Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows - General Speculation and Opinions v3

[kingwidgit]

No spoilers allowed in these areas. Please make sure you've read our Deathly Hallows Conduct Notice!


Time for a new thread, so let the speculation continue.

What does the new title Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows mean? Is it a place? A group of people?

Main theories from Version 1:    

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Halloween All Hallow's Eve Harry's parents died could involve 2 "Hallow's Eves" - the one that started it all and one where it all ends The Veil Hallows = All Hallow's Eve, where the veil between worlds is thin Sirius behind the veil Hallow can mean "hallo" - signifying the tempting voices coming from behind the veil Deathy Hallows could = the place beyond the veil A Place Godric's Hollow A graveyard A battlefield An object Something to get rid of Voldemort Saints/Spirits Hallows can = Saints - has been translated as "Saints" in Dutch "Deathly Saints" could signify guardians of horcruces/hunters of horcruces "Deathly Spirits" could link back to the veil The Founders Other registered names include Hallows of Hogwarts - set in the school/about it The "Saints" could refer to the founders The Four Hallows of Arthurian legend show symbols very similar to tarot symbols - which in turn are pretty similar to the House Founder horcruxes, or the elements of the Founders themselves Horcruxes The Four Hallows idea could allude to the horcruxes Hallowed = holy/venerated, so could mean the places where Voldemort hides his horcruxes "Deathly Hallows" could show the process how Harry will destroy the horcruxes (I have no "ecks" button) Other people/creatures Ghosts A new object/character/creature Inferi Banshees A group of people e.g. Death Eaters, guardians of horcruxes Dementors Working titles in other translations

VERSION 1
VERSION 2

Added by leenielou:

This thread is now for generalised discussion of such topics as whether you like the title or not, what you think it could mean and suggestion of new theories. We now have new, separate threads for the four most popular theories:

Theories Relating to the Four Hallows of Arthurian Legend
Theories Relating to People & Places
Theories on the Veil and Beyond
Theories Relating to Halloween.

For detailed discussion of these theories and speculation, please see those threads. This thread is not the place for in-depth debate!

[warriordragon]

I looked up something on the history of Halloween (link is below.) One of the things I considered most relevant to the HP series was the Celts believing that the presence of dead people made it easier to make predictions about the future. Call me crazy, but I can see Trelawny making a third prediction. I also agree with everyone who mentions the relation of the Veil to DH.

http://www.history.com/minisites/hal...age?pageId=713

[nikkiluvsdan]

Hallows:

* name used by some traditions for Samhain, or Halloween
crypt.eldritchs.com/wicca/glossary.html

* ("holy" or "holy night") the Oct. 31 Greater Sabbat, also called November Eve, the Celtic Samhain ("sow-en"); the beginning of the Celtic winter, and of the Celtic year; the beginning of the Witches' Year, when the Veil Between the Worlds grows thin and the spirits of the dead may return to Earth; the Descent of the Goddess to the Underworld; the final Harvest festival
www.ravenquest.net/WyldeWoods/h.html

Look at the second definition, it metions something about a veil growing thiner separating the world of the leaving and the dead. Remember in Book 5 that serious went throught the Veil and died. I don't think we've seen the last of him. Though maybe flesh and bone Sirius will return, he might return as some kind of echo like James and Lily did in GoF and help Harry.

[ModernInkling]

Thanks for the new thread

Originally Posted by wiccawise21

also... one of the 13 hallows was a cloak that made the user invisible. another was a special knife. then there was one about a horse. could harry already have the hallows in his possesion? or maybe some of them? (the invisibility cloak, sirius's knife, thestrals?) and the remaining hallows could be the horcruxes?

That's very interesting! I didn't think of looking for "hallows" that we might have already encountered... I suppose I should check that out.

Since an old title for book 6 was "The Hallows of Hogwarts" maybe all of them would have to be there? But, we should definitely be careful in taking too much from legends; JKR is sure to have changed at least some things, even if the "hallows" are the 13 hallows.

