Harry Potter's Power

[The Obsesser]

This is a well-written editorial, but I don't think that it really contributes anything. It does place a lot of trust in canon - too much trust, if you ask me, and not enough leaps of faith, which made it quite boring for me to read.

The point about Harry's heightened power when he's trying to protect those he loves is a good one, but it doesn't manifest itself at all. I can think of dozens of different trails the author could take with this theory, but he just kind of drops it and starts talking about how he thinks that the Death Eaters will attack at Fleur's wedding. Absolutely no follow-up whatsoever.

I agree with silverinkpot:

Finally, Snape knows more than you think about Harry's abilities. He's a spy - he was lying to Bellatrix. The last thing a spy would tell Bella is that he thought Harry was as powerful as Voldemort! And in some ways, Harry is just a normal young wizard. But Snape knows that Harry also had a hard childhood, from Occlumency Lessons. And Snape knows that Harry can overthrow the Imperious Curse, because he mentions that to him. Snape also knows that Harry has a wicked Shield Charm that can throw the Legillimens Spell right back on someone - because that happened to him. And finally, Snape does know about Harry's Patronus, since he would have heard the instructors from the Owl exam talking about it. Harry used his Patronus at a Quidditch Match in PoA in front of the whole school.

Snape is not a fool. He is not stupid. He knows a lot about Harry, and his powers. And yes, he despises Harry and would like to honestly say that the boy is completely talentless, he knows differently. He acknowledges the truth - he has mastered his emotions, unlike Harry, and can certainly control them long enough to clearly consider his student's powers.

This editorial presents an interesting concept or two, but does not take the reader anywhere with that concept, or present any real theory, but rather a small possibility.

[iamsirius]

Originally Posted by The Obsesser

.

Snape is not a fool. He is not stupid. He knows a lot about Harry, and his powers. And yes, he despises Harry and would like to honestly say that the boy is completely talentless, he knows differently. He acknowledges the truth - he has mastered his emotions, unlike Harry, and can certainly control them long enough to clearly consider his student's powers.

I think it's interesting that Snape says to Harry that Harry should not wear his heart on his sleeve (during Occlumancy lessons). Yet Snape has definitely not mastered his own emotions. For example, when Sirius escapes, spittle is flying from his mouth as he rants and raves that Harry was involved. Snape almost duels with Sirius at Grimmauld Place. He comes unglued when Harry calls him a coward at the end of HBP. I don't call this a person in command of his emotions.

I think the author has a great point about Harry's ordinary spells having tremendous power when others are in danger and not only those whom Harry loves. It seems that Harry will protect anyone who is wrongly threatened. He sure protected one of his least favorite people when he cast the patronus against the dementors to save Dudley.

It seems like all editorials come down to questioning Snape's allegience, but I applaud those who have discussed the editorial without getting stuck on that point!

[aggiefan1206]

I think this is a brilliant theory with many fine points. Very interesting editorial one of the best i have read in a while

[Hermeneutic]

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

I started reading your essay expecting something about the power of Love, and instead you first talk about Snape taking over the leadership of the Death Eaters???

Yeah, this was jarring for me as well. Considering the lack of solid, non-circumstantial evidence for any of the three sides of the Snape debate have, throwing in a long section assuming and asserting out-of-hand things which can't be proven (intentionally bad Occlumency lessons, intentional delay--or any delay at all--of help for the DoM battle) was unnecessary and out of place. Cutting it would have gone an awful long way towards remaining on topic and presenting a more coherent read.

Having said that, power boosts from emotional outbursts o' love...I like it. I like it a lot. If nothing else it suggests that the limits on someone's regular abilities and powers can be transcended by the advent of love, and that's a concept I can rally behind.

[colorguard12]

I love reading the editorials on mugglenet because they're so insightful, but this one topped them all. I joined COSforums just so that I could tell Phil how impressed I was with this editorial. Phil, you brought up so many good points in your editorial. I agree with your opinions wholeheartedly! It makes so much sense that Harry's "inexplicable bursts of power" comes from wanting to protect those he loves. Kudos!

[Phil_Stone]

An interesting editorial concept, and most of the examples of Harry's spells being super-charged are good ones. But I have to agree with the criticisms of Wimsey and Silver. And add a few of my own.

1) All the Weasleys save Percy feel indebted to Harry? Check out Percy's reaction to the Lake test in GoF. Percy cares agreat deal about his family, even if he cannot show it properly, and I thoink that means he is gratefull to Harry as well. I expect Book 7 will show us why Percy is Gryffindor, and I would not be surprised to learn he was Dumbledore's man all along.

