Spinner's End #22 - Coeur de Lyon

[navygreen]

Discussion for Spinner's End #22 - Coeur de Lyon by Lady Lupin.

[KathyH]

Another brilliant editorial by Lady Lupin. The idea that Gryffindors heir would be someone with his courage, not his blood is something i had never thought of, but it makes so much sense.

[kerri]

very inspirational. i love the way you explain in detail and simplicity the origin of names and their meanings.

i never thought about the heir of gryffindor as you so eloquantly explained. It is very possible that, by jk's pause, the bloodline isnt nesassary to become the heir of gryffindor. thankyou for bringing that to my attention.

goodluck with your book, and fundraising lady lupin.

[Rhiannon33]

As usual, an excellent editorial from Lady Lupin, just a quick point though (and not a bad one!)
Hagrid flew over Bristol when taking Harry to the Dursleys' house but Wales is not the only place he could have come from. I always got the impression that Godric's Hollow was in Devon as there are two big moors there. It also has the advantage of being an area that JKR knows fairly well from her time spent at University in Exeter. She has already based Ottery St Catchpole around a town in Devon so it would not be unreasonable to assume this.
Anyway, no doubt all will be revealed in book 7.

[inkling7]

Good editorial and you are right - an heir need not necessarily mean a descendant so Harry could be an heir as he has inherited Gryffindor's traits without necessarily being a descendant of Gryffindor.
Perhaps Gryffindor's sword played a part in Dumbleore's defeat of Grindlewald.
No doubt about it - all will be revealed in book 7 (hopefully).

[sanojbrothers]

Yes,
I agree to all these things. But what is the whole point. We already know all this .

Yes, Harry is today's " Gryffindor" - so what? It is obvious. He has to defeat - " Slytherin"

[RachelMe]

Actually, I think the "point" was to remind us of the facts, and maybe teach a little, more than to speculate. Not every editorial has to be about a Theory.

I especially loved the history lesson on St. Godric -- I didn't even know there was a St. Godric. (My 8th grade religion teacher better not be reading this!) Like Lady Lupin, I work full time, and I'm raising 3 kids, voluntering, driving kids to sports, and ocassionally, sleeping. I just can't seem to find the time to do the in-depth research that others do, so I find this kind of insight fascinating.

Side note to Lady Lupin -- I applaud you. That's one full plate you have, and you still find the time for this kind of research. WOW! Thanks for your hard work, Lady Lupin. If anyone deserves a house-elf, its you.

[Shewoman]

The only "heir" we've heard of in the series has been the Heir of Slytherin, which is (as LL points out) determined by blood. It seems only appropriate that Gryffindor's Heir be chosen according to a trait that Gryffindor valued, as Slytherin valued blood. This, as LL points out, reinforces JKR's points about our choices rather than the circumstances we do not control determining who we are.

sanojbrothers, if you already knew everything in this editorial, I applaud you and your teachers!

[Opaxia]

Just like to make a small note...
The part about St Godric keeping snakes as 'pets' was probably not referring to actual snakes. Think about St Patrick, who was renowned for driving snakes out of Ireland... He didn't really go about beating slithering reptiles with a stick; he drove out paganism. So when history refers to Godric taming snakes and keeping them as pets... there is a fairly decent chance it is actually refering to converting people to a different belief system.

[geonub]

Lady Lupin,

Beautifully done again! Always struck by the clarity of your editorials.

Just a point of clarification to sanjobrothers; Harry has to defeat Voldy, not Slytherin; Voldy has chosen Harry as the one who will break his power, not Slytherin house. If we harken back to the sorting hat:
"... And never since the founders four
Were whittled down to three
Have the Houses been united
As they once were meant to be

...Oh, know the perils, read the signs,
The warning history shows,
For our Hogwarts is in danger
From external, deadly foes
And we must unite inside her
Or we'll crumble from within..." (thanks to mugglenet encyclopedia for easy reference)

The task that is set before all the wizarding world is the reconcilation of all four houses - all aspects of all wizards. Harry has another task altogether; but the latter cannot happen withour the former.

[Krinkelmort]

Great Editorial!

Rowling said that there was more to the Sorting Hat than meets the eye. Could Godric Gryffindor have put a spell on it, so it could choose it's heir? And when it chose Gryffindor's Heir - give that person the sword?

Anyway, I agree with all of your statements...

