ASSUMING Dumbledore Impersonated a Trustworthy Severus Snape in Spinner's End

[Inkwolf]

This thread is not for arguing against the underlying theory.

Please do NOT post to argue against the theory. It is accepted for the purpose of this thread.

This thread exists for discussing the impact on Book 6 and the future ramifications for Book 7, if the theory is indeed correct.

Theory explanation follows:

Originally Posted by Paintball

I have totally and completely accepted DIATSSISE. I have no doubt in my mind that Dumbledore was impersonating Snape during chapter 2 of HBP. I can now view HBP no other way. .

I will try now to give you the history of the DIATSSISE theory including why and how it came into existence, and why I have totally accepted DIATSSISE as the answer to the puzzle left by JKR when she left so many confusing and conflicting facts up in the air at the end of HBP.: The theme of the theory is that Dumbledore was impersonating Snape in Spinner’s end (chapter 2) and therefore took the vow

The Puzzle:

(1) I believe Snape is trustworthy. There are too many inconsistencies in an untrustworthy Snape.
Dumbledore knew Draco was trying to kill him. The conversation that Draco had with Dumbledore on the tower leaves no doubt in my mind that Dumbledore knew that Draco was trying to kill him all year. It is possible I guess that Dumbledore could have gotten this information from someone other then Snape, but this information most likely came from Snape. A Voldemort loyal Snape would never alert Dumbledore to the plan to kill Dumbledore.

Dumbledore knew about the vow. He make it very clear in his office when Harry reported overhearing Snape and Draco’s conversation in the bathroom before Christmas that Dumbledore knew more about the situation then Harry. It makes absolutely no sense for a Voldemort loyal Snape who has taken a vow to kill Dumbledore if Draco should fail to tell his intended victim of the vow to kill him.

The lucky portion allowed Flickwick to warn Snape. I know the potion protected Ginny and Ron from being harmed, but there was no fighting going on outside Snape’s office. Snape would not have known that he was needed on the tower except for Flickwick alerting him of the situation. Hermione who had taken the potion allowed Flickwick to go right past her and Luna and alert Snape. It has to be concluded that it was lucky for Hermione for Snape to have been alerted to his needed presence on the tower.

Dumbledore was adamant in his trust of Snape. If Dumbledore was wrong about this then Draco would be right, and Dumbledore would be just an old fool.

(2) At first glance a Trustworthy Snape’s Avada Kedavra on the tower makes no sense. I must have read 100s of post and theories and I rejected all of them. On some of the theories I agreed with the trustworthy Snape posters and on some of the theories I agreed with the evil Snape posters. The theory that Dumbledore was dying from the hand so a plan was developed between Snape and Dumbledore at first interested me. The Snape is evil posters convinced me this theory was wrong. The big piece of canon that was hard to contradict was Dumbledore’s statement to Harry that the loss of the hand was a small price to pay for the destruction of 1/7 of Voldemort’s soul. They convinced me this theory was wrong, but not that Dumbledore was wrong about Snape. The next theory I considered was the potion in the cave being poison theory. I couldn’t see any possibility or any time for Snape and Dumbledore to formulate a plan after Dumbledore drank the potion. Harry was with Dumbledore this entire time. The way Snape rushed from his office to the tower showed a person following a direct plan of action. He had a mission to complete and he knew what needed to be done. The poisoned potion is just too unrealistic for me. If it was poison then it could have been cured, maybe by just shoving a bezoar in his mouth. “Accio bezoar”, and the problem is solved. So how about the Dumbledore is alive theory? As much as I would like this to be true, I just couldn’t get around the vow or the portrait. How could a trustworthy Snape not kill Dumbledore, but not die from the vow. Maybe there is a loophole in the vow. Too fake. The answer is very simple. Who is dead at the end of HBP. Not Snape, but Dumbledore. Who therefore took the vow. Not Snape, but Dumbledore..
(3) This theory was posted and it lasted into Volume 3 before it was closed. I was given the opportunity to explain this theory in one last post. I am going to miss this thread because finding all the clues which prove to me the accuracy of DIATSSISE has been a lot of fun. The exposure of this answer to new posters will most likely be missed and with it moving off the front page of the History of Magic Thread where it remained for a long time it will soon be forgotten.

