The Four Elements (or five?) and Harry Potter

[Inkwolf]

Suggested by Kingwidget

JKR has said that the four houses represent the four elements.

What mythic/historic/literary significance does this have for the houses? How do the elements factor into house identities and destinies? What elemental forces have we already seen? (For example, as an inhabitant of the castle plumbing, can Moaning Myrtle be assumed to be a Slytherin? Has everyone we've seen in the Floo flames been a Gryffindor?)

And is Harry's power of love "the fifth element" as portayed in other works of modern culture?

Originally Posted by kingwidgit

• The 5th Element
  • Every five millennia, when three planets are in eclipse, evil is embodied and attempts to turn light to dark, life to death. The weapon against this evil is in a temple in Egypt. To succeed in its goal, the evil has to consume the location of the weapon. The weapon is activated by bringing together the five elements of the universe: the first four are water, fire, earth and air, which are embodied in the form of small triangular-prism stones, and the fifth element is a "Supreme Being", resembling a human except genetically superior, encased in a sarcophagus in the shape of a person with head back and mouth widely open. Another interpretation is that the fifth element is love, which is used by the Supreme Being (or Protector of Life) to activate the weapon. These five elements together produce the Divine Light, which vanquishes the Ultimate Evil for another five thousand years.

• Captain Planet
  • Captain Planet is formed by combining the powers of the rings of the five Planeteers, which represented the four Classical elements: Earth (wielded by Kwame), Fire (Wheeler), Wind (Linka), Water (Gi) - and the additional power of Heart (Ma-ti).

• Raiders of the Lost Ark
  • I'd also been entertaining the idea of Raiders of the Lost Ark---with a quantum leap from The 5th Element's 'divine light'---the power within the Ark of the Covenants was the Shekinah glory. In the movie, the glowing spirits first emerging from the Ark really remind me of Priori Incantatem. Then there is the comparitive destruction of people from exposure to the Shekinah glory aka the 'flash of Elohim' {biblically, just gazing upon the ark itself could kill you, so it was covered from sight by: a veil, badgers skins, a blue cloth} and Harry's power to 'burn' Quirrellmort and his resulting death {assuming it was from the contact} has always intrigued me, especially in the movie when he'd turned to ash.

It's really interesting to note how many times Harry's scar 'burns & pains' him throughout the books, how many times Harry feels like there's a fire inside of him. And then to realize that Luna Lovegood told us about Heliopaths {Spirits of Fire, great tall flaming creatures that gallop across the ground burning everything in front of them}, and using HP as a Christian allegory, just really made me think.

[FeverFudge]

I've actually thought a lot about this as well. And it always gets me thinking about the houses uniting. I don't know if they ever will, but the houses uniting is sort of like captain planet - but then you're missing the love element. So i'm thinking Harry repersents the fifth element.

And I just don't see what the connection is. But I've always liked the idea that Harry would become Headmaster of Hogwarts after his battle with Voldemort of course. (If he even survives.

[storyteller]

I think you should put a link to the other thread here. That way if anyone is interested they can get some background information.

[Sarapsys]

Originally Posted by FeverFudge

I've actually thought a lot about this as well. And it always gets me thinking about the houses uniting. I don't know if they ever will, but the houses uniting is sort of like captain planet - but then you're missing the love element. So i'm thinking Harry repersents the fifth element.

If you see the four houses/elements as four separate entities that are strongest when united, could the fifth element/love be the binding agent--the thing that brings them together? That would make sense to me, bc love and understanding are generally necessary to strong cooperation.

I don't really think that this elemental theme is related to superficial things like Flooing or Myrtle in the plumbing....I think it's rather deeper than that, and may not always show in such an explicit manner.

Something I kind of wonder is if these connections are something that developed in the history of Hogwarts, or if the Founders themselves had an affinity for their respective elements. Something that kind of made me think of this was wands, and how they seem to have different 'temperaments', and that certain wizards are more suited to certain wands. Could this have anything to do with a sort of elemental affinity? For instance, in SS/PS Hermione seems to have a special affinity for that blue fire spell, etc.

[philospherfan]

If you see the four houses/elements as four separate entities that are strongest when united, could the fifth element/love be the binding agent--the thing that brings them together? That would make sense to me, bc love and understanding are generally necessary to strong cooperation.

In OotP, Dumbledore's Army was a strong force with Harry as the binding-agent, but no Slytherins where a part of it. If one slytherin had joined would there have been A) the acceptance of that slytherin by Harry or the others, esp. Harry and B) some physical sign of that reunion of the four houses? Would the crest instead of being four separate symbols for each house be one symbol representing the school? Was the crest orginally united but when the founders broke apart did the crest as well?

[capella_black]

The houses correspond to the four elements, but also to character traits and values that seem to fit with each element.

