muggleized by Dumbledore theory, what if in fact he commited suicide because he was no longer a wizard. A strange theory, and most likely one that has been at least been tossed out there, but a theory nonetheless.


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  #19  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 4:18 pm
YaMo YaMo is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

This editorial sucks.


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  #20  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 4:35 pm
greymax  Undisclosed.gif greymax is offline
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Re: The Mysterious Spell

In a time of war, a combatant who kills a member of the oposing force is not a Murderer. Harry will kill Voldy. Dumbeldore intends Harry to kil Voldy... why else would they wory about the Horcruxs?

I agree it will not be the AK... I think Hary will only use that one on Snape...

It will all boil down to love... Harry's love for Ginny.


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