If the heir is not chosen by bloodline, than who was the previous heir? My best bet is Dumbledore - reason is quite obvious. Or else it could be Lily - we are to find out a major discovery about Lilly Potter in Book 7. And Rowling said that James was pretty brave, but that Lily's bravery was far greater. Could it be because she was the Heir of Gryffindor?

[lafemmenissa]

Thank you Lady Lupin for another wonderful, well researched editorial. Like others have posted before me, you make a very good point that an heir does not have to be blood related and can be chosen (something that made me go, "well, duh. why didn't I remember that!?"). I also don't think that it will play much of a part in 7, but it's nice to have a reminder of the traits that Harry embodies as we all speculate what lies ahead of him. Encore, merci beaucoup!

all the best,
la femme

[Hedwig_June]

Oh, very good! Gotta love the in-depth research, every time!

Good Luck with the Shakespeare fundraising!!

[Emerald63]

As usual, a thought provoking piece, Lady Lupin. But there was one idea that kept niggling at the back of my mind while I read the editorial, though the ed itself never addressed it. It's the combination of a lion and an eagle that makes up a griffin. I've always wondered why the Gryffindor mascot isn't the most obvious thing, a griffin. I'm starting to wonder, though, if that might be the case because we needed to see both the lion and the eagle as seperate mascots even though the name Gryffindor would indicate a griffin. And why would the two need to be kept independently prominant? (Besides their individual symbolism.) Because a united lion and eagle, that is a griffin, would need to be reserved for a common coat of arms if Godric Gryffindor and Rowena Ravenclaw were husband and wife, or closely related in some other fashion (cousins or in-laws, perhaps). JKR has said that some teachers are married and that this fact has some importance that couldn't be revealed earlier. But she never said it was current teachers, I don't think. And I do find it quite intriguing that Dumbledore's office doorknocker was... a griffin. Sure, he was a Gryffindor, but that doesn't mean that doorknocker might not have had some other significance as well. Likely? Who knows. I'm just sayin'.....

Godric Gryffindor's own brand of Courage seems to be emulated by Neville, of all people, in PS/SS. Gryffindor stood up to his friend when he believed that Slytherin was making the wrong decision. Neville does the same thing with Harry, Ron and Hermione, and Dumbledore especially cites and rewards him for that effort.

I liked this a lot. It was very sweet and, moreover, true! To link our own nervous Neville with the Great Gryffindor says volumes about Neville. I only hope he can see in himself in Book 7 what we've all seen in him since Book 1.

We know that Hagrid had to fly over Bristol to get Harry from Godric's Hollow to Privet Drive, but we don't know if he came straight from Godric's Hollow or made a detour to Wales for some yet-to-be-divulged reason.

I've chimed in on several "where is Godric's Hollow" threads and we always used Bristol as a key reference point. I've half wondered if JKR included the Bristol mention merely because she once lived near there (as a small child, I believe). Being at issue in the very first book, when she had no idea if even it, let alone six more, would ever be published, I can see that possibility. But still, she was so careful at constructing other clues that wouldn't come into play (might never have come into play if unpublished) for many more books. So I continued to think Godric's Hollow was likely in southern Wales, at the other end of a fly-route that also included Bristol and ended in Surrey, south-southwest of London.

But, ya know, Wales as a special detour for "some yet-to-be-divulged reason" never really occured to me. This is a really exciting possibility! I don't know a lot about Wales, but I do know it has a long and rich history, featured prominantly in Welsh-Celtic and Arthurian mythology. And... it is the home of one of the two types of stones used in Stone Henge, considered the most magical site in Great Britain. As to other reasons it might have been a detour for Hagrid and Baby Harry... I'd personally be interested to hear anyone's guesses.


EDIT: Just finished the other posts and wanted to add these...

Originally Posted by inkling7

Good editorial and you are right - an heir need not necessarily mean a descendant so Harry could be an heir as he has inherited Gryffindor's traits without necessarily being a descendant of Gryffindor.

Geeze Louise! I just realized we already have a canon instance of just such a thing - Harry is Sirius's heir even though they have no blood relation! So there's another great reason why Harry could be called the "Heir of Gryffindor."

Originally Posted by Krinkelmort

Rowling said that there was more to the Sorting Hat than meets the eye. Could Godric Gryffindor have put a spell on it, so it could choose it's heir? And when it chose Gryffindor's Heir - give that person the sword?