Gryffindor is the bravery, the fire, the lion,
Ravenclaw is the intelligence, the air, the eagle,
Hufflepuff is the hard work, the earth, the badger, and
Slytherin is the cunning, the water, the serpent.

Gryffindor and Ravenclaw have lofty tower dormitories, Hufflepuff and Slytherin have underground dwellings.

But if none of the incoming students know what house they'll be in until they put on the Sorting Hat, doesn't that mean that all wizards are cunning, hard working, intelligent, and brave? I doubt the same could be said for Muggles. And if Harry can love after all he's been through, the rest of them really don't have any excuse at all. Maybe the combination of those five things is the essence of magic.

[FeverFudge]

Originally Posted by capella_black

Maybe the combination of those five things is the essence of magic.

Wow!!! I never thought about it like that. That makes perfect sense to me.

Sarapsys - I guess I was thinking too literally. That is also a very good idea. But wonder what exactly would make everyone come together. Sure, you know it'll happen because everybody would open there minds and do what is right. But what event? - I guess I'm saying is that there must be some sort of event that'll lead to the house's coming together.

Also - In the little I know of alchemy, theres something about the elements coming together to make the Philosopher's stone. I like this because that gives you the elixr of life. So if the houses come together - will Hogworts live forever?

[capella_black]

Originally Posted by FeverFudge

Wow!!! I never thought about it like that. That makes perfect sense to me.

Thanks, but I have to edit that theory and say it's probably only the four things that make up the essense of magic, or Voldemort would be a Muggle. But maybe the Dark Arts are any magic without the love component? At least that would explain why they are eternal and ever changing.

Love seems like such a silly word to use though. It reminds me of those lurid pink flowers Lockhart decorated the Great Hall with for Valentine's Day. I mean it more like compassion, an understanding that everyone else thinks and feels exactly the same way you do, and a struggle not to intentionally do anything to them you wouldn't want them to do to you. Basic human decency, I suppose. Something Harry's got in spades and Voldemort doesn't have at all.

[FeverFudge]

Originally Posted by capella_black

Thanks, but I have to edit that theory and say it's probably only the four things that make up the essense of magic, or Voldemort would be a Muggle. But maybe the Dark Arts are any magic without the love component? At least that would explain why they are eternal and ever changing.

Love seems like such a silly word to use though. It reminds me of those lurid pink flowers Lockhart decorated the Great Hall with for Valentine's Day. I mean it more like compassion, an understanding that everyone else thinks and feels exactly the same way you do, and a struggle not to intentionally do anything to them you wouldn't want them to do to you. Basic human decency, I suppose. Something Harry's got in spades and Voldemort doesn't have at all.

I guess I wasn't thinking about Voldemort - hmm...Idk, but I do like your idea about the four elements for dark magic.

I see what your point is about love - its too silly. When I first realized that love was the power the dark lord knows not, it was kind of a let down. But it's just a realative term for the good in people, their compassion and ability to sympathize with people around them. Its just that the word love is an all encompasing word for good.

[jammi567]

I think the elements do correspond to the different houses:

Gryffindor = fire = they do have a firery nature and do rash things without thinking, like fire

Slytherin = water = they are very sly and crafty. Plus, they have a cold, detathed feel about them

Ravenclaw = air = they're intellegent, and they bring a gust of brashfulness

Hufflepuff = earth = generosity and giving

[hyogoetophile]

I'm not convinced that we are supposed to be looking for some fifth element. I've seen it called quintessence, aether, love, etc, etc. But depending on where you look, the fifth element is considered separate from the four or is simply the four united.

I mean, I don't think we're going to find some secret Hogwarts house or really any strong sequence of symbolism like there is for the four elements/houses/Tarot suit Horcruxes/etc.

There is the supposed "Love Room" at the DoM, but at the same time, love is really Harry's (who strongly represents Gryffindor) thing. It fuels his bravery and self-sacrifice. And one room is not a lot of symbolism. The other elements have houses, Horcruxes, and main characters that correspond to them.

[Sarapsys]

This is a little OT, but RE the love thing--
Let me suggest an alternate meaning for the word 'love', which was a more common concept in ancient Greece--the idea of love as self-sacrificial devotion as opposed to personal affection. It seems to me that 'the power of love' has more to do with being willing to set aside your personal interests for the greater good, and take the blow so that others won't have to.

[Nessy]

I have read that in witchcraft - the wiccan tradition in particular - the utilization of the four elements -earth, water, wind, and fire is inherent in a lot the rituals. For instance the four elements make up the four quarters of a magic circle. Earth the element of form used in binding and manifestation is symbolised by the colour yellow, and its magical agent (its ritual tool) is the pentagram. Air represents mental activity it's colour is blue and the ritual tool is the wand as it was once a branch moving in the wind...Fire is the living element, it is the ancient symbol of divinity and duality - it's colour is red and its magical agent is the blade (being forged in fire). Water is green and undines symbolise the active magical principle of its nature. It's ritual tool is a chalice. The fifth element known as Akasha, ether, or spirit is the force from which all four elements rise and return to. It is present in all magical rituals.