[einstien]

I think it has something to do with Holloween.....or....Godric ''HOLLOW''......
There might be some secret kept at the GODRIC HOLLOW....
As I type this....I imagine of some secret passages from that house...leading to some REALLY HIDDEN(even to the wizardin world!!) places...and 'Deathly' comes from the obscured nature of the place....as we know anything HIDDEN always has something to do with life threatening things...

In addition to this.....there might be a great possibility of the name's connection with the veil in the department of mysteries......(as mentiond by tane)..

[nikkiluvsdan]

Yeah, Trelawney may do some predicitions in the next book. She's predicted important stuff in the past so who says she won't this time.

[JBG]

It is interesting that a special knife and an invisibility cloak should be in the list.

Two of the theories from the old post were that the Sword of Gryffindor and/or the Invisibility Cloak might have been made horcruxes...

My own contribution was to consider that the titles tend to show JK's means to reach the end, not the end itself: i.e. the devices she uses to get Harry to the denouement, rathern than the denouement itself. Best examples are the Philosopher's Stone and the Goblet of Fire. The overall best example is the Goblet, because that *quite literally* gets Harry to the big finish.

[pensievepeter]

Let's keep to the topic of what "the Deathly Hallows" could be.

It's kinda remeniscent of Robin Hood and the Prince of Theives (if any of you ever saw it, has Kevin Costner, Morgan Freeman, and Alan Rickman in it), where Sherwood Forest is supposed to be haunted. Perhaps the Hallows, like Voldemorts name, has a sort of deathly lore around it, and Harry must explore it for himself and utilize it in his fight against Voldemort somehow. Possibly a hiding place for a Horcrux, or a safehaven and base of operations for Harry?

[warriordragon]

What about this? *Deathly* Hallows. And Harry is planning to go see his parents' graves. Maybe there is some connection.

[nikkiluvsdan]

Curious Fact:

The title was released December 21 (winter solstice). There's a part in Book 5 or 6 where it says "...and at the solstice will come the new, and none will come after..." could this possibly be related to the release date?

Hey, think of this Godrics Hollow, Godric Gryffindor. Godric's Hollow might have something to do with his Horcrux item and think of his last name, Gryffindor. It may sound wicked but it sounds Griffin-door.

Gryffindor- Griffin-door
Slythering- Slith-ring
Ravenclaw- Raven's-claw
Hufflepuff- Dunno

[JBG]

Over at the Leaky Cauldron they're making a big thing of the Dutch translation potentially refering to a sanctuary, shrine, tomb or group of saints. This would tend towards Dumbledore's tomb.

But since the English is in the plural it would imply either the horcruxes or another group of things/people.

[FaceofBoe]

Originally Posted by JBG

Over at the Leaky Cauldron they're making a big thing of the Dutch translation potentially refering to a sanctuary, shrine, tomb or group of saints. This would tend towards Dumbledore's tomb.

But since the English is in the plural it would imply either the horcruxes or another group of things/people.

That depends on whether it refers to one place, or several places. "Deathly hallows" could, perhaps, refer to the resting places of the Horcruxes. Or if it is the world beyond the veil, are there sacred "cities" of the dead there - deathly hallows?

[JBG]

I don't think JK would take Harry beyond the Veil in so literal a sense in this book - it would be a complete departure from the rest of the series and could very well come across as being contrived. It would be far too His Dark Materials, and besides, she has taken great pains to say that once you're dead, you're dead, as in DEAD dead. You can leave a ghost, but ghosts aren't dead.

To take Harry beyond the Veil would be beyond the pail, so to speak.

[nikkiluvsdan]

The Deathly Hallows could perfectly be the places where the remaining Horcruxes remain. This theory seems likely because it fits perfectly with the next task. Harry needs to find the
remaining Horcruxes.

Some people say "hallow" means to make spiritually whole. Harry is making Voldemort spiritually whole in some way. When he destroys his six Horcruxes, his soul won't be scattered around the world, instead it will all be in his body, like a normal human. Then, he would vulnerable to death. Now, this hallow action, of making spiritually hallow, would be deathly to him because it would surely kill him.

