Book 7 Title Released - Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows V.2

[Kidney Pie]

Do you think Harry will ever have to go into the underground? I have a feeling a horcrux could be right in Gringots. I mean, we saw it and Harry couldn't even remember how to get to his tomb..right left right left left right...he lost track. Then it is cold, "bottomless" pits..well it is so deep you can't see the bottom in some places...dragons..I mean Gringotts would be a great place to hide one. You could fall, get trapped, run out of air..or anything. Maybe Deathly Hallows are some place under the ground in Gringots where something is. Maybe different sections of the bank have different names.

[Operawhat]

I like the anagram game. How about this:

H, lead all thy woes.

[sirius892]

Originally Posted by SKasparRollins

Are you sure the graveyard isn't where they placed Dumbledore's tomb? Mind you, I don't think it would be important that the graveyard was in a specific place if that were true...

I was listening to HBP yesterday and McGonagall or someone said that Dumbledore would be the first person to be buried at Hogwarts. So the tomb is on the Hogwarts grounds.

[marianna58]

Originally Posted by soxykitty

Hmm so this got me thinking... I remember something about one of the directors for the movies wanted to put a graveyard somewhere on the Hogwarts ground to pretty much take up space, but Jo told him he couldn't because there was a graveyard that went somewhere specific. Well, we haven't seen this graveyard in any of the books so far, so perhaps the new title might have something to do with this graveyard we have yet to see.

Great call on that graveyard!

I'm so one of the people sticking with this idea of the former book six title possibilities having to do with the title of book seven.

Your idea of bringing up that graveyard has added on to a great theory!

[sirius892]

Originally Posted by Kidney Pie

Do you think Harry will ever have to go into the underground? I have a feeling a horcrux could be right in Gringots. I mean, we saw it and Harry couldn't even remember how to get to his tomb..right left right left left right...he lost track. Then it is cold, "bottomless" pits..well it is so deep you can't see the bottom in some places...dragons..I mean Gringotts would be a great place to hide one. You could fall, get trapped, run out of air..or anything. Maybe Deathly Hallows are some place under the ground in Gringots where something is. Maybe different sections of the bank have different names.

I never thought about that. good one!

[Dinahsaur]

Okies, I know this discussion spans many pages, so forgive me if what I say has been mentioned before and I just missed it...

When we look at JKR's writing style, we need to take into account absolutely every possibility. She would not have chosen this title if it only had one side to it. For example, Hallows, when pronounced out loud, is a homophone of Hollow(s), which very easily could be a reference to Godric's Hollow which we expect is going to be one of Harry's first stops once he turns 17. This is the place of his parents' deaths, and, as many have pointed out, their deaths took place on Hallow's Eve. In just that simple way, we see that JKR is going to be testing us with this title.

There has been much discussion that Hallows is in reference to the Horcruxes. However, an item that is hallowed is holy. A Horcrux is an abomination of the soul. A torn fragment, dismantled from the rest of the soul as a direct result of purposeful homicide. I don't see how the Deathly Hallows can be directly referring to the most disgustingly horrible, unholy thing JKR created in the world of Harry Potter. Besides, we already know the book is going to have a focus on Horcruxes, I just don't see how the title is showing that, as others seem to.

I do agree, however, with the possibility of reference to the Veil through which Sirius fell. Yes, it is death and we don't know what is on the other side, but that is exactly why I believe we are going to find out. A key rule when reading JKR is to notice when anything is interrupted, because that means we had the chance to learn something important, but JKR decided it wasn't time for that information to be released. Harry didn't exactly want to leave the archway when he first found it. He heard whispering and was forced to leave.

Something else to consider in reference to the Hallows is what the Veil had been used for. Even though the other side remained a mystery, that room was an execution chamber. Sound anything like a Gallows (Gallows/Hallows... almost the same word!)? And not to mention, JKR just happened to have us guess the title of the book by playing Hang Man. Coincidence? I think not!