The clues:


(1) The first question that has to be answered for this theory to make sense is: Why would Dumbledore be at Spinner’s End impersonating Snape? Dumbledore told Harry that he has been trying for years to obtain information from anyone who has ever been around Voldemort. Wormtail has been around Voldemort since the end of POA. Wormtail would be on the top of this list and we know Wormtail was at Spinner’s End. Canon shows that Harry never told his dream in GOF to Dumbledore. Dumbledore concluded that “Voldemort used Nagani to kill an old Muggleman and it might have then occurred to him to turn her into his final Horcrux..” Most likely this information came from Wormtail. So we know that Dumbledore has suddenly acquired this information and the most likely source is Wormtail. Maybe Snape got this information, from Wormtail instead of Dumbledore? No way, there is more, a lot more.
(2) Snape offered drinks to the sisters. JKR turns the offering of drinks to guest into a big scene just one chapter later. Dumbledore even offered drinks to Voldemort when he visited him asking for a job. To Dumbledore this is good manners. Snape has never offered a drink to a single person in the previous 5 books or any other time in HBP.
(3) Snape is polite to sisters. Snape acted differently then we have ever seen him act. The very first thing that comes to mind when Chapter 2 is read is how polite Snape is acting. Some crazy threads have started because of this difference in Snape’s actions including a Snape loves Narcissa thread. Before the Dev. Of Snape’s Character Thread was closed, the trustworthy Snape believers were having a blast re-developing Snape’s character without the Harry filter as they called it. Harry didn’t make Snape do or say the cruel things he said and did for 5 prior books. No. Snape acted different for one simple reason. It wasn’t Snape in Spinner’s End, it was Dumbledore. There’s more.
(4) Some of the words used by Snape in Spinner’s End are Dumbledore words including “of course”, “fiasco”, and the big one “forgive me”. Here is the post concerning the “fiasco” clue. Here is the post concerning the –forgive me- clue. There is no way Snape would apologize for an insult while he is giving it. Look at all the Snape insults he has thrown out in all 6 books. Never did he include an apology for the insult in the insult. Dumbledore on the other hand included in his insult to Voldemort an apology for the insult in the exact same manner and using the exact same words as well as all the other times he used the exact same words in the exact same way throughout HBP. The inclusion in the insult of an apology for the insult in the exact way Dumbledore had done many times before is considered by me of being an obvious clue and caused me and many others to become convinced the theory was 100% accurate. It is obvious to me that JKR had Dumbledore use the –forgive me- phrase throughout HBP as a direct clue to the one use of –forgive me- in Spinner’s End. As far as I’m concerned this clue is so strong that JKR might have well just posted on her web site that it was Dumbledore in Spinner’s End. I can recognize a direct, obvious clue when I see one.
(5) The theory explains the argument overheard by Hagrid between Dumbledore and Snape. In the forest Snape tells Dumbledore he is taking too much for granted,. and that maybe he (Snape) didn’t want to do it anymore. The trustworthy Snape believers argue that this shows that a plan had been formed for Snape to kill Dumbledore and Snape didn’t want to do so. The evil Snape believers laugh at this argument because looking at this conversation in that light is ridiculous. Snape didn’t want to do what anymore, live. If Snape took the vow, but didn’t kill Dumbledore then he dies. There is no way this conversation can in any way be made to reconcile with a Severus Snape wanting to do the noble thing and die from the vow and Dumbledore ordering Snape to harm his soul and commit murder. No Way. This conversation makes total sense under DIATSSISE because Snape has no reason of self preservation to do anything.. He has total freedom of choice with no ramification of the vow hanging over his head.