2) Harry cannot take over the Order. FIrst because he will not tell them about the Horocruxes, since there may be a spy, and Dumbledore told him not to tell anyone. Secondly, and more importantly, HArry has not the skills or experiance to run such an operation. The Order will help him when he needs them, but they wont be following his orders. Look for Arthur to take the lead to presage his future success in the Ministry.

3) An attack on the Wedding? Certainly everyone has considered it. If Lucius Malfoy was free he could not resist. For Voldemort (or Snape) it seems too small an event to bother with, and too personal. (Does he play Bar Mitzvas too?) Would the Order be off-guard, or on high alert? It seems as likely that Voldemort would take the opportunity to attack somewhere else while the Order is occupied. Somewhere he could devestate unopposed. It would make better headlines.

4) The power of love is just to amplify other spells? I dont think so. I think that Harry himself may not completely understand this untill after he has vamquished Voldemort, but I think it will involve Harry doing something Voldemort would not expect, rather than Harry simply doing what Voldemort expected, only better.

[silver ink pot]

Great post, Phil Stone! I like your ideas about Percy (I hope he's a spy in the Ministry, too, but I'm not sure) and Arthur leading the Order - he is, after all, named for a king.

Whenever I think of an attack on a wedding, I think of the musical "Fiddler on the Roof" ~ a movie I'm sure JKR has seen many times. Maybe she will go that way, but I'm not so sure.

It's interesting about Harry's love enhancing his spells. On other threads on CoS, people have criticized Dumbledore for not teaching Harry more about self-defense and powerful magic to defeat Voldemort - darker things. But Dumbledore's emphasis has always been that Harry already has what he needs inside himself, and he just needs to be ready to do whatever he can do.

The whole passage about "going into the arena with his head held high" has less to do with murder or power, and alot to do with Harry facing death with dignity, and just doing his best to out-think Voldemort.

[shootingstar_50]

Nice Editorial and Good points. However I disagree with two points:

- I do not think the "book will write itself" as you suggest and I think we will be surprised once more.

- I think Snape position will remain ambiguous until the end. Your theory is that he is on LV side, but I am not sure of this. What he said to Bellatrix about Harry may have been based on pure hatred and despise but I think that he lied about several things.

[bumbledore59]

Hi
I very much enjoyed your editorial and think the idea of Harry having a "love amplifier" for his spells in time of crisis to those he loves is a good one. Harry certain needs some help to cope not only with Voldemort but powerful Death Eaters like Bellatrix who in theory could take him with a teaspoon. As to a battle royal at the wedding and some of your other speculation I'm not so sure. It might come too early in the book for a defining struggle between the two sides. I'm sure if it were to happen, Voldemort would want to be leading his troops which, in the absence of Dumbledore would make it very one sided. With Snape's attitude to Harry I think you are on safer ground. Now I belong to the “Snape’s for Snape” camp. I think Snape has been playing a long game since he first heard the prophecy. By the way are we sure he didn’t hear the whole prophecy? I think Snape believes that Harry is indeed destined to vanquish Voldemort, but thinks, with his contempt for Harry’s magical skills and own boundless ambition, that once Harry has disposed of Voldemort it will be simple for him to kill Harry in turn and declare himself the new Dark Lord to the adulation of all the Death Eaters who will see him as the new “Invincible One” and killer of the “Chosen One”. With this as his motive it is easily possible that Snape will actually aid Harry to get the horcruxes either directly or more likely indirectly through a naive intermediary such as a desperate to redeem himself Draco.
I see the final scenes in true Holywood style. Harry with great effort has disposed of Vodemort in some way we can't yet predict and lies exhausted. Just as he thinks he is safe Snape unfolds his plan and prepares to kill a helpless Harry. And what stops him? Why Snape’s nemesis Wormtail of course. He owes Harry a life debt. What better time to repay it than now, even if it’s at the cost of his own life? And of course he hates Snape too who has shown him nothing except the greatest contempt. Think Wormtongue and Saruman and you’ve got it about right.
Finally a couple of questions that I’ve been pondering which are touched on in your editorial. So far Harry has always confronted Voldemort alone. In the last face off will Harry have people with him? Will Ron and Hermione finally get to see Voldemort . Will there be a big magical battle scene as in LOTR or Narnia or just a lonely one on one cliff-edge confrontation? Will Voldemort’s final mistake be to try to possess Harry again in his last desperation and to die of love, the final expression of the “gleam of triumph” in Dumbledore’s eye? And what about Ron Weasley. Apart from loyalty, some laughs, some good/bad goalkeeping, and latterly a lot of romantic tension with Hermione, what has he really contributed to Harry’s quest since the epic chess match in the Philosopher’s Stone? Not a lot I would submit. Surely he has to do something exceptional in Book 7?