JKR is a master at throwing hints at us that we look over. I think that the title, beyond referring to James and Lily and their deaths, is most specifically telling us that the Veil and the archway will come into play and that they are important.

As a follow-up. I have just begun my extensive thinking on why she specifically chose the word Deathly. We all have been meditating so hard on the word Hallows through our l(myself included) lack of real understanding of the word prior to our focus on it. Let us think on ways in which we encounter the word Deathly.

-Deathly ill?

[_Smidgett]

(I haven't read many of the posts, sorry for any repeated stuff!)

Hahaha Yay I finally have an abbreviation to use instead of book 7. DH. I like it

Well, here I go.

I went on a dictionary.com search.. cause I'm cool like that

death·ly [deth-lee]
–adjective
1. causing death; deadly; fatal.
2. like death: a deathly silence.
3. of, pertaining to, or indicating death; morbid: a deathly odor from the sepulcher.
–adverb
4. in the manner of death.
5. very; utterly: deathly afraid.

hal·low (hâl'ô)
hal·lowed, hal·low·ing, hal·lows
1. To make or set apart as holy.
2. To respect or honor greatly; revere.

And I also found, on the subject of Hallow:

("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year, when the Veil Between the Worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworld; the final Harvest festival

Okay, so I know a lot of people have mentioned the Veil but here I go...

The part "the Veil Between the Worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to Earth".. Sirius. Those voices that Luna and Harry heard. So I agree with the people here who said that the Deathly Hallows could be referring to the people behind the veil...and something to do with the Horcruxes. If the veil grows thin, they could either find a way out of Death or be able to communicate (somehow) with those still alive. I think I remember reading somewhere that JKR said the two-way mirrors will be making another appearance, maybe on Halloween when the border between Death and Life is thin, Harry & Sirius will be able to communicate. And if the dead can find a way back for just one night, they could help Harry find & destroy Horcruxes.

Maybe. Although I'm probably wrong, Lol.

All I know for sure is, this is going to be an interesting book!

[harryhugger]

The title can have multiple meanings. "Hallow" can refer to All Hallows Eve (Halloween) or if something is hallowed (being holy). The "deathly" part is confusing. Why "deathly" instead of "deadly"? Well, according to Dictonary.com, both have the same general definition (to cause death), but "deathly" seems to refer more to "having the physical appearance to death". So, since there is a big difference between causing death and having the physical appearance of death, could it mean that some one has the appearance of death (is thought to be dead), but actually isn't? We know that it's not Dumbledore or Sirius (we think, I don't really know what Jo said about Sirius, I just know that she can't bring back characters that are "properly dead"), so how about R.A.B.?

[Dinahsaur]

Originally Posted by Kidney Pie

Do you think Harry will ever have to go into the underground? I have a feeling a horcrux could be right in Gringots. I mean, we saw it and Harry couldn't even remember how to get to his tomb..right left right left left right...he lost track. Then it is cold, "bottomless" pits..well it is so deep you can't see the bottom in some places...dragons..I mean Gringotts would be a great place to hide one. You could fall, get trapped, run out of air..or anything. Maybe Deathly Hallows are some place under the ground in Gringots where something is. Maybe different sections of the bank have different names.

Definitely an interesting idea, I like it. But what would be the motivation for him to hide a Horcrux in Gringott's? I don't think we know enough about Voldemort's history connected to it prior to his attacking the Potters. However, if we find anything out, then I think it would be a very cool place to find a Horcrux!

[rickoakley]

Ok, so I might have stumbled accross some interesting news about the "Deathly Hallows" title, or I could be repeating something which another member has posted earlier on in the thread.

Anyway, I Googled a few searches to do with Hallows and came up with an interesting definition from Arthurian legend, which we know JK has quoted in the past:

"The Hallows across most legends are seen to represent the royal regalia carried by the King, or the objects sought by someone such as a 'Grail Quester' (See Grail Knights) in both ancient and modern stories."