Dumbledore has formed a plan. When the time comes they are to talk Draco into letting them fake Draco and his mother’s death. Snape will then fake Dumbledore’s death and go into deep cover. Dumbledore will then die from the vow. Snape was tied of being a spy and didn’t want to leave the safety and comforts of Hogwarts for the dangerous job of deep cover spy. Dumbledore took too much for granted on what Snape wanted to do for the cause. He certainly didn’t want to frame himself for Dumbledore’s murder.
(6) The theory explains Dumbledore’s comment on the tower to Draco “Of course he would tell you that Draco, but . . .” If Snape had taken the vow then when confronted by Draco’s statement that Snape had promised his mother to look after him, Dumbledore would have said instead “I’m aware of that Draco, but. . .” This is a big argument by the Snape is evil believers that Snape had not told Dumbledore of the vow, but had lied to Dumbledore and only told Dumbledore that he had told this to Draco to get his trust. That doesn’t make sense. Draco would surely have checked over Christmas break with his mother and Dumbledore would know this. DIATSSISE explains this statement very well. “Of course he would tell you that Draco, but it was really I who took the vow.”
(7) It appears Dumbledore can speak Parseltongue and would want to review conversations between babymort, Voldemort, and Nagani. In the memories in the pensieve there are instances where Parseltongue is spoken. Dumbledore does not ask Harry to translate these conversations, yet it is obvious he knows what is included in these conversations. It appears that Dumbledore can understand Parseltongue. There has to be 1000’s of conversations between Nagani and Voldemort in Wormtail’s presence during the 2 years Wormtail was with Voldemort. Dumbledore explained to Harry how he acquired Morfin’s memory that they viewed. He used legitimacy to scan the memories and then with great difficulty removed the memory for review. It wasn’t until this review that he knew what it contained. Snape can’t understand parseltongue and if it was difficult for Dumbledore to locate and remove Morfin’s important memory, Snape is probably incapable of doing so. If Dumbledore hasn’t confided in Snape about his search for the Horcruxes, then Snape would even know what he is looking for clue to. Dumbledore has to be the one to scan Wormtail’s memories, remove them, and then review them.
(8) Dumbledore’s line about researching his own jam preference if impersonating himself. JKR has Dumbledore use this statement to Harry just a few chapters over. It is made clear that Dumbledore would prepare himself very completely before undertaking any impersonation including researching something as minor as his own jam preference. All the questions asked by Bella are the type of questions that Dumbledore would expect to have to answer if he is interrupted by a death eater while he is at Snape’s house extracting information from Wormtail.
(9) Dumbledore had a reason to try and act like Snape, but Snape would have no reason to try and act like Dumbledore. Some of the things said in Chapter 2 look like something Snape might say. This is true, but there are a lot more Dumbledore like statements in Spinner’s End. If Dumbledore was impersonating Snape in Spinner’s End he has every reason in the world to try and act like and sound like Snape, but if it was Snape in Spinner’s End he would have absolutely no reason to try and sound or act like Dumbledore.
(10) Snape didn’t use the Muffliato Spell on Wormtail. JKR had Snape invent the Muffliato Spell. This is a new spell she made up for HBP and she had Harry use it many times during HBP so we would know how it works. The spell makes a conversation where it can only be heard by the people involved in the conversation. It would have been the perfect spell for Snape to use when Wormtail was trying to listen in to the conversation with the sisters. I see the fact that JKR had Snape invent this spell but not use it when it would have been the perfect spell to use as an intentional clue by JKR to her readers that it was not Snape in Spinner’s End.