[Shewoman]

You did good work with your examples of Harry's power being greater when he is defending someone. That's really helpful.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that Snape is going to be a great favorite of Voldemort's now. He killed Voldemort's greatest enemy, a man that Voldemort never even touched. I think that's going to make Voldemort wary, at least, of Snape; he'll see him as a potential rival for the hearts and minds of the other DEs: Hail, the killer of Dumbledore! If, as was postulated in Spinners End, the point of having Draco assigned the task of killing Dumbledore was to give Voldemort a reason to kill him and punish his family, that's going to put Snape and Voldemort directly at odds with each other.

I also think Snape would be a terrible leader--of DEs, of the Order, of the Lollipop Guild. He can't control himself, much less others.

I didn't think Spinners End showed Snape at his most truthful (whatever THAT might look like). He said he and other DEs thought Harry might be a stronger Dark Lord, but there's no trace of that in Stone. His information led to Sirius' death only extremely tangentially--he gave SIRIUS (not Voldemort) the information that led to Sirius' being at the MoM. Kreacher is the one who passed on word that Sirius and Harry would do anything for each other. And, although PI was significant in Harry's survival in Goblet, he was dodging spells and keeping calm and maintaining the wand link with Voldemort after having seen another student murdered and being totally unexpectedly confronted with both Voldemort and the DEs AND his dead parents and still managed to escape with Cedric's body. I find that impressive. I think Snape would too.

Attack on the wedding--maybe, but Voldemort knows when Harry was born and would, I think, be more likely to attack him when the Lily/Dumbledore protection about Privet Drive has worn off. But it would be a big cumbustulous scene involving lots of characters; Jo may not be able to resist.

[Robingirl]

That was a really good editorial!!! I never noticed that the connection with Harry's spells and love.

[theseer2]

I truely enjoyed this editorial. I really believe you captured the Idea of love as a moving force. The groups you mentioned will not just follow him because. The wizarding world has been devided on voldemort since he came into being. Voldy's power is to cause suspicion and fear. Harry's will be to bring about unity and trust through love. It is part of the POWER of love.

Your predictions are as good as anyone elses and well supported. You could very well be right. I love that you have Snape taking a power position with Voldemort. I really feel he has patienly waited for his opportunities to arrive rather than activly persue them. He is a very methodical man. Nice work.

[inkling7]

As someone said on another part of COS Harry has the power to inspire love and this could play an important part in vanquishing Voldemort. Harry's love certainly made him more powerful when using certain spells but as he certainly doesn't love Dudley he must have some other power that isn't love inspired to be able to repulse the Dementors. My guess is that self-preservation has also played a part in his use of powers - remember he was able to jump onto a roof (without understanding how he did it) in The Philosophers Stone book when he was trying to get away from Dudley and his gang at school.

On the whole a well thought out and enjoyable editorial even if I didn't agree with parts of it.

[Phil_Stone]

Silver, Thanks, now I shall have to watch "Fiddler". I hope I am correct on Percy, but then I have been looking for him to come through for several books now. The thing is, as is he serves as a parallel to my view of Snape. That is to say, if a person, such as Snape, might have an epiphany of sorts (due to the kindness of Lily?) and move from whatever caused him to be sorted into Slytherin, to a more noble path, might not a Gryfindor lose his way as well?

In this I keep being reminded of Book VII of the Republic, where Plato charts the decline of the state and soul of the man with reference to a mother' comments about how unfairly the father has been treated, and that he takes it too well. Could Percy have been corrupted by the unfairness of the Ministry to his father? Could he have come to view his fairness and respect for Muggles to be a weakness?

To continue Shewoman's defense of Snape v Sirius, I've always thought that Snape's behaviour there actually is the best proof he was on the side of Good. While he passed the message to Sirius, and it might be argued how timely it was (as was JKR's intention, I am sure) what everyone seems to miss is that he does not seem to do anything to hurry Harry along to the Ministry.