The source then goes on to explain a little about the "Hallows of Ireland" as below:

The sacred vessels, or 'Hallows of Ireland' were believed to have been brought by the 'Tuatha de Danaan' (See Tuatha de Danaan) to Ireland and kept in the 'Crane Bag', visible at high tide only. Four people were responsible for guarding the contents, known as 'Guardians of the Hallows' : 'Manannan' (See Manannan), 'Lugh' (See Lugh), 'Cumhal' (See Cumhal), 'Fionn' (See Fionn). When it was first in Manannan's care it contained:

Manannan's House;
Goibniu's shirt, belt, knife and smith's hook;
King of Lochlann's Helmet;
King of Alba's Shears;
A Belt made from fish skin;
Asal's pig's bones.

Later the Tuatha de Danaan were believed to be a people who were said to have brought sacred treasures from an island near Greece to Ireland from the Otherworld (See Otherworld). There were said to be four treasures:

1. Shining spear of Lugh (from Gorias), providing victory in any fight;
2. Stone of Fal (from Falias), kings were crowned on this;
3. Sword of Nuadu (from Findias), impossible to avoid being struck and wounded by its contact;
4. Cauldron of Dagda (from Murias), of plenty. (See Dagda), (See Bran the Blessed).
The four hallows of the Tuatha de Danaan were developed in later traditions to be:

1. The Pole of Combat;
2. The Sword of Light;
3. The Cauldron of Cure;
4. The Stone of Destiny.

These have since been further developed to the four symbols of magical elements, to also be seen on Tarot packs as the four suits:

1. The Sword;
2. The Spear;
3. The Cup;
4. The Pentacle.

So...

I still haven't figured out exactly how this fits in with Harry but I think this is quite a good definition of what the Hallows might be.

However, perhaps in the last book not only will Harry have to search for and destroy each of the remaining Horcruxes, but also find some kind of weapon of magical origin with which he can kill Voldemort. This would support the theory that Harry must have to kill Voldemort with something other than his wand because of the Priori Incantatem effect

Could it be the sword of Gryffindor? I don't think so. A spear? I'm not so sure. A suit of armour perhaps? He'll have to get Peeves out of it first!

Anyway, please let me know what you think of my ideas so far :o)

Richardoakley@gmail.com

[Shackleton]

After reading through lots of these posts, I've formulated a pretty firm idea in my head. A bit of a hodgepodge of ideas floating around.

Given the Cuaron quote about JK telling him that a gravesite would be on the Hogwarts grounds in a later book, it certainly makes sense that it could be the "deathly hallows". A sacred gravesite.

It also makes a lot of sense that the 4 founders would be buried there. Voldemort, being obsessed with the founders, may well have a plan for that graveyard. With DD out of the way, perhaps DH will crescendo into a final battle between Harry and Voldemort that takes place at the graveyard?

Either way, with the likelihood that the title of DH points to the Hogwarts graveyard, it seems likely that the students will indeed be returning to Hogwarts. Of course, I remember JK saying early on in the series that there would be seven books, one for each year at Hogwarts. If the last year didn't take place at Hogwarts, that statement wouldn't make sense.

Thoughts?

[Dinahsaur]

Originally Posted by rickoakley

There were said to be four treasures:

1. Shining spear of Lugh (from Gorias), providing victory in any fight;
2. Stone of Fal (from Falias), kings were crowned on this;
3. Sword of Nuadu (from Findias), impossible to avoid being struck and wounded by its contact;
4. Cauldron of Dagda (from Murias), of plenty. (See Dagda), (See Bran the Blessed).
The four hallows of the Tuatha de Danaan were developed in later traditions to be:

1. The Pole of Combat;
2. The Sword of Light;
3. The Cauldron of Cure;
4. The Stone of Destiny.

These have since been further developed to the four symbols of magical elements, to also be seen on Tarot packs as the four suits:

1. The Sword;
2. The Spear;
3. The Cup;
4. The Pentacle.

Ooh! What if these are pointing us in the direction of what the Horcruxes are? Think of it this way... The cup/cauldron we can see as Hufflepuffs teacup, the stone/pentacle is Slytherin's locket (perhaps?), what if the sword really is Gryffindor's? Of course, there's plenty of discussion as to how it would be possible for Voldemort to have accomplished that, but what could the pole/spear be referring to? Any ideas?