(11) The lack of the usual adjectives to describe Snape’s characteristics like curled lip, coldly, etc. Phrases used in Spinner’s end were “replied calmly”, bored, lazily, flatly, etc. which showed a lack of the usual Snape emotions..
(12) Bella’s double take when Snape said he would explain himself. When Snape told Bella he would explain himself, he remarked “Oh yes Bella, I’m going to answer your questions,” JKR made it very clear that Snape was acting totally out of character. He had gone over a year after Voldemort’s return and he hadn’t yet answered these questions to any death eater. If he had, Bella would have already known the answers. It is out of character for Snape to explain himself to her or. anyone.
(13) The only person Snape needed to prove his loyalty to was Voldemort, not the sisters. It makes no sense for Snape to explain himself to anyone but Voldemort. Snape had already convinced Voldemort that he was loyal. When walking up to the house Narcissa tells Bella that Voldemort trust Snape. That is all that matters. Snape would never give Bella the satisfaction of believing that Snape felt it was necessary to explain himself to her. Snape would never explain himself to anyone but Voldemort or Dumbledore.
(14) The simple fact that the scene was included early in the book should cause us to realize that the chapter is not what it seems. JKR never lets us know what is coming before Harry finds out. We find out the truth the same time Harry does. If JKR shows us something early in the book we are always given the wrong impression about what we know. There is no way that JKR would have shown us Snape taking a vow to fulfill Draco’s mission at the start of HBP unless this was misdirection.
(15) The Strange behavior of the Avada Kedavra on the tower is a big claim by the alivers. They very accurately point out how Dumbledore was slouching against the ramparts when Snape hit him in the chest with the Avada Kedavra. Dumbledore was lifted up into the air and pushed backwards slowly over the ramparts. When he was next viewed on the ground his eyes were closed.. JKR has been consistent with all prior uses of the Avada Kedavra. The person always just dropped dead on the spot with no blasting upward or backward and they died with their eyes open. The alivers argue this consistent pattern of the Avada Kedavra for the proposition that the Avada Kedavra was a fake and Snape used a non-verbal spell to move Dumbledore up and off the tower to the ground. This is a good theory, but if Snape took the vow then Snape would be dead from the vow if he didn’t kill Dumbledore and there is the portrait in the headmaster’s office. This is easily understood when you accept DIATSSISE. Snape faked the Avada Kedavra and lowered Dumbledore to the ground with a non-verbal spell where Dumbledore then died from the vow. Snape is totally innocent of any responsibility for Dumbledore’s death.
(16) When Snape answered the door, JKR described him by his physical description. She did not call him by name until he was called Severus by Narcissa and Snape by Bella. If she had told the readers that Snape had answered the door, she would have been lying to her readers. Since it was Dumbledore in Spinner’s End she was forced to introduce Snape to us in this manner. After he was called Snape by the sisters, she was free to call him Snape thereafter without lying to her readers. She did the same thing with fake Moody in GOF.
(17) When JKR was describing Snape she gave a description of Snape’s hair including how it was parted. She did not include “greasy” when she described this hair. The very first adjectives used to describe Snape in SS/PS when Harry first laid eyes on him were “greasy black hair.” Every time that JKR has described Snape’s hair she has included “greasy’ in its description. This is a clear clue that it wasn’t Snape in Spinner’s End.
18) DIATSSISE is consistant with the echo/mirror theory in that in both COS and HBP impersonation was used for the purpose of obtaining information. Harry and Ron in COS to obtain information from Draco, and Dumbldore in HBP to obtain information from Wormtail. In both COS and HBP a person was believed to be at a location for the purpose of spying when they were at the location for a different purpose. In COS Percy was in the dugeoun to be with Penelope, but he was believed to be spying. In HBP Wormtain was present at Spinner's end because Snape had convienced Voldemort to loan him Wormtail as an assistant so Dumbledore could obtain information from him, but he is believed to be spying.
(19) Dumbledore was wearing a black traveling cloak when he arrived to pick up Harry in chapter 3. Dumbledore ususally wears colorful robes. Snape wears black. This is consistant with Dumbledore coming from Spinner's end where he had been impersonating Snape.