Now this is a cool idea. And it makes the Hat's thoughts on putting Harry into Slytherin even more interesting and somewhat ironic as well. It would mean that the Hat, as Gryffindor's agent, when choosing his heirs would still be able to recognize in its creator some of the same qualities that were also Slytherin's. The Hat saw such things in Harry, but still placed him in Gryffindor. And there again we have the importance of Harry's choices because he actively chose not to be a Slytherin. Perhaps it was this very choice that had the Hat realizing Harry could be Gryffindor's next heir. Yes, I know some of what the Hat saw of Slytherin in Harry may be due to Harry's having had some bit of Voldemort transferred to him, but to still accept Harry as a Gryffindor, let alone an heir, really does bespeak Gryffindor's egalitarianism.

[hpgw]

Lady Lupin, that was a fantastic piece that you wrote, I applaud you! Thanks so much for taking the time to do the research that you do to keep our brains ticking.
Good luck with all of your projects and feel better soon!

Another excellent editorial, Lady Lupin. Like many other reviewers I had never considered Griffindor's heir to be anything other than a blood relation and, although I don't think it will come into book 7, I now realise that this could be a possibilty for the last book in the series.

As an aside I know how difficult fundraising can be. I am a member of a sports club committee and we spend more time on fundraising than any other single activity. Good luck with this project.

[GryffSolider]

A beautiful editorial Lady Lupin, wonderful and indepth!

Will definately be looking into the orgin of the other Founders names for clues!

A name can say alot, that something we have learned from JKR.

[vithu_dobbyfan]

Wonderful editorial!!!

[Lady_Sirius]

Lady Lupin, you amaze me every time! Just when I think there's nothing else we could possibly discuss or discover, a 'Spinner's End' appears to prove me wrong. To think you have such a busy life and STILL manage to pull out the time for research and editorial-writing astounds and amazes me and so i humbly say... thank you. Congrats on you're new projects and I hope they all go well!

I've got a couple of things to say - first off...

Dumbledore will not be dead, nor will Gryffindor. Because, as Dumbledore said, he will never be gone while those who remain are loyal to him. By embracing the values and legacy of Gryffindor and Dumbledore, Harry keeps them both very much alive, in himself and the world around him. Dumbledore was right in OotP - it was Harry's strong heart that saved him - his Coeur de Lyon. Perhaps, being the true Gryffindor that he is, it will be strong enough to save the world.

*Sob, Sob* Bravo, bravo!

Originally posted by lafemmenissa
you make a very good point that an heir does not have to be blood related and can be chosen (something that made me go, "well, duh. why didn't I remember that!?").

My thoughts exactly! It's one of those things you don't really think about, but that fits so well.

As for 'Today's Gryffindors', the images and ideas talked about in this paragraph are very reminiscent of a game i've recently played - 'Kingdom Hearts 2' - mostly because the main theme of this game is 'the strength of your heart'. Dare I say, it's the main plot of the whole story. (I apologize to all of you who have no idea what i'm on about - i'll finish up quick!) The main protagonist of the story, Sora, has that inner strength and strong will to continue through the perils and hardships and his intentions remain amazingly pure all the way.. and this is just how I see Harry - with maybe more angst and growing up done... This charactor has a weapon called a Keyblade, which when I was reading about the Gryffindor sword, bought to mind how, when Sora calls for the Keyblade, it appears in his hand.. but the Keyblade itself has a will of sorts and will only appear if the caller is strong/pure of heart... So this idea of the Gryffindor sword coming when called - I can see it happening!

As for the sorting hat and how it sorts the students, i had a thought. What if, unbeknownst to them, each student makes an unconscious choice about what is important to them - and though the hat looks at all the possibilities, ultimately, it chooses the house most common to that students wish - in hermione's case, her love of learning is obvious, but she herself stated that she thought friendship and bravery were a lot more important. Hence, she was placed in Gryffindor.

This is awesome, keeps those grey cells working everyone!

LS

[lafemmenissa]

Originally Posted by Lady_Sirius

As for the sorting hat and how it sorts the students, i had a thought. What if, unbeknownst to them, each student makes an unconscious choice about what is important to them - and though the hat looks at all the possibilities, ultimately, it chooses the house most common to that students wish - in hermione's case, her love of learning is obvious, but she herself stated that she thought friendship and bravery were a lot more important. Hence, she was placed in Gryffindor.

This is awesome, keeps those grey cells working everyone!

LS

Actually, that's how I've always imagined the hat working. We know that Harry's decision that he didn't want to be in Slytherin really underlined the choices not abilities or blood theme that is prominent in the story. If this is the case, then one's house really does speak volumes about who someone is underneath the facades they put out. Did I just state the obvious? I need a day off!

all the best,
la femme