[warriordragon]

I'm not so sure about the Deathly Hallows referring to the Horcruxes. In all the other book titles, only two were referred to in a previous book (Prisoner of Azkaban aka Sirius Black mentioned in SS/PS and the Half-Blood Prince was a character in all books.) I think that the hallows might be the places where Harry and Voldemort will have their final fight (I think that the final battle will happen in more than one place.)

[Fury]

Something just came to me, and I am not sure if this has been discussed. Perhaps "Deathly Hallows" is the name of a location. If it is, it sounds pretty creepy and grim, but the title itself screams CREEPY!

If you think about it, it could very well be the name of a location. Many books have had weird names for places. And while I think this, I don't think Hallow means Hollow. It is close to spelling with Hollow, but many words are close to other words in spelling and mean a totally different thing.

Of course, Hallow could mean Hallowed ground, but those are usually protected. Of course, it could mean a graveyard as well... maybe it is the location of where Voldemort and Harry will duel.

ETA: I think it is easy to predict that this last book will be a very grim and dark book. Perhaps the darkest of them all. But of course, that could be obvious anyway.

[FaceofBoe]

Originally Posted by JBG

I don't think JK would take Harry beyond the Veil in so literal a sense in this book - it would be a complete departure from the rest of the series and could very well come across as being contrived. It would be far too His Dark Materials, and besides, she has taken great pains to say that once you're dead, you're dead, as in DEAD dead. You can leave a ghost, but ghosts aren't dead.

Philip Pullman didn't invent the idea, though. It's a motif used again and again in mythology, the idea that the hero must journey through the underworld at some point, literally or metaphorically (Darth Vader went to a lava planet; Aragorn went through the Paths of the Dead). Psychologically, it's got its origins in the mid-life crisis - the hero has to realise that one day he will die, and overcome that fear. Using the journey to the underworld would not be plagiarism by any stretch of the imagination - it would merely be Jo writing what the collective unconscious "programs" her to write, in order to tell a complete emotional journey for her hero.

She has indeed said that once you are dead, you remain dead - which means we might travel with Harry to the world beyond the veil, and leave him there, as Evanna Lynch suggested in the latest Pottercast. But of course, it has been set up that you can't return - possibly to retain the shock of Harry being the first to manage it?

Still, I do think it's more likely that they are either Horcruxes or related objects ("hallows" of the founders), or the places the Horcruxes are hidden.

Originally Posted by nikkiluvsdan

Some people say "hallow" means to make spiritually whole. Harry is making Voldemort spiritually whole in some way. When he destroys his six Horcruxes, his soul won't be scattered around the world, instead it will all be in his body, like a normal human. Then, he would vulnerable to death. Now, this hallow action, of making spiritually hallow, would be deathly to him because it would surely kill him.

The problem here is that a verb like "hallows" (as in "makes sacred") cannot follow the word "deathly" - it would need to be Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallowings. "Hallows" has to be a noun - a place (or places), a set of objects or a group of people.

[durre_b]

Originally Posted by nikkiluvsdan

Gryffindor- Griffin-door
Slythering- Slith-ring
Ravenclaw- Raven's-claw
Hufflepuff- Dunno

hehehehehee....
helgas powder puff

i had a question, when harry destroys a horcrux, does LVs soul go back to him or is it destroyed also?

[leenielou]

ATTENTION PLEASE.

I have just added this to the first post:


This thread is now for generalised discussion of such topics as whether you like the title or not, what you think it could mean and suggestion of new theories. We now have new, separate threads for the four most popular theories:

Theories Relating to the Four Hallows of Arthurian Legend
Theories Relating to People & Places
Theories on the Veil and Beyond
Theories Relating to Halloween.

For detailed discussion of these theories and speculation, please see those threads. This thread is not the place for in-depth debate!

The title of this thread has now changed to reflect the new purpose of this thread.

Thank you

[JBG]

Durre_b, the generally accepted result is the destruction of that bit of soul. Remember Riddle's anguish just before he vanished?

And I like the idea of the Evil Possessed Powder Puff.


For the record I think the new title is complete pants (i.e.: lame).