The Answer:

When JKR ended HBP, she left us a puzzle. The pieces of the puzzle were clearly defined, but the solution wasn’t obvious. The pieces don’t appear to reconcile or fit together. People have tried to reshape the pieces to make them fit, The alivers argue a loophole in the vow and that when JKR said the portraits were of dead headmaster’s, Dumbledore’s picture wasn’t yet hung. The planned death believers have had to come up with unsupported claims that Dumbledore was dying anyway so Dumbledore wasn’t really asking Snape to damage his soul by committing murder. The Snape is evil believers have to claim that the obvious canon evidence that Dumbledore knew of Draco’s plan and the vow are wrong. By simply accepting the obvious that Snape didn’t act like Snape in Spinner’s End because it wasn’t really him, all the pieces of the puzzle fit perfect and almost magically come together to form the absolute perfect answer to the puzzle. It is very, very unlikely that there could be this many clues (especially the –forgive me- clue) that point to a perfect solution to the puzzle that is really the wrong answer.

One poster described DIATSSISE as being similar to those 3D pictures that were popular a few years back. All you can see at first is the front picture, but if you look at it a different way, a totally different picture emerges. After you finally see the second picture, you wonder why you didn’t see it sooner. Once you see the beauty of DIATSSISE and re-read HBP under this theory, you will view HBP in a totally different perspective. Your expectations on what you are expecting for book 7 will change. You will also find out that there are very few discussions going on in these forums that you wish to join in because you already know the answer, but to discuss your answer people would have to accept DIATSSISE.

Paintball

[Hermaryne]

Interesting theory which brings up some questions. I'd always wondered how Snape could be powerful enough to hoodwink Dumbledore and/or Voldemort. If DIATTSSISE is correct then we'd assume that there was some reason why Snape wasn't able to do the job himself. Was 'Snapeldore' an isolated incidence or were there other cases when this might have occured? I was wondering about the 'great vat of Polyjuice in the dungeon' mentioned by Hermione in HBP. We know that Draco had access to that vat, though was it brewed for another purpose? Glad we have this thread to discuss the implications.

[emmasgoodlookin]

Originally Posted by Paintball

16) When Snape answered the door, JKR described him by his physical description. She did not call him by name until he was called Severus by Narcissa and Snape by Bella. If she had told the readers that Snape had answered the door, she would have been lying to her readers. Since it was Dumbledore in Spinner’s End she was forced to introduce Snape to us in this manner. After he was called Snape by the sisters, she was free to call him Snape thereafter without lying to her readers. She did the same thing with fake Moody in GOF.
(17) When JKR was describing Snape she gave a description of Snape’s hair including how it was parted. She did not include “greasy” when she described this hair. The very first adjectives used to describe Snape in SS/PS when Harry first laid eyes on him were “greasy black hair.” Every time that JKR has described Snape’s hair she has included “greasy’ in its description. This is a clear clue that it wasn’t Snape in Spinner’s End.

I really like these points! They are really good. They have helped me subscribe to this theory.

Originally Posted by Paintball

(12) Bella’s double take when Snape said he would explain himself. When Snape told Bella he would explain himself, he remarked “Oh yes Bella, I’m going to answer your questions,” JKR made it very clear that Snape was acting totally out of character. He had gone over a year after Voldemort’s return and he hadn’t yet answered these questions to any death eater. If he had, Bella would have already known the answers. It is out of character for Snape to explain himself to her or. anyone.

On this one I feel that Dumbledore would know that wouldnt he? He is one of the smartest wizards out there and pretty close to Snape. He would know things Snape would or would not do.

Then I have the ovelying question, why did Dumbledore do that and how did he know Bellatrix and Nessa where gonna come and ask him to do that?

[Tex]

THANK YOU INKWOLF

Where to start? I guess a little houskeeping first. I noticed that the links didn't work in Inkwolf's quote of Paintball's Farewell post. Here are the inks to the "fiaso clue" and the "-forgive me- clue"..

Next, under DIATSSISE, Dumbledore's fate is sealed in chapter 2. He is dead by the end of that school year 1 way or the other: Draco kills him, he kills himself, or he dies from the vow. When you re-read HBP after the acceptance of DIATSSISE so many scenes take on a different perspective and meaning. I didn't think I would need to re-read HBP again, but with this thread now available for discussion I'm going to suggest that we start with chapter 3 and go through the book pointing out how things in each of the chapters are viewed under DIATSSISE.