[kangamoo]

all of this stuff has been discussed before in past pages.

try looking around page 12 and then in the thirties/forties.

[rich_505]

Originally Posted by Dinahsaur

Ooh! What if these are pointing us in the direction of what the Horcruxes are? Think of it this way... The cup/cauldron we can see as Hufflepuffs teacup, the stone/pentacle is Slytherin's locket (perhaps?), what if the sword really is Gryffindor's? Of course, there's plenty of discussion as to how it would be possible for Voldemort to have accomplished that, but what could the pole/spear be referring to? Any ideas?

Earlier a few members discussed the possibilities of Voldemort having made the sword into a Horcrux. However it was pretty much discounted as he would have to have done it when he asked for the DADA job which would have meant making a Horcrux right in front of Dumbledore; and it's very unlikely that Dumbledore would miss something like that right under his nose!

[Spritey]

Originally Posted by kangamoo

all of this stuff has been discussed before in past pages.

try looking around page 12 and then in the thirties/forties.

I think that's pretty much a given. This stuff came up in version 1, too - but that doesn't mean that people won't come up with new insights on it, does it?

[MournForSirius]

Too many thoughts!!! EEK! Ah well, we won't know til it comes out.... *sniff*

[HarryForGinny]

Originally Posted by irishdancer34

I see what you mean ,I just think that having a book released on that day isn't disrespectfull of what happened. Anyway, it's up to JKR to decide.

Suki
Hallowed can refer to an object that is held in great reverance or importance. I'm not quite sure you could use it to mean the horcruxes, though. Usually, in that context it would be an adjective to something else, not a noun. But I could be wrong.

I'm obviously coming into this thread about a thousand posts late, but anyway...

I seriously can't see any publisher in either the US or the UK agreeing to release this book on 9/11. It would be a PR disaster. But why even take a chance on it? Doesn't make any sense.

Hallowed can also mean sanctified, as in "Gettysburg is hallowed ground." But in the title it is a noun, so it has to be analyzed in that context. There is another thread that was just started (lost track of the title, sorry) that started off by linking "hallows" to Arthurian legends. An intriguing (to me, anyway) connection, because of two of the Weasley names: Arthur and Ginny, nickname for Ginevra, the Italian version of Guinevere, King Arthur's wife.

[rich_505]

Originally Posted by Spritey

I think that's pretty much a given. This stuff came up in version 1, too - but that doesn't mean that people won't come up with new insights on it, does it?

Exactly, that's the only way we're going to get to a fully developed and viable theory

[HayCharms]

Isn't there a meaning related to the respect connotation of hallows? That is, along with deathly, it could simply mean last respects... For the characters who pass in book seven, for those who were killed for horcuxes, for those who suffered or died fighting Li'l Tommy Riddle's tantrum (Oh, be quiet Ron!) for the series... Without diminishing the other possible meanings, I am guessing that Rowling must feel that way about the last book given interview comments over the years.

[Dinahsaur]

Originally Posted by rich_505

Earlier a few members discussed the possibilities of Voldemort having made the sword into a Horcrux. However it was pretty much discounted as he would have to have done it when he asked for the DADA job which would have meant making a Horcrux right in front of Dumbledore; and it's very unlikely that Dumbledore would miss something like that right under his nose!

I realise that and saw some of the discussion on the topic. I'm just throwing ideas out there and seeing if they connect.

Another possibility could be that things are not literal (sort of like my pentacle/stone into locket idea) and perhaps could refer to some sort of weapon that Voldemort used as another would have used a sword... ? It would be poetic of JKR if it was some sort of quill... "The pen is mightier than the sword" sort of thing. *ilh* :P