[FerN]

JKR has said that the four houses represent the four elements

:o I had no idea of that

Gryffindor - fire ///no doubts
Ravenclaw - water ///don't know
Hufflepuff - earth /// think so
SLytherin - air /// don't know
???

[ModernInkling]

I think it's really cool that the four Houses correspond to the four elements, because even before Jo clarified that, I was already thinking of them that way (except I had Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff reversed; I thought Ravenclaw would be earth, and Hufflepuff, air. It makes more sense the other way, though)

As for the fifth element, according to my English teacher, in medieval/Renaissance times, the Fifth Element was thought to be the "pure and innocent human soul." Doesn't that sounds like it could be Harry? After all, Dumbledore does talk about Harry's ability to love, but that comes from his purity of heart, so to speak.

[Caralynne]

I always had it this way:
Gryffindor-fire
Hufflepuff-air
Ravenclaw-water
Slytherin-earth

I liked this connection because it implies that the four houses truly do need each other, as different as they may seem. I.E. water puts out fire which is fueled by air and can be either smothered or fueled by earth. I think you could do this with all of them.

I also heard that the fifth element was "pure human soul," but I always thought of this as Dumbledore. Ability to love could apply to, of course, Harry, but it could also apply to many other characters. Thoughts?

[PHOENIX_ENFLAME]

Originally Posted by Caralynne

I always had it this way:
Gryffindor-fire
Hufflepuff-air
Ravenclaw-water
Slytherin-earth

I liked this connection because it implies that the four houses truly do need each other, as different as they may seem. I.E. water puts out fire which is fueled by air and can be either smothered or fueled by earth. I think you could do this with all of them.

I also heard that the fifth element was "pure human soul," but I always thought of this as Dumbledore. Ability to love could apply to, of course, Harry, but it could also apply to many other characters. Thoughts?

Perhaps if this symbol represents the four elements (which it does)



then this symbol represents the fifth element:
"the pure soul" ie: Harry.
Or rather how to make Harry a "pure soul" by removing the Horcrux (Voldemort's soul) in his head).

[X_Bumblebee_X]

The pure soul coul also be a description of unity between the four, the Sorting Hat.

[HerbProfNeville]

Originally Posted by Caralynne

I always had it this way:
Gryffindor-fire
Hufflepuff-air
Ravenclaw-water
Slytherin-earth

I liked this connection because it implies that the four houses truly do need each other, as different as they may seem. I.E. water puts out fire which is fueled by air and can be either smothered or fueled by earth. I think you could do this with all of them.

I also heard that the fifth element was "pure human soul," but I always thought of this as Dumbledore. Ability to love could apply to, of course, Harry, but it could also apply to many other characters. Thoughts?

Rowling gave the associations as:
Gryffindor - fire
Ravenclaw - air (hence the bird aspect)
Huffelpuff - earth (hence the badger - a burrowing animal)
Slytherin - water (she adds this is why their common room is under the lake)

The 5th element as a pure human soul could very well be Harry. Rowling sets him up as an amalgam of the 3 Grail heroes - Bors, Percival and Galahad. Galahad was noted as having lived without sin and the purity of his soul is what enabled him to complete his quest and ultimately find the grail. Interestingly, the Arthurian Hallows which include the grail synch up with the wiccan tools listed in some of the above posts (with a little tweaking).

Harry as the fifth element - the pure human soul - is dependant then on the unification of the 4 elements - the 4 houses working together, and possibly the 4 species of magical bretheren (wizards, centaurs, house elves and goblins) as well. We may find that they have elemental correspondence as well:
Wizard - fire
House Elf - Earth (due to the similarities with Hufflepuff)
Centaur - wind (as archers we can make the arrow - spear - wand tool connection)
Goblin - water (Slytherin association - plus the shared coin/pentacle association as a potential water sign in this series at least)

Here too, Harry is the 5th element - the poure soul that brings the 4 elements together against the dark forces and vanquishes the Dark Lord.

[LoveWeasleys]

Interesting thread I haven't seen it before. I did a quick skim so forgive me if I repeat something...

Originally Posted by Sarapsys

If you see the four houses/elements as four separate entities that are strongest when united, could the fifth element/love be the binding agent--the thing that brings them together?

I was definately hoping that this is what would happen in the fifth book. I agree that Harry's love or particularly love in general could be a fifth and uniting element. However, I was disappointed with the end battle when none of the Slytherins stayed (). Not one Slytherin student help fight evil. Yet, since Snape's actions were done out of love for Lily it seems brought the Slytherin's into the mix and created a sort of balance of the elements. So, I would say that the fifth element in the series would be a more general love and not specifically Harry's.