It has been argued that Snape dropped the lessons to help Voldemort get Harry to go to the Prophecy. But when Lucius seems to be lying in wait for him, Snape leaves Harry in Umbridge's clutches. If he didn't want Harry following Voldemort's lead, that is exactly what he would do. That is, let Umbridge detain him, and keep his own hands clean. If he really wanted Harry to get to the Ministry, he certainly would not have trusted Harry would be rescued by Hagrid's brother. With all the other pranks going on, it would not be hard for Snape to do something extremely nasty without becoming the obvious suspect.Is there anything in their escape which suggests they had magical assistance?

[GinnysHex]

Wow, a really great editorial based entirely in cannon. I have to agree with you that Snape has severely underestimated Harry' s talent as a wizard. It has always annoyed me that though he is a a very interesting character he has never attempted to see Harry as what he actually is. He always sees James and though James himself was a very talented wizard it doesn't seem that Snape saw him as such. Snape, like Voldemort doesn't see the power of having friends as support.

[stephanie74]

A fantastic editorial, entirely based on canon and not on wild fantasies ... I agree wholeheartedly with you with your analyis of Harry's power of Love.

I think too that, regardless of the real position of Snape in the chequer, Snape underestimates Harry's power grandly - and so will Voldemort.

Remember when Harry and Dumbledore are in the cave? Dumbledore makes clear that Voldemort wouldn't think that Harry could be a powerful wizard because he's not qualified and underage ... so it is clear that Voldemort, Snape and the Death Eaters will all underestimate Harry at the beginning of book seven.

But I think the most interesting fact is that Harry himself underestimates himself. He doesn't recognize himself as a "powerful" wizard yet - and his reactions at Dumbledore telling him that he has indeed a special power show that Harry doesn't believe that. I'm sure the whole Horcrux hunting will have the Trio working together - so Harry won't still have proof of his powers at that point.

So ... what I think is that Harry will have to believe that his own kind of power - the Power of Love - will be able to "vanquish the Dark Lord", but just at the end ...when he'll be alone facing Voldemort.

Considering your ideas on Harry's powers being stronger when he has to defend someone he loves, I'm surprised you didn't include Ginny in your discussion.

Because it comes as a direct conclusion that Harry's power will reach its peak when he has to defend the person he loves the most - and although Harry has still to admit openly that he loves Ginny at the end of HBP, I'm sure that is clearly implied by their dialogue after Dumbledore's funeral.

So ... I imagine a scenario where Ginny could be in some danger at the end of book seven - hald captive, or something similar - perhaps Voldemort will be leering at the fact that Ginny is so similar to Harry's mother - and Harry's power will be unleashed.

[PhilHair]

Hello,

I am the writer of "Harry Potter's Power", and I have enjoyed the lively discussion that has taken place concerning it. There have been several well-argued posts that have questioned some of my conclusions, and I respect them.

One recurrent criticism is that my essay did not seem to stay on target. I must admit that this criticism is quite valid. I probably should have started the essay with an introduction which would have gone something like this:

<Quote>

Harry Potter has a very difficult task ahead of him. He must face the most dangerous Dark Wizard of the time, one who is now quite willing and able to kill him. Moreover he is at present unkillable, since he still has multiple hidden horcruxes to restore him even if Harry could destroy his body. Additionally, he is protected by his Death Eaters, who will kill and die for him. It is valid to ask how he could hope to accomplish his goal of killing Voldemort given these obstacles, especially since Dumbledore is dead. This essay will examine the situation into which JKR has put Harry, his power, and his assets and liabilities as he seeks his goal. Based on my analysis, I think I can make certain predictions about events leading up to his 17th birthday, and a few other general predictions on how he could take down Voldemort.

<End Quote>

My personal opinion is that Snape is his own man. Nonetheless, much of my essay was Snape-agnostic. I believe that his statement to Bellatrix and Narcissa at the beginning of HBP about Harry was his real opinion, but I acknowledge that he could have easily lied to them about other things. I must also agree that he did go to a lot of effort to justify himself before them. This would have to be so that he would be accepted by the DE's, not just Voldemort. Clearly his unbreakable vow was "putting his money where is mouth is" and quite brave, since potentially it could put him in direct conflict with Voldemort himself (for interfering in Draco's task) or kill him if he failed to keep it.

Others have argued that it does not make sense that Snape would have missed Harry's power, since he was a very good spy, whoever he was loyal to. This is a good point, and I went into great detail in the essay why I think he had such a blind spot. It is possible that he changed his opinion during HBP, but based on what he said during his battle with Harry, I don't think so.

Finally, I will have to admit that based on what has been published so far, JKR could convincing make any of the three "Snape is ..." arguments work in Book 7. Assuming that the last book is published as predicted in July 2007, we'll all know by this time next year, but it's fun to try to get into her head.