I AM SO EXCITED

[SiriusAddiction]

Muahahaha! Inkwolf gets much, much love for starting this thread. Now I don't have to sound as if I'm trying to persuade someone to join a cult when I talk about DIATSSISE. xD

I've just started reading HBP again with DIATSSISE in my mind (I started yesterday- Read the first three chapters before I went to bed.) and Spinner's End is so much more interesting- Following every single word in the chapter with this brilliant theory in mind, a lot of things make sense. I'm going to finish the re-read over the weekend. I can imagine... Reading Spinner's End alone and having that excitement, the rest of the book must be awesome. Even if you don't believe DIATSISSE, just try reading Spinner's End with the idea in mind. You'll see that a lot of things begin to make sense. Trust me. If you're skeptical, think about it: Hundreds of thousands of people pushed for Harry/Hermione when the ever-so-obvious clues were there, what's so wrong with considering the possibility of such a detailed, brilliant theory?

It's not like if we're saying Hagrid's umbrella is Dumbledore's Horcrux.

Originally Posted by Emmasgoodlookin

On this one I feel that Dumbledore would know that wouldnt he? He is one of the smartest wizards out there and pretty close to Snape. He would know things Snape would or would not do.

I look at it this way: Dumbledore is such a mysterious and powerful character. We have seen his abilities to perform magic, he excels at everything he does, and his presence is unbelievable. For him to pretend to be someone else? I think that would be rather easy for him. Aside from my views of DIATSISSE, even if Dumbledore wasn't pretending to be Snape, I honestly think that Dumbledore could easily act the part of anyone he knows rather well. He's Dumbledore. Come on.

While trying to portray Snape's personality, Dumbledore also had to convince Bellatrix that he was on the good side. That in itself is unlike Snape. If Dumbledore's going to put his foot in the door (Be polite to Bellatrix), I don't think she'll really notice if he kicks it open (Explains himself to Bellatrix). I think the fact that it flowed altogether, he began with the simple politeness and then the full blow explaination was perfect. He got Bellatrix in a state of mind (she was confused) and he used it to his advantage. Then, by answering her questions, he was feeding her what she wanted. We know how ignorant Voldemort is, and Bellatrix is his most obsessed fangirl (as I like to put it). Only, she's not as intelligent. Information like that, getting answers from Snape... She's so jealous of him, and she's out to get him. She wants to be #1. Getting answers from Snape is right up there on her list along with Voldemort saying "I love you... Will you marry me?" and bearing Voldemort's child. If there was one flaw, one thing she could use against him, she would exploit it. If there wasn't, she would know that she must find another way to get rid of Snape and therefore it would be moving forward.

[emmasgoodlookin]

O.k. its driving me nuts. What excactly is Diatisise? I'm a bit confused. I read the first post but it didnt make to much sense to me.

[SiriusAddiction]

Originally Posted by emmasgoodlookin

O.k. its driving me nuts. What excactly is Diatisise? I'm a bit confused. I read the first post but it didnt make to much sense to me.

DIATSSISE: "Dumbledore Impersonated a Trustworthy Severus Snape in Spinner's End".

It's the abbreviation of the title of the theory that we're discussing.


EDIT: I put "at" instead of "in" because of the title of this thread. It should be as I edited it above. Sorry, folks!

[amal]

I was definitely sceptical at first, but this theory seems to make complete sense. Nothing is off about it when I was re-reading Spinner's End yesterday. I didn't look too much into the out of character Snape during the first read, but it seems like the kind of clues J.K would give.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SiriusAddiction

DIATSSISE: "Dumbledore Impersonated a Trustworthy Severus Snape at Spinner's End".

It's the abbreviation of the title of the theory that we're discussing.

Except Inkwolf changed the title of the original theory of "In Spinner's End" to "at Spinner's End" which would change DIATSSISE to DIATSSASE. I'm so used to DIATSSISE that I'm going to stick with the original title.

[HagathaChristie]

Congratulations, DIATSSISE folks, on getting a thread in which to discuss your theory!

I maybe shouldn't be posting in here because I admit that the theory hasn't really clicked for me since I didn't feel Snape was terribly out-of-character at Spinner's End, but I'll keep reading with interest to see what you all come up with.

Originally Posted by Paintball

Some of the words used by Snape in Spinner’s End are Dumbledore words including “of course”, “fiasco”, and the big one “forgive me”. Here is the post concerning the “fiasco” clue. Here is the post concerning the –forgive me- clue. There is no way Snape would apologize for an insult while he is giving it. Look at all the Snape insults he has thrown out in all 6 books. Never did he include an apology for the insult in the insult. Dumbledore on the other hand included in his insult to Voldemort an apology for the insult in the exact same manner and using the exact same words as well as all the other times he used the exact same words in the exact same way throughout HBP. The inclusion in the insult of an apology for the insult in the exact way Dumbledore had done many times before is considered by me of being an obvious clue and caused me and many others to become convinced the theory was 100% accurate.

Has anyone done an in-depth look at Snape in other books to see if other parallels seem to exist between him and Dumbledore? I certainly see a lot of parallels between Snape and Harry, but haven't spent much time pondering if we're supposed to connect Snape and Dumbledore as well.

[theotherwoman]

Originally Posted by SiriusAddiction

DIATSSISE: "Dumbledore Impersonated a Trustworthy Severus Snape in Spinner's End".

It's the abbreviation of the title of the theory that we're discussing.


EDIT: I put "at" instead of "in" because of the title of this thread. It should be as I edited it above. Sorry, folks!

HA! I thought DIATSSISSE was the name of the original poster and was subsequently scanning over that term. YAY ME!

I love this theory so much! The comment about us never seeing something until Harry sees it is so true. I had thought it a bit strange when I first read HBP but passed it off as JKR simply trying to 'fill out' the rest of the story but when you make such a convincing argument...
I was also particularly fond of the comments about the Muffliato spell not being used. Yes, Snape could've use it on Wormtail (unless he forgot...but Snape seems like he'd remember everything) but it wasn't Snape! Oh! And parts 16 and 17 were genius! It does seem very JKR to find a loophole and milk it for all it's worth, for really, the absence of saying 'Snape' and the greasy descriptions, makes for a pretty tidy loophole...oh JKR, what are we going to do with you?

[arithmancer]

Originally Posted by emmasgoodlookin

O.k. its driving me nuts. What excactly is Diatisise? I'm a bit confused. I read the first post but it didnt make to much sense to me.

The theory is that the night Bella and Cissy showed up at Spinner's End, Dumbledore had taken Polyjuice Potion to look like Snape, and that is the man we saw talking to them. In particular, it means that Dumbledore took the Unbreakable Vow, not Snape. And that means that, on the Tower, when Draco 'seemed unable', it was Dumbledore that was going to be killed by the Vow.

Snape knew all this, because Dumbledore told him, so either he knew that Dumbledore was about to die when he killed him, or Dumbledore had already died when Snape cast the Killing Curse. Snape certainly didn't kill Dumbledore to save himself, because he had not taken the Vow and was thus in no danger from it.

I'm another nonbeliever, but I am also a big fan of the theory anyway. I think it is clever and interesting. I'm glad there is a place to dicuss it again.

[silver ink pot]

I have nothing to add, since I don't subscribe to the theory, yet I celebrate the existence of this thread again.

And . . . Where's Paintball? I'm glad his theory has found a home.

[Phobos]

the only part of this theory that hasn't sold me is why Dumbledore would sacrifice his own life like that, for no particular reason..

[arithmancer]

He either didn't know what Draco's task would be, or didn't think Narcissa would ask him to do it. "Snape" told Narcissa the Dark Lord wanted Draco to do it. He then offered to "help" Draco.

[Phobos]

Originally Posted by zgirnius

He either didn't know what Draco's task would be, or didn't think Narcissa would ask him to do it. "Snape" told Narcissa the Dark Lord wanted Draco to do it. He then offered to "help" Draco.

Hmm, yes, and there he kind of locked himself in to taking the Vow, because he had to keep himself looking good for the REAL Snape's sake.

I was posting in another thread about Dumbledore and the potion he drank, and I realized again how rushed and careless he was to just go charging into the cave with Harry without doing any research beforehand on the area, as Voldemort doesn't seem to have much of a clue about whats going on with his horcruxes (so why rush?). Then I realized! Its because he must have known that the vow would kill him soon, there was no time for dilly dallying, he had to do whatever he could before the vow took him!

[Paintball]

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

I have nothing to add, since I don't subscribe to the theory, yet I celebrate the existence of this thread again.

And . . . Where's Paintball? I'm glad his theory has found a home.

THANK YOU INKWOLF

Where to start?

I think I would like to start with "Why would Dumbledore agree to the vow?" Why would anyone agree to the vow? In the original DIATSSISE thread, Zgirnius posted one of the best breakdowns of the way the vow was presented. She did a wonderful job of showing how Snapledore was led down the rosy path believing he was only going to vow to protect Draco and at the last minute without prior discussion, the 3rd part of the vow was added. Snapledore's hand twitched and then he made the biggest mistake of his life and said "I will." What was he thinking? I just picture his mind racing at 1000 miles per hour trying to instantly decide what to do. Notice how the 3rd part of the vow started with "If necessary" and then the sentence stopped and started over again with "If it seems Draco will fail". Did Dumbledore think the "If necessary" still applied to the vow and this created a loophole because he would never deem killing himself as being necessary. That's what I picture. Like Dumbledore later told Harry: Being rather cleverer then others, his mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger. I think he was referring to this mistake. Huge doesn't even come close to describing this mistake.

Next I would like to just point out that I don't think Dumbledore's impersonation of Snape at Spinner's end was a one time act. Since Wormtail has been around Babymort and Voldemort for almost 2 years, there are a lot of memories that need to be scanned, removed, and then viewed. I suspect that this was just 1 of many such sessions.

I wish my first post on this first thread was more special, but I am so excited on the opportunity to discuss DIATSSISE that I just started typing.

EVERYONE. Even if you haven't accepted DIATISSIE you're welcome to throw in your 2 cents on how something in HBP can be viewed under DIATSSISE. Just use your imagination and pretend you do believe in the theory.

[Phobos]

Perhaps posing as Snape and working for LV is what took up so much of Dumbledore's time, as part of the research for the horcruxes. Do we ever find out how Dumbledore finally deduced that cave to be the place it would be without going there first? It seems like an obvious place but there could be hundreds of places LV could've stuck a piece of his soul during his travels.


*EDIT*

Also, after a little bit of thought, consider this:

Before Dumbledore's death, he is having polite conversation with Malfoy, putting the pieces together, stalling him, etc. Then when it comes around to the topic of Rosmerta being imperiused, Dumbledore finally realizes it, he had never known before this point in time.
Now, if Snape had been in on this plan, wouldn't he have told Dumbledore that Rosmerta was imperiused, so to avoid any possible confrontation or danger? But Snape didn't know about Rosmerta, which means he could have just been pretending to try and help Draco to keep up his image, knowing full well how proud Draco is.
Being a supporter of Snape, I think he would've definitely told Dumbledore about Rosmerta had he known, and he would have known, had it been him who was actually supposed to help Malfoy. However, he didn't; only Dumbledore knew of the true plans, and did not get himself involved in the finer details.

[Inkwolf]

Everyone's thanking me, but it was Jessica who suggested opening a thread for you, and every staff member online enthusiastically agreed.

Have fun!

[mugglemom22]

Originally Posted by Inkwolf

This thread exists for discussing the impact on Book 6 and the future ramifications for Book 7, if the theory is indeed correct.

WooHoo! I am sooo glad this theory has a new thread for discussion. How much can we discuss the future ramifications of Dumbledore's impersonation? Albus must have had a plan to explain everything to Harry and the Order since he had nearly a year to prepare. Can we discuss how those events will play out? Thank you Jessica and Inkwolf!!