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#41
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Hi. I think he used the Goblet, because he was sure that Harry or someone else will touch it when they reach it and didn't use any other portkey.
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#42
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Yep, and also, it would be highlt suspicious if harry went into Moody's office, and never came out again
Plus, until the night of the third task, Voldy wasn't ready with the plan.
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#43
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Surprised though I am that this thread is still going, I will make a small interjection.
Reluctant as I am to accept that the Movies give clues, in the instance of the Cup as Portkey I am prepared to override my normal objection. The function as shown in the film (and in the book) was for the Cup to take Harry to Little Hangleton graveyard for LV's rebirth (part of LV's plan). The return function of the Portkey was then designed to take LV back to the Triwizard Tournament itself in the midst of the spectators. It has been mentioned already, this part of the plan (the return function) failed to serve it's intended purpose and returned Harry to Tournament (book and film actually) instead of LV. My view anyway, Byzantine plot as I mentioned in previous. Potion of Regeneration (as far as we were shown in the book) did not appear complex, although I conced its a possibility it was complex.
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#44
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
I think the Portkey was two-way in order to return Harry to the tournament dead. However first, Voldemort did want Harry's blood (to nullify the love protection), and then he wanted Harry dead since Voldemort did know part of the prophecy. In fact, until he had Harry's blood, he didn't dare try to kill Harry. By returning Harry to the tournament dead, it would have looked like Viktor killed Harry, and no one would have been the wiser. And certainly, no one would have thought that Voldemort did it.
But Voldemort was not ready to be revealed to the world yet, so it was not a Portkey for him to use to return to Hogwarts. If that was the case, anything could have been used anytime, supplied by Fake!Moody. In OotP we are told that Harry suceeded in alerting the Order that Voldemort returned before Voldemort could gather followers and strength, and that gave the Order an advantage.
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Last edited by ComicBookWorm; March 18th, 2007 at 11:38 am. |
#45
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
In respect of this quote, perhaps it would be interesting to wonder why Sirius would know about Lord Voldemort's intentions, vis a vis his disappearing after Harry were killed.
Severus his informant, perhaps?
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![]() Last edited by gavina; March 19th, 2007 at 6:25 am. Reason: typo |
#46
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
It would be easy to make his death look like an accident so the cup was chosen.
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#47
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
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They used Viktor as the fall guy by using the Imperius Curse on him to attack the other contestants, so when they found Harry's body they would suspect Viktor. Otherwise Crouch Jr. could have attacked the other contestants, unseen. He was patrolling the maze and had every opportunity. We can know that Voldemort didn't want anyone to know he was back, since for an entire year following his rebirth, he did not reveal his presence to the public. It was only after he was spotted at the end of OotP that he started making more public attacks. And as for how Sirius knew, they could have gotten the information from Barty Crouch Jr. or Snape.
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Last edited by ComicBookWorm; March 19th, 2007 at 12:43 pm. |
#48
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My opinion of course, and others are free to theirs ![]()
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#49
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Sirius didn't need to hear the information from Snape. He could have heard it from Dumbledore who heard it from Snape. Or Snape could have revealed it in an Order meeting. We have a canon quote, and it wasn't made idly by Sirius. He was discussing it along with Bill, Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, Tonks, and Lupin. I doubt that several members of the Order were all mistaken about this. In fact, they referred to this as being Dumbledore's opinion too.
We also have the logic that it would have been dangerous for Voldemort to appear in front of all those people (including Dumbledore) at the tournament, and Voldemort isn't stupid. Showing off in front of his DEs in a secluded graveyard that he can kill Harry is rather cowardly, not showy. He knew that Harry didn't have the powers or dueling ability he had. Let's try the entire quote in context. It clearly explains that Harry foiled Voldemort's plans and why. He wanted to kill Harry and not set off any manhunts for him or anyone else. So if Harry was supposedly killed by Viktor, no one would be the wiser. Otherwise they wouldn't have needed to set Viktor up as the fall guy. But some opinions have stronger canon support than others. I have a rather long passage in OotP to support my opinion. BTW, this is settled canon. There is nothing that will be changed or gained by learning another reason why the portkey was two-way. This is the canon explanation. We can't shoot it down by claiming that Sirius was mistaken (especially since the room was filled with Order members who all agreed with Sirius), because otherwise, we would need a good reason for this to be incorrect. We have a rather long passage explaining it. If we hadn't been given that passage, things might be different.
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Last edited by ComicBookWorm; March 20th, 2007 at 6:08 am. |
#50
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Using the Tri-Wizard Cup accomplished a lot of things for Voldemort - apart from a Byzantine plot and an extra 600 pages of Potter drama.
It was predictable - They knew it was coming and that they could arrange for Harry to be the one to touch it first. Not only was Barty Jr. helping him, but so were his friends and teachers. They were all so concerned that someone wanted him in the competition so he'd be killed that they were all working to help him win. In that light, when Harry touched the cup, traveled to the grave yard, and was transported back dead, their fears would have been confirmed. Whoever put his name in the cup got what they were after - Harry died in the competition. No suspicion raised - Voldemort is free to operate in secret the way he likes it - out of the public eye and without Ministry interference. They'd probably be off trying to pin Harry's murder on Sirus Black. Voldemort and Barty Jr. knew the three tasks based on info they got from Jorkins and also from Barty Sr. They were also controlling him for a long stretch of the year until he escaped and was murdered by his son. In the bigger picture of Voldemorts return to power, controlling a high level ministry official would have been worth the wait to get to Harry. Barty Jr. only planned on staying a year however - so I think he was supposed to see this plot through and then return to Voldemort's service - not as Moody, but as Barty. I also like what people are saying about the portkey creation. The portkeys we've seen used, apart from the Tri-Wizard Cup, were either created by the ministry or Dumbledore. And the ones we've seen Dumbledore make departed from or arrived in his office. I think there's something significant about the teapot portkey creation when the Weasleys and Harry went to 12 Grimauld. Dumbledore sent Phineas Nigellus to ask permission for the destination from Sirius. Perhaps you can't make a portkey without permission from the destination - so a portkey to Hogwarts would take Dumbledore's approval, and that's what keeps enemies from being able to portkey onto the grounds. Since Barty Jr. was already on the grounds it's likely he was able to make it a round trip portkey without Dumbledore's permission. ? Food for thought. I have to agree that the return trip was intended for a lifeless Potter. No way would someone presumed dead for 14 years, newly returned to physical form, and struggling for supporters pop up in front of his most feared and hated enemy and the heads of the Ministry to announce his return. Sure he'd scare them all - but he'd also alert them all and mobilize not only the Order, but the Ministry and the rest of the wizarding world. |
#51
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
The triwizard Cup portkey had the return function simply to return Harry's body back into the maze. Then, there would be no evidence at all harry ever left the maze. it was designed to keep secret Voldemort's return.
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#52
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
One other question on this subject: Wouldn't the people watching the task realize that Harry had disappeared for some time? Weren't the spectators sitting up in the Quidditch seats? Couldn't they see into the maze? Harry was away for a fairly long time. Wouldn't they notice?
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#53
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Quote:
Quote:
actually, here's some canon: Quote:
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#54
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Quote:
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#55
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
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This has come up before. One of the reasons that many think canon is open to interpretation and should not be considered as rigid lore. It also made no sense to have spectators for the second task in the lake. How could they see the bottom where the merpeople reside? Unless there's some kind of CCTV of which we are so far unaware, but that is extremely implausible. ![]() Speculation is often better than accumulation I find ![]() My earlier suggestion of LV appearing in the maze was simply speculation, a little fun, if you like. I am rarely serious unless working in the real world ![]()
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![]() Last edited by gavina; April 9th, 2007 at 4:39 am. |
#56
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
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#57
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
The Music Man, it was vaguely familiar, but I looked it up.
"I don't know about you, but I'd like to make today worth remembering." As it continues ![]()
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#58
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
I suppose Voldemort wanted to show how clever he was by doing it in front of everyone at the maze, which is alot, and doing it right under everyone's nose just to show off.
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#59
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Voldemort didn't want anyone to know he was back yet. Harry ruined that by surviving. We were told that by Sirius and a roomful of Order members in OotP.
He wanted Harry's blood and he wanted Harry dead, and he didn't want anyone to know he was back yet. They set up Viktor to take the blame for Harry's death. He had already attacked Cedric. The idea was to kill Harry and send him back to the maze, and then poor Viktor would be blamed. Then Voldemort could work in secret gaining followers and power until he was ready to reveal himself.
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Last edited by ComicBookWorm; April 11th, 2007 at 11:12 am. |
#60
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Re: Why didn't Voldemort use some other Portkey in GoF?
Whatever was supposed to have happened or what was planned to have happened or otherwise is hardly likely to be revealed in DH, and consequently will be of little interest to the conclusion of the series.
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