Again thank you for your posts.

--Phil Hair

[Quidagis]

Originally Posted by stephanie74

A fantastic editorial, entirely based on canon and not on wild fantasies ... I agree wholeheartedly with you with your analyis of Harry's power of Love.

I think too that, regardless of the real position of Snape in the chequer, Snape underestimates Harry's power grandly - and so will Voldemort.

Remember when Harry and Dumbledore are in the cave? Dumbledore makes clear that Voldemort wouldn't think that Harry could be a powerful wizard because he's not qualified and underage ... so it is clear that Voldemort, Snape and the Death Eaters will all underestimate Harry at the beginning of book seven.

But I think the most interesting fact is that Harry himself underestimates himself. He doesn't recognize himself as a "powerful" wizard yet - and his reactions at Dumbledore telling him that he has indeed a special power show that Harry doesn't believe that. I'm sure the whole Horcrux hunting will have the Trio working together - so Harry won't still have proof of his powers at that point.

So ... what I think is that Harry will have to believe that his own kind of power - the Power of Love - will be able to "vanquish the Dark Lord", but just at the end ...when he'll be alone facing Voldemort.

Considering your ideas on Harry's powers being stronger when he has to defend someone he loves, I'm surprised you didn't include Ginny in your discussion.

Because it comes as a direct conclusion that Harry's power will reach its peak when he has to defend the person he loves the most - and although Harry has still to admit openly that he loves Ginny at the end of HBP, I'm sure that is clearly implied by their dialogue after Dumbledore's funeral.

So ... I imagine a scenario where Ginny could be in some danger at the end of book seven - hald captive, or something similar - perhaps Voldemort will be leering at the fact that Ginny is so similar to Harry's mother - and Harry's power will be unleashed.

That's a really good scenario. I can't see Harry analyzing his power and coming to the conclusion that he has 'the Power of Love'. It's not something that is used as a tool in HP at all. It always happens without conscious application. The biggest instance so far was Lily's sacrifice; she had no way of knowing what it would do, yet the effects were immense.

I really liked the interpretation of love fuelling Harry's magic that the editorial presented. It might not be the only effect we'll see, but it is clearly there. The Impediment Jinxes at the end of HBP are a big clue imo. It's not just a power boost we see there, the jinx does something completely different, as if the magic knew what effects Harry really wanted to achieve. The Impediment Jinx was introduced in GoF already (chapter "The Dream"), and it is clearly said that it should slow down an attacker. It shouldn't have knocked out anybody.

Originally Posted by iamsirius

It seems like all editorials come down to questioning Snape's allegience, but I applaud those who have discussed the editorial without getting stuck on that point!

I agree with you. That particular topic is getting old. The editorial raised far more interesting questions, even in the Snape part. (Though I belong to the camp that simply doesn't want to read about him any more). The statements he actually made on-page do support the interpretation that he - like Voldemort - underestimates Harry. Imho, because he - like Voldemort - secretly despises the power of love and therefore despises Harry as a wizard. I think he's a typical Death Eater in that respect. His emphasis on Occlumency is telling, for example. Jo subtly hinted that it is actually one of Harry's strengths that he won't be able to do it, because he is too much in touch with his own emotions. And Dumbledore never insisted he take it up again. Yet Snape feels it is vital.

[SusanBones]

I really liked your editorlal, Phil. I agree with most of it, too. I like what you said about Snape not recognizing Harry's strengths. You can see each of the following weaknesses:
Voldemort doesn't understand the power of love
Dumbledore has to believe the best of people
Snape underestimates Harry's abilities

Snape judges Harry with what I would call the Snape filter. He prejudges Harry before he even gets to know him. He knows that Harry cannot fight Voldemort according to Snape's definitions, as two warriors would. He doesn't value Harry's true strength, his ability to love.

I hadn't thought about Snape actually leading the Death Eaters before. I have thought he might be hiding, or be humble. But his safest spot might be as a leader. I like this theory.

[Ticci]

“Of course, it became apparent to me very quickly that he had no extraordinary talent at all. He has fought his way out of a number of tight corners by a simple combination of sheer luck and more talented friends."
"There is excellent evidence that he was giving his honest opinion of Harry at that point..."

I think Snape was misleading Bellatrix when he made this comment. We know that Harry is the most talented and it's proven throughout the series so when Snape said that I believe he was intentionally misleading Bellatrix. Hermoine is the most clever but when it comes to real confrontations it's Harry's talent